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This is Irene Ruiz interviewing Mr. Robert E. Lopez on February 26, 1978 at 614 West 60th Terrace. This is tape 23A. Mr. Lopez is employed by the Federal Agency of General Services Administration at Kansas City, Missouri at 1500 East Banister Road. Mr. Lopez, I would like

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for you to tell me something about the place of your birth. And uh where you were born? Well, my place of birth is Kansas City, Missouri. I was raised, born and raised on the west side. On November 2, 1934. All right. Now, can you tell me

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something, um, About your family, your parents. And um their names and where they came from or where they're originally from here. Both my parents came from Mexico when they were very young. My mother was 4. My father was approximately 5 years of age. My mother came

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from this little town or city in Mexico named Victoria. And my father came from the uh state of Leon Guanajuato. All right. So they came here and did they come originally directly to Kansas City or? No, my, uh, grandfather on my mother's side came through working

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with the railroad. He started first in Texas and worked his way down into Kansas City. And this is where he settled. So then your father and mother met here and met here and married here in Kansas City, Missouri, and they lived on the west side. OK,

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um, what was your father's name? My father's name was Florentino A Lopez. And your mother's? My mother's maiden name Andrea Estrada Estrada. All right, so you're Estrada Lopez. And uh, so where did they live then? Where did your parents live when they were married? They lived

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there at 2304 Fairmount. On the west side ever since they got married and uh in the same house there was 12 of us, 12 brothers and sisters, 12 brothers and sisters, and your father and mother made 14, right, and my grandmother on my father's side. She

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lived there too. Right. All right. Do you, uh, remember something about the neighborhood? Something about the houses and the people, how they made their living and. Well, the majority of the people there were blue collar workers. And uh unskilled laborers. The, uh, there was a mixed

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neighborhood, German. Mexican neighborhood. And uh the majority of the Mexican people there worked either for the railroads. Or the packing houses and the uh German people there work for the city, the Kansas City Water Department, which is just down the street from us. And your father

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worked for the railroad? Yes, he worked for the railroad. He worked for the Santa Fe River. Santa Fe River. OK. Did he, uh, do the same type of work or did he change within it? Did. Well, he changed, uh, after the, uh, Second World War started.

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He left the, uh, freight house of the, uh, Railroad and went to work for Swift and Company. And I stayed there until the end of the war and then went back to the railroad. After World War II. Right, because of the freeze. I changed jobs during

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the war. Um-hum. All right. Um, So, since you were a large family, obviously, your mother worked only at home, not outside. Right. She had enough to do at home. Right. And, um, What, uh, school did you or schools did you attend while you were living there?

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Well, I started kindergarten at, uh, This school, it's been torn down. I cannot remember the name of the school. It was just, uh, about three blocks from our home. Is this where most of the, uh, children and families. Right from the neighborhood. Neighborhood. Either that or

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Guadalupe school. Um. One of the two. Um-hum. So, where did you go later on, to Guadalupe or. No, I went to Switzer. Switzer. And from Switzer, which was a great school, I'll continue on to Western, Junior high and then manual, but I did not finish high

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school. Um-hum. You left school in about, uh, uh, about what time was this when you were, You remember exactly about what time was when you were in Switzer or at Manual? At Manual. I left Manual when I was approximately 18 years of age. Um-hum. I went,

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one. OK, when you were about 18 from 34 would make it about 1952523, something like that. Um. All right. And, uh, so you went into the Marines for what, uh, What length of time and where were you stationed? Tell me a little bit about that. Well,

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I went into the Marine Corps for, uh, For 3 years I went in to uh San Diego, California for Marine crew training. From there I went to Camp Ellen for advanced infantry training. From there I went into, uh, to Korea. Excuse me, where was that? Oh,

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uh-huh, right. Uh, returning back to the states from Korea. Campo, California for about a year and then I got discharged there. Came back home. Stayed a while. And then went into the Air Force. There was no jobs and. So this would have been in 56, 7.

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Um-hum. You went into the Air Force for what length of time was this? I went in for a year tour. Then from, uh, there, from here, I went to, uh, San Antonio for approximately, uh, three months. With the Air Force from there, I was transferred to

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Great Falls, Montana. From there I went to uh Newfoundland. And then uh I was discharged. Then I joined the reserves. So you're still with the reserves? No, I gave up 18 years. Of, uh, military. Of military. You thought you'd had enough. Well, in the meantime, Going

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back just a little bit to your earlier days, um, what do you recall of the, of your earlier days when you were, say, at Switzer or you? Early childhood days, some do you remember something in particular then, maybe something about, Conditions at school or were you

