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This is Irene Rues interviewing Mrs. Esther Franco on September 4th, 1981. The interview is being conducted at the main library located at 311 East 12th Street in Kansas City, Missouri. Mrs. Franco is the director for the Kansas City School District for elementary counselors K through 6,

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and The bilingual program K through 12 and director of the ESS ESAA Elementary magnet programs. This is Franco. By way of beginning our interview, would you give me, uh, some information about your early life, like where you were born and when. All right. I was born

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in, in, uh, Detroit, Michigan. 1926. Uh, I was there for the 1st 5 years of my life. I then uh went with my father and mother whose name are Senor and Senora Salvador Salcedo. To Pasadena, California, where my formal education took place. All right, now just

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to go back a bit, you gave your, your family names. Now, uh, were they originally from there or from Mexico or elsewhere? Just give us something. My father came age 18 from Mexico. To Los Angeles in 1921. Uh, my mother came in 1922 to Pasadena College

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as a as a student from Coban, Guatemala, Central America. And that's where your father and that's where they both met in Los Angeles Los Angeles. All right, and, um, how about how large a family did you have? I mean, how many brothers did you mother and

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my father had uh 10 children, so you're one of 1. So we were 6 girls and 4 boys and all living, all living. That's interesting. I imagine they're in a, in a, in several cities and maybe scattered. Not really, not really. I have one sister who

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lives in San Juan, Puerto Rico with her husband and child. Another sister that lives in Kettering, Ohio, outside of Dayton with her husband and two girls, and myself. I have a brother that is now Part of the Reagan administration in Washington DC. With his wife and

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two daughters and son, but other than that, the rest of the family is, uh, within the surrounding area in California, Los Angeles, California. OK, so you did, in other words, you did reside there in, in, in California for a number of years that you lived in

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one particular neighborhood, or did you move around quite a bit? I, uh, moved around quite a bit, uh, because my father was a minister for the Church of the Nazarene. So, uh, this, this was one of the things that, uh, we did. The church itself, who

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has the international headquarters here in Kansas City, Missouri, uh, usually makes the moves and so I went to many parts of California. You're like the military. They send you different places and you go where they tell you to go. But is there, uh, uh, any neighborhood

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maybe when you were. Kool-Aid that stands out in your mouth, mind, or that you, um, you know, maybe the different neighborhoods where you have lived. Is there a picture that comes to your mind? There's a, there's a definite picture of where I live. Uh, they tell

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me now that it's called the inner city. Inner city. Uh, or the ghetto. But uh we were always within the Hispanic community and of course um Mexican American would probably be the word we now are calling them the Chicano communities and so that's very vivid in

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my mind that that's this is where I lived. Did you grow up speaking both Spanish and English or mostly Spanish? I grew up, uh, knowing no English until I went to school. We spoke Spanish all of the time in my home and so I have a

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recollection of going to school. Where, uh, no one understood what I was saying until I did learn English. Um. So, um, what kind of, um, description or what kind of picture comes to you? How's thinking of the neighborhood. I'm thinking of not only socioeconomic, but I

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guess some of it too where there was a strictly um. Uh, residential area? Was it mixed? Were there stores, shops, no, um, I, uh, Uh, as I recollect, I would not call myself what I think of as very poor. I think of us having an adequate

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home, uh, not fancy furniture, and so, um, clean place, um, having good food, not fancy food. And so I think of um the community being a stable community um. But uh it was a Mexican-American community. In other words, the majority of the people would have been

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probably working people, all of them, so I would say were working people, people that needed to work, not, mhm. And so you went to school there, mostly in California. I mean, I'm speaking of the elementary and junior high school. My, like I said, my formal education

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is in Western in California. And I began school and I went through high school. I did, uh-huh, but about, uh, from where and about when were you graduating from high school? And did you go directly to college or did you work in between? You know, I

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went, uh, directly to school. Uh, I do recollect, um, that. When we all became of age, having a family of 10, we all helped each other and so no, I never stayed away from school we would work after school. And the 10 children all went to

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college. So this is one thing that my father and mother always encouraged us to do that we had to go to college. So we did in 1948. I graduated from Pasadena College, so I attended what we call PCC at that time, which is Pasadena High School.

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It was a junior senior. Then I went the last two years of your high school, and the first two years of your college were then now it's different, but from there I went to Pasadena College, Pasadena Nazarene College, and that's where I graduated. Well, uh, did

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your mother, since it was a large family, very likely did not work outside the home? No, my mother was always home. She was a minister's wife and when she was out of the home, it was because she was assisting. In some church related activities. Functions or

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activities. Did you have an opportunity to pursue any kind of hobby? Did you have time to. Yes, I played the violin and I played the violin and the piano. And so I think of my family as not having everything but always thinking of what else can

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I do with a few pennies that we have so I did receive music lessons since I was very young, so I do play the violin and the piano. And hobbies, uh, we always had our baseball team, and so I can play ball very well. That was

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always a hobby. And uh reading uh was always something that we did in our home. My father always saw to it that uh good books. We're there, uh, we always went to the library. And I think that that is what uh helped us to do well

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in school that even though they knew only Spanish at that time that they knew um or had good common sense to uh encourage us to do those things that I think of now were probably very important in my earlier years. Uh, you said you helped each

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other. Did you also have any kind of job then when you were in, in high school or. Oh, yes. In college, always, you said I worked. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I worked, uh, I, at that time when I was in high school, um, If you remember it was

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during the war, and so women were needed everywhere, so I worked at a grocery store. And I was a cashier. I did that all the time until I was through with school. Um. So, I, I, I think I earned good money because you would call earned

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money good money at that time. At that time. Well, you have to consider what things cost then, certainly. My older sister, Um, graduated at age 18 from college, so it was also during the war, and she became an engineer with Caltech. She was one of uh

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Doctor Einstein's uh staff members, and so she had some good experiences, so I was very acquainted with that situation. Um, I was preparing myself to be a teacher then. Um-hum. You knew at an early age that you, that's what I wanted to you wanted to do.

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Uh-huh. I wanted to teach. Uh-huh. Were you active, like, say, when you were in, in high school with, um, Certain organizations or clubs like newspaper or literary things or music since you I was always involved with music and so I belonged to always belonged to an

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orchestra or a band and that took a lot of our time for practice and we also used to travel with the teams. So I learned about football and basketball. Through the observation, uh, situation because you know I would have been very bored sitting there in between

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the plane. So, uh, I was not a person that stayed home very often, of course we all had our duties as you would imagine having 10, the cleaning of the house very often those practices, as I well know what used to. I don't know if they

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do it before school and after school. We did them before school and after school because at that time it was, um. All of the young people were very involved, all of the kids. Remember then were very involved in school activities before and after and so uh

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the the boys and girls that you went to school uh it it's different in that sense you kind of had it. A team going all of the time as to what it is that you were doing. So you never uh were alone. They came to your

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house, you went to their house, you, you got involved socially. Kind of group activities and still there was that, um, well, you might say supervision or at least parents or adults were always around. Well, we always had that. We always had adults. So then upon you

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said you were thinking even way back before you were through school that you were going to be a teacher, did you get out into that immediately, or you met your husband to be then, right? I, uh, was involved. I was very involved in church also and

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so I remember. And it must have been at the age of 11 and 12. I remember very well that I used to want to assist the Sunday school teacher. And so at a very early age, not too much after that, maybe 14 or 15, I became

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a sensitive teacher with a little one, and I really think back now that I learned a lot of techniques, uh, that I needed in the classroom because of that. You learn them through actually the practical aspect of it so I, once I did get to be

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a student teacher, I realized that I really knew more than what I thought because it in a way it made it easier for you, yes, it did uh-huh. So then, um, were you married shortly after or I met my husband in 1946 and I married in

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February of 1948. We both graduated in January and we married at the same time. Uh-huh. Now where, where was he from? He was, uh, he came to Caltech in 1946. Uh, he had finished the Polytechnical in. And so he came to stay here in In Pasadena

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and Remarried in 19. OK. Where, uh, what did you both do then? Remain there or did he, uh. My husband got a special calling to be a minister. Um-hum. Uh, during that time, and so, um, When we finished college, the church asked him to go to

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one of our schools that we have in San Antonio, Texas, and so at the early age, and really now that I look back, it was too early. Age 21 he became the dean of the school, uh, and it really was is gonna be also his first

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year of teaching so in San Antonio San what was the name of the school for them it was the uh. Escula de iglesia denasarina. It was for Spanish speaking students not only from this country but students that came in from Mexico, from Spanish speaking countries, so