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too little to evaluate? Well, At that time. You know, the majority of the people there, we depended quite a bit on the clinics. Because I can remember that, that we had a, a clinic on Mercer. On 23rd and Mercer. And uh we used to get our

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shots there and our checkups and so forth because our parents couldn't afford it. So, uh, Could not afford private physicians. So. Right. This would have been true of, of most of the people. Right. Around you. The majority of the people there. And they, they had a

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reverend nurse. Doctor and, uh, dentist that would come in certain days, naturally you weren't there certain days. And uh. We had a regular neighborhood grocery stores there that, uh, our parents, uh, took the, uh, their groceries out on, on the bill every 15. On credit. On

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credit. So that every 15th days we'd go down and pay, uh, so much on the groceries. Was this because your father got paid every. Every 15 days. 15 days. And this would have been true of most of the. Right. The, uh, all the neighborhood grocery stores

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that had their, uh, little bills, Mhm. What other, um, well, for one thing, the grocery shop itself, was it a, a Mexican owned by a Mexican American or by, uh, the grocery stores were owned by Mexican Americans, but your clothing stores were owned by the Jewish.

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Were there stores clothing stores there too? Right on Southwest Boulevard. And what other kind of stores, clothing and were there drug stores? Well, the drugstore was owned by, uh, well, there were two. The Highland drugstore was owned by Anglos. And one, neighborhood drug store was owned

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by uh a Mexican American and that served in the First World War. And he also served as a notarizer. Uh, Republic. No Republic. This would have been the man that owned the Mexican drugstore. Now, what do you remember the name of that? Uh, that was the

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Drug store. Has Gerald's. Oh. Has they call it. And that's where most of the kids would go down and buy their ice cream. The little ice cream shop. Right. Well, did he also, um, deal, was he a pharmacist by training or he just operated the drugstore

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I understood he was a pharmacist. Uh-huh. Cause he did make up, uh Prescriptions. Right. Now, did he also, uh, sell any kind of herbs or anything. Yes, he did. Uh, He served, uh, it would be a Mexican style as somebody has called it, uh, where you

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would dispense things, a tea or something for Different variety of ills. Right. And he did have everything that. And this was Haidos. Haos. And I have not heard of that one. 24th and uh Bellevue and he first started out on the uh west side of uh

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of Bellevue. Then he moved over to the east side on the same corner. Uh, 24th Street area and the neighborhood was very big mixture later on during the war years I can remember because there was quite a. That, uh, start moving in. And then they start

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opening up their uh places of business, for instance, quite a few bars. Had one they call a green duck. A green duck. They used to have quite a few fights there. And I have heard that name and I don't know, does one still exist. Somebody has

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mentioned. Leon, uh, I believe he was a politician that got, uh, killed here a few years ago. Oh, that's where I had heard that, all right. Are there any other little shops or stores that you recall, any that. Well, there was one restaurant there. There were,

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there was an Anglo restaurant that, but they would never serve the Mexicans there. Oh, you couldn't, Mexicans could not go there. Right. Was there a, a sign or how did you know that people couldn't go there? Of course, the prices may have been very high. No,

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they had, uh, the policy that you went in there and they wouldn't serve you. They just wouldn't serve you. Would they serve you if you carried food out? No, we never, nobody. Nobody, uh-huh. Nobody bothered. Right. Then they had a little, uh, delicatessen across the street.

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And, uh, run by an Italian, but, uh, you could go there right you could buy your, uh, sandwiches or, uh, wait for the bus or a streetcar. And uh then there was another neighborhood bar there on the corner. Well there were two approximately that was uh

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run by Italians that would not serve Mexicans either. And they were uh. R Within the neighborhood itself. Most of the clients were from out of the neighborhood. Oh, no people from there. What, uh, What about Mexican restaurants? Were there any as such or any that just

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catered to the Mexican people? No, there was no restaurants. There was, uh, two bakeries. First of all, there was one bakery. Run by Mr. Pettis. And that was, uh, do you remember the name of the names of the name of this bakery, the names of the

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bakery, just, just the one operated by Mr. Pettis. Then another one was started by Mrs. Carrillo. And then, uh, pretty soon we had another one run by Mrs. uh, Lopez, I think, uh, She had quite a few sons. Um, That used to run around with my

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brothers. Um-hum. And she opened up the first restaurant there later when her, her bakery went down. Um-hum. Would this have been maybe much later, like in the 40s or. Uh, I'd say late 40s, 50s, something like that. That no longer exists. No. No bakery but one

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now. Um-hum. Um-hum. All right, um, So how, um, how about, I know you said your father worked for the railroad. Was it, uh, difficult, I know, rearing a large family like that financially, or did, were you aware that it was hard to support a large family