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it really was a, so once again I go from having spoken Spanish when I was very little, uh, learning English, uh, kind of forgetting Spanish a little bit, marrying a Mexican. Uh, having to draw on those Spanish skills that I had enriching them, then having to

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go to a school situation where not only he was having to teach in Spanish, but then I too. Teaching and I had to teach in Spanish. Now, you, you helped him with his work or did you go on your own? I mean, we were then married

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and I had another assignment and mine was to teach. Uh-huh. Were you, did you teach for the school district in San Antonio? No, I taught for that particular school also. 00, I see, I see. So we were, we were both teaching then. We lived there three

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years. We taught. That's the next, next question, three years you remained there and you taught. We taught three years and my husband also pastored a church there. Uh, after those three years, he thought it was, there was a need for him to go to graduate studies,

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so we have our graduate studies seminary here in Kansas City. So in 1951, August of 1951, we came to Kansas City. It was the year of the flood. Oh, you came in very exciting time. Um, so of course you didn't have any of the children, or

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were any of your family born by that time we already had 222 of your children. How many do you have altogether? We have 4 now, 3 boys and a daughter. 3 boys and a daughter. And so how many were born there? 1222. David and Paul. David

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and Paul. So Paul was a little baby. going And so you said you both came to continue some studying here and, um, where did you reside at the time or did you immediately have contact with the Spanish speaking community? Right away, right away we knew that

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uh he was coming to do his studies, but at the same time we also needed to work and so our international church gave him an assignment with the um. What they called himpartamento Latino and uh they also asked him to uh pastor the church that was

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then in the Argentine district so yes we got very involved with the Hispanic community. There was a church over there and there still is now in the Argentine changed from the Argentine district and I don't know if it's still called Argentine. It's changed with the freeways

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and so we're right off the freeway now. Did you live out there? No, I didn't live there. We lived by where our school was and at that time it was on Twenty-ninth Street off Passal by the lake. So we lived, I don't remember the exact address,

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but it was on 29th Street, two houses east of the sale right here in Kansas City, Missouri. Um-hum. And so, then you were here then when the flood hit. No, uh, you, I believe you had your flood in July, if I'm not mistaken. The flood was

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in July. I wasn't here. You came in August then? You were. Oh, you came in August. That's right. And you still had those big tanks that had been turned over with the water. Oh, I mean, you could still see the, uh, Oh, not only that, but

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the people who, uh, were not in their homes. Uh. Well, that's what I was to the high school. I was going to ask you, you know, what you remember, you know, how the people were affected. The people were out of their homes. They were living in

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the high school and trailer homes that they set up for them. The church had been flooded and so of course we had to wait until that got repaired so we met for church. Uh, first hour it was mass with a priest and the second hour we

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had church. I see you we shared the building which was the high school auditorium. Particular time in the Argentine industry. So, so, so we were very involved for those 3 years that that my husband did his studies and uh we were very involved once again with

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the Hispanic group at the same time we had membership. Uh, at, uh, on the west side, and we got to know the west side for that reason. Quite a few people and so we visited. Um-hum. Did you, did you also pursue further study, both of you

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there? Oh, yes. Uh-huh. He finished his, uh, master's in history, as far as church history. Then at the same time, he also went to UMKC and received his, uh, master's in linguistics. Um-hum. At that time. And then we went to um. California in 1954 for another

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assignment it was for another assignment we were to then begin a new church in the Los Angeles area, so we went. 1954 we went to church to serve the Hispanic community once again in East Los Angeles. So you established a new, a new church there, is

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that brand new Church in A and you remained there again for about how long? 6 years, 6 years until 1960. And once again, uh, it, it, we not only got involved in church work, we really got involved in community work. And we try to meet the

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needs of the people not only spiritually but uh many times, uh, we need to begin with the understanding of um. The caring for their material needs, and so we have tried to do that. And I think that's probably one of the reasons I would say that

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probably thanks to God probably the next main reason that we have been successful in community work is because we have tried to begin with trying to meet the needs of the people. People can't understand the love of God if you cannot share what you have. Um-hum.

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How large, uh, how large a church, I mean, membership wise, approximately was that then? Was that. Well, I, we had, uh, 5. The first Sunday we were there, and, uh, Would have like 400 members when we left after 6 years and. And that meant you really

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got out and worked to build it up. Yes, we worked every day. We went into the homes. Um, You cannot separate yourself and get all involved and people sense that right away whether you're just trying to uh I get the bodies. In this situation or are

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you really interested in these people, this person, individual persons, but it is still. Within the Hispanic group, it is still the most um. Aggressive church, growing church, and it has divided itself three times. So even though it's that size now, it's because they have begun begun

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to go to another part of the Los Angeles area to begin the work so. Been very good. Uh-huh. Were you both then assigned here in Kansas City or elsewhere? Where did you go from there, from, I went from California, from this, from California, my husband was

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tapped on again and uh since his work uh has to do with um editing and writing. They brought him back to be in charge of, Then the Spanish speaking uh editorial work, which means uh our denomination papers. Uh, Sunday school. Has All the publishing, connected with

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that. Uh-huh. Um-hum. And that was in at the. This is at the center then. So, we came. You came to them. We have our international headquarters here. Yes, I, I know, but I mean, he came then to. He just out of there. for them. At that

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time, he, uh, did that. Um, And of course his work then took him through a new facet which was having to touch base with uh all the Spanish speaking countries so we could not pastor any longer because he would be gone. Too, too many times, but

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uh we. Do continue and did continue to get involved with trying to meet the needs now not only of this country but other countries and try to orient the, the, uh, paperwork or the books or whatever needs to be done according to trying to meet the

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needs of the other countries we don't just uh direct to be oriented just to one community or one country to the the international aspect of it uh-huh and he then pursued his studies and so did I. And he finished his PhD at the University of Missouri

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and I finished my. University of Columbia at Kansas City, Kansas City, and you too, and I did, uh, my master's degree in elementary education and I also pursued earning my administrative certification. And then you became involved with the school district later or I became involved with

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the Kansas City School District in 1971. Chose to uh go and teach where I thought that I was living and I. I do appreciate that the Kansas City School Districts did send me to Douglas School first. I was at Switzer for half a year, and then

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I went to Douglas, uh-huh, and teaching 3rd grade, 3rd grade at Switzer, and then you went to Douglas, and I taught 3rd, 2nd, and 1st grade there, and I was there until, um, I was asked to be a resource teacher for kindergarten, reading and math, and

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then I became an instructional coordinator. For Title One and then the compensatory programs. Uh, I've been Saw something that I hadn't seen before. And I did not really realize that I could write, so I experimented on that and began writing some proposals for the Kansas City

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School District. And got very, very involved with the writing of what we now call the Early Learning's program, Kindergarten magnet. We were successful in getting that program and the monies. To do that and now it's a model program for the Kansas City School District. We also

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got very involved, as you well know, for the bilingual program that began its facet in the 1974-1975. The school district asked my husband to be the director. Time. So he begin that and the Indo-Chinese program for the school district at the same time that he was

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doing the other. He was doing both, actually. Now, when, when, uh, he became director, that was, uh, the, uh, beginning of that, wasn't it? He was. That was the first. The beginning of the bilingual program for the Kansas school district. Um. And he remained, that was

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from 70. He, he was here two years, 74, 75, 76, 77. And then he left in November of his 7778 assignment. And he felt that it was headed towards the right direction. I ask to take Um-hum. His place. And then he went back to work just.

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Full time. Full time at the Nazarene Publishing. And, uh, As you, um, Look ahead. I know that you've accomplished quite a bit and, you know, involved with all these different programs. What are some of the other things you would like to see done or would like

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to come with the, you know, with the programs and the things that you have been working with and the needs that you have seen and the, Two specific things that I can think about. One that I feel that we have uh begin to accomplish and that

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is that uh I had seen a need for uh elementary counselors. I began the program once again for the Kansas City School District. We did not have this kind of a program here before and I think that, uh, in this day and age. Uh, we can

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no longer wait. To Have the boys go through our system without giving them assistance. The pressures are too much. They have to have somebody where they can come and talk to the family situation, the single parenting, the peer pressure is just a little too much, I

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think, for children starting with kindergarten. So that to me is a specific, uh, objective. I think that we now have seen that, um, the AAA rating for the Kansas City school districts that spell out. That we have to have elementary councils, that is a big need.