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or or were you even. Everybody had large families there in the neighborhood, and the majority of the people to make their income stretched, they would either raise chickens, plant their corn. And uh their own little gardens. To help out on their food bills. Um-hum. And I'd

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like to say that the majority of the people there right on our block now. We had to buy pull off for our stoves, cooking stoves, because the city would not put in. And natural gas. Oh, so you had to. Uh, buy the cook and all. And

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where would you buy this? Was this also close to the grocery store store. Oh, you could buy this at the grocery store. I see. For how long, do you remember how long this went on? Was this as late as the 40s or? Well, this went on,

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I'd say way into the, uh, First part of the 50s. That light. Um-hum. And we had wooden sidewalks besides that. Is that right? For and this also went on for, oh, this went on until the the middle 50s. Uh, the streets, uh, the, there was possibly

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3 or 4 streets left. Right at the end of the, uh, west side, there was not paved. It was just dirt roads. And even the, uh, I remember my father used to bring up petitions. For the people to sign to take down to the city hall

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to see if we could get our streets paved. With a black top or anything. But uh, Got to the people that never did get their uh streets paid until way into the early 60s, I'd say. Mhm. OK, um, You probably belonged to the Guadalupe Church or

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your family? Were you, was a whole family? Were they all, we all, uh. Uh, members of the, of the land of the parish. Because that was the only Catholic school and the only Catholic church. Church. There was another one, the Sacred Heart Church, but that was

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segregated. Only the ambulance could go to that. Oh, is that right? The one that's still there now. Right there on, uh, and, uh, Madison. Um. And the Anglos that used to live in our block, used to go to sacred homes. Sacred homes. But you went to?

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So then most of your neighbors that would have been the Mexican Americans belonged to Guadalupe? Yes. OK. Were there any, uh, little organizations there for children like you or were they, um, that you might have been active with? Well, my father used to play, uh, in

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the, in a small band they used to have, they used to have, uh, these functions for the Cinco de Mayo, Uh, some kind of pediatric, uh, organizations to remember the old country. 16th of September and things like that and they would have programs. Uh-huh. And he

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would play them. And they, uh, they used to have those, On 20 on South Boulevard. And I cannot remember the name of it, but I can remember, we used to go down to the basement, and that's where they used to have the function. The basement of

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the church. No, no. This was a private, uh, building. Oh, this was another building. Um. So, it was a church, but then you had the building for the, it's a separate. Right. Um-hum. And that went on for quite a few years until, uh, The old timers

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started dying out, and then the younger generation just didn't care. Did not continue with it. Were you active in any, um, thing like, uh, any sports? Well, my brothers were. Your brothers. Uh, but did you like to play ball or just with the children, even if

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you weren't in any team? Well, we used to have, uh, a lot. The west side had a lot on uh 23rd and and uh Jarville. But uh the older boys used to clean up. And made it into a ball out. But uh during the summer I

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can remember we used to go to Penn Valley Park and they used to have a swimming pool there. And uh the only reason why the majority of the Mexican kids used to go over there and they wouldn't restrict him because he was Mexican to go into

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the pool itself it was run by the city and uh. They, uh. Would give, uh, the kids sandwiches and milk. That is the park or the recreation department. Right, during the summer. And uh I could still uh See that pool when I go by there. No,

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but it's gone. Um-hum. But you could go there. Now, you could go in there every day, any day of the week or were there certain days that you go? No, we, well, the only time we ever did go was during the summer. During the summer. All

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right. Did you have a hobby as a child or as a young adult? Was there anything in particular that you like to do and that you were able to do? Well, not exactly cause, uh, when I was in, uh, high school or grade school, I was

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working. Yeah. All the time. Uh, I used to go to work before I'd go to school delivering milk. Oh, I see. And then the, uh, driver would let me off there at school, Then during the summer, I used to sell fruits and vegetables and deliver milk.

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Um-hum. And you went from house to house to. Right. Doing that. Um-hum. So, I really didn't have too much of a. Too much time to, to have hobbies. OK. Um, well, since you were born in 34, of course, maybe some of the effects of the depression

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were still around, but by the time World War II came along, you were just still fairly small, but do you, do you remember how Did it affect your family or friends or relatives? Were there any neighbors or friends that were directly affected by having members go

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off into the. Yes, uh, there was, uh, the Sefuentes family. They used to live down the street from us. Sifuentes? Sefuentes. And they had one of their sons killed during the Second World War. Um-hum. And then the Valvias had, uh, her, uh, son killed. And my

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oldest brother, now he went in when he was 17. Right in our block, there was approximately, uh, 10. They went in. 10 that went into the armed. Um-hum. Services. And one got killed and then on the block, just to be honest, uh, the Morenos had another