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In our elementary schools and I'm very happy for that and I hope we can do more that in that area. Um, it used to be that parents could counsel their children. In the Kansas City school district, we have 68% of our parents. Uh being a single

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parent. So you can see where our students are, there's a need to tie that. Situation. The other thing that I feel um we have not accomplished yet in our life. To see um my. Time being spent is that even though we have excuse me, your time

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being what being spent, oh. I would like to be spending more of my time in this activity, and that is that we have been successful in in in making the Kansas City School District see the need for bilingual education, and we, I think that we're, we

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are doing a good job this year. For the first time we have no federal funds and the Kansas City School District has picked up the tab, has made reassignments or recommendations, and we're meeting that need. But I think we need to address ourselves now to the

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need of the Mexican American students which is different and I think that uh um talking at a time when we know that um. Uh, Don Pasina is, um, asking for an alternative school. I think that, uh, sometimes, uh, even myself, that has been able to. Pursue

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an education. Might have tended to think that it was all because of a family situation. Longer see that, it that way. What, what do you mean? I I mean that maybe my family pushed me. Oh, I see. But I now that I have really gone and

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taught in that school and have seen what bilingual education addresses itself to, I still feel that we're leaving out the Mexican American and that is that um I'm thinking that the Mex the average Mexican American student comes to school without knowing Spanish or English. In other

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words, they're labeled bilingual, but they're not, but we know that they are not really because they, they really what they know in Spanish very often is what they have heard. They have not been trained in the language and, and they know English too from what they've

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heard and they're, uh, sometimes it, it, it's causes a more of a hardship or a frustration or something. Well, uh, with people that don't understand that, uh, they think that our boys and girls are ready to go on with your regular traditional. Uh, concept of education

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and, uh, I hear them talking about alternative school. I, I think that alternative school should mean this that, um. That we should try and take a look and I know that we talk about monies, but I'm thinking of how do we reshuffle the monies and the

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monies are there, how do we reshuffle them? To try and meet this need and we need to address ourselves, the need is there. 70% of our boys and girls are dropping out. We are not meeting the need, so I'm not talking probably about a family Mexican

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American family situation like yours or like mine or like my 10 brothers and sisters, uh, but I'm, uh, but I am talking about. The Kansas City School District needs, you know, I'm not even going to compare them to Colorado, California, Texas. I am talking about this

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community. So I would like to be able to spend a little more time. Mrs. Franco, we were in the middle of something when we interrupted. Do you want to, want to continue from there? You were talking about some of the needs as you see them with

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some of the programs and some of the things in the Kansas City school district and certainly with your training and your experience, you're one person that could be and should be consulted. I, uh, I have, uh, seen that, and that's why I think I get so

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excited about the combination of programs that, that I have because, uh, somehow or other the combination of assisting boys and girls to verbalize the feelings I like I mentioned to you through the counseling program. Um, hopefully, um, getting the boys and girls to feel good about

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who they are, just as they are. Not changing them happy that we are who we are. And enhancing Those um situations that they come to us. From the home that they do not have, not because the parents would not like to have them, but it's just

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something that, uh, we as educators should be able to see and do. I can see. Exciting things happen. If we would only listen and want to be to change, not feel threatened as teachers, you know, that we have to start from there. Uh, not thinking that

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we know it all. Seeing what uh a child might say to us, um, changing our ideas. That to me I think that the Kansas City school district could do a big service not just because we have to with the West Side but making a turnaround and

00:31:15.489 - 00:31:34.109

who knows I don't think that they're the only community that is lacking some of these things um I think that all minority children. Might be lacking some of the same kinds of things we're used to addressing ourselves to trying to meet the needs of uh boys

00:31:34.109 - 00:31:55.380

and girls that come to us with uh middle class background or low middle class uh because it's the easy way out. So, um, uh, I'm tireless. I think that the idea and concept of Trying to find alternative ways how to. Of boys and girls, I'm thinking

00:31:55.380 - 00:32:23.609

of the strategic plan and I. Go to some meetings and, um, including the board meeting. And I think to myself, um, We're just thinking of. Making people accountable, evaluating. Uh, changing our tools um without um. Really? Not thinking about these kinds of things that in itself

00:32:23.609 - 00:32:39.770

um one might be thinking is um being too idealistic I'm not I think that I'm being realistic it's just to be able to get some of the other people. Become contagious to that aspect and you know I think that um you know while I'm sitting here

00:32:39.770 - 00:32:56.150

talking to you that I'm thinking that uh hopefully that uh this idea kind of grasped on me when my husband and I went to uh Guatemala to do um. Work on his dissertation on bilingual education. Um-hum. How long were you there? You were there. Uh, we,