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son killed too. Hm. And that was a There's, We'll probably, uh, 5, maybe 6 families there. That block. Um-hum. They had sons in. Um-hum. And that went on block after block. Do you remember any other, were there ever any blackouts or do you remember any other

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thing about the stamps or anything else that went on. Oh, the stamps, well, yeah. Do you remember hearing about that? I remember knowing that you, I have to take stamps to the grocery store. I could remember, and I used to hand the, uh, stamp up to

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the, uh, clerk. And uh I'd give him the list of what we needed and he takes so much, so many of the stamps for so much of the food, shoes, the same thing. And uh there was no automobiles. Everybody walked or uh rode the streetcar. So

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you didn't have a parking problem. OK, now, uh, you were a little bit older by the time the flight of 51 came along and You were still living there then, right? We could see the flood right over our backyard because we were living way up on

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the bank, uh, up on this hill and the flood did come all the way to the end of the 23rd Street by dock and that's, uh, almost right directly over our backyard. And we did see quite a bit of, uh, damage done. Um-hum. Were there any

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of your neighbors or relatives or friends who were actually, They had to move out? They had to move out or, uh. My older brother, uh, was living in the Argentine district and he had just got married. And uh he came in and my grandfather on my

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mother's side took him in and his father-in-law's family. My aunt on my grandmother's side, her sister. Took another relative of ours in and we had, uh, even though we were a large family, we took in two other families also. Um. And that had to move out.

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They had to move. Were there any, was there anybody that you knew that drowned in the, uh. None. None that I knew. Um-hum. I have just heard of, of either one or two, and that's because the people didn't move out. Right. They were told to move

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out and they didn't. But so maybe because, uh, you had enough warning. Did they warn the people and tell you. They did warn the people, but quite a few people just didn't want to leave you know, Yeah. The ones that did leave, well, they left everything

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and the only thing they had was their clothing that they had on their backs. Um-hum. Now, for what length of time did some of the people that moved, the people that moved in with your family, for instance, did they have to stay for a month or

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a few weeks? Well, quite a few were there. For a good while. I'd say maybe 3 or 4 months or longer. To get back on their. To get back to their homes and clean up and so forth. Mhm. All right then, uh, we had already talked

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about your, um, being in the service and, uh, the last, well, in fact you were in the Marine Corps and then you were in the Air Force. So about that time when you came back from the Air Force, and what did you do? Did you settle

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back in over there or did you go to work or did you get married? I got married in 1960. I went to Mexico and got married. In Mexico. In Mexico. Was this because you traveled back and forth or how did you have close ties to Mexico

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that you I had close ties because of my parents. Used to travel. Right. And, uh, that's where, uh, A second cousin of ours worked for the Mexican government and at that time my one of my future brother-in-laws used to work for him. And, uh, kid, uh,

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my cousin, how about fixing me up with your sister. Oh, as a date. Right. So, uh, That's where I met my wife. What part of Mexico or where was this? Uh, this was in Mexico City, and, uh, my wife is from Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco. Um-hum.

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But you met her where in Mexico or in Jalisco? In Jalisco. I went back down there on my own on vacation later. Um-hum. But, uh, After we got married, we came back to live here in Kansas City. And uh I started working for the packing house.

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I started as a laborer. And uh. At that time, the packing houses were uh. Segregated. He had, uh, Manual jobs. The, uh, shops were closed. You mean certain shops or certain areas you, you could not get into? Right. The crafts were closed off to the minorities.

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So at that time, the blacks were pushing. For uh better jobs, so, uh, they thought I applied for this, uh, apprenticeship program in the sheet mill. And they accepted me. Provided that I would take a, a cut on my pay. Well, now, was this a program

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that they offered within their own company. Where you could get trained to be advanced. Right. Within the company. And it was on the job training. The job training, all right. And I learned that, The sheet metal trade for 4 years, then Swift closed up, so I

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went to work for the federal government. And the metal shops of uh HEW. But, uh, There was no advancement then, so I transferred to GSA. But in the meantime, I, uh, I started thinking about, well, a friend of mine told me at work, said you'll never

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get anywhere. In the craft, if you do not get an education. I, I had gotten my high school education through the GED program when I was in the Marine Corps. Oh, while you were in the Marine Corps. You, you probably didn't like, but what a year

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maybe or? Uh, just a few credits and I. So, so you were able to finish, so you did have that. And, uh, I, I kept telling him, Bill, I can't, uh, his name was, uh, Bill Scanlon, my supervisor. He's a chemist. I said, Bill, I, I

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can't, uh, compete