00:32:56.270 - 00:33:20.709

I was there about 2.5 months. Um-hum. The thing that grasps me the most is, uh, that the same thing was happening there. That we were waiting. The poison was being poor to me. And coming to find out. But that had nothing to do with it. We

00:33:20.709 - 00:33:46.300

took a classroom, uh. Of students and had a control situation. We work with uh Doctor Kagan from Harvard University. And realize that when we begin to meet their nutrition needs. And, My husband and I began going from house to house. Talking to the parents. They see

00:33:46.300 - 00:34:05.630

the interest the boys and girls, um, Begin not wanting to miss school. And then I couldn't teach the regular classes because this would have been contaminated, as they call in research the environment. But I decided to do something that wasn't being done, and I decided to

00:34:05.630 - 00:34:26.110

uh have music and art. The boys and girls began to get excited about school. It wasn't me necessarily. I think that they wanted to come and see, but that the teacher that they were working with was taking the time to understand their home culture you see

00:34:26.110 - 00:34:46.949

over there here it's English and other cultures, the English majority and other cultures. And over there is the Hispanic community with the indigenous dialect community, which is really the same. And lo and behold, if the university wasn't excited about finding out at the end of our

00:34:46.949 - 00:35:03.750

experiment that the teacher training universities had to change their approach and how they train their teachers now here in the United States at UMKC we haven't been able to impact anyone with wanting to do that so you know it's, it's gonna take years for this to

00:35:03.750 - 00:35:19.179

happen, but there it seems to me like we. If we at least begin to identify Where the need is and say these are some of the things that we're doing. I think that even though the road might be long, that there is a beginning for that

00:35:19.570 - 00:35:40.120

and it could be. That, um, I might be more successful in attempting some of these ideas when I no longer have to be paid. With the Kansas City school board monies. So I'm looking ahead to maybe not having to wait until I become, 62 years old

00:35:40.120 - 00:35:59.760

to retire. Not that I'm rich, but if our life is going to count to any extent, Here in this life, and to me that's very important. Not that I will be remembered as being a very popular person, or maybe not even being remembered at all, but

00:35:59.760 - 00:36:19.550

that maybe one life. One little life might be able to say, you know, there was a difference because somebody looked at me. As an individual that there might be with a Mexican-American little child, a black little child. A non-minority. But I do know that the need

00:36:19.550 - 00:36:38.879

is with what we call minorities. It's coming out and I think that you realize it's coming out and it's not whether I'm for Reagan or against Reagan. But the Reaganites, as I call them, have allowed for that melting pot concept to come back out again, and

00:36:38.879 - 00:36:57.590

I believe in being me. Yes. Continue with my culture, yes. But allowing me to be able to function in my world and in this other world that I have to become so competitive with. But one does not mean that it's less than the other one. I

00:36:57.590 - 00:37:11.320

don't want to be better than, but I don't want to be less than. And all that I've been talking about here makes sense when you look at it as a whole if you take any little part of education here. Now, I'm beginning to sound like I'm

00:37:11.320 - 00:37:24.989

on a sermon on, so I think it's time to stop on that concept right there. To stop. And your own children have done very well. You're, uh, been pretty pleased. Most of them are through school. As college right? as, uh, school is concerned, they did very

00:37:24.989 - 00:37:43.239

well in the academics. Um, once again, uh. Um-hum. The study that uh came out of my husband's idea for his dissertation of course was in bilingual education and he did it mainly because it was a um situation at home where he could compare what we were

00:37:43.239 - 00:38:10.090

doing with our own children. Uh, 2 of them we taught Spanish 1st and 2 of them, they only heard Spanish, so we, uh, the 4 of them understand it. Surprisingly enough, uh, Spanish enhances. The creativity, for one thing, it doesn't take it away. It adds. As

00:38:10.090 - 00:38:30.219

far as we can see, it adds to the, to the boys and girls. So yes, they've done very well. They have all gone to college. And have good jobs if you're thinking about materialistically. Well, they'll be contributing members of society and you, you see how applying

00:38:30.219 - 00:38:45.179

your. Um-hum. philosophy, if it doesn't always work, well, that's something else, but at least for you it has worked in your own. Well, if there's anything else you wish to add, I know you're pressed for time, but is there anything else? And I certainly want to

00:38:45.179 - 00:38:54.699

thank you, Mrs. Franco, for this interview and perhaps at a later date we can conduct another one. OK. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I know you've got to rush. All right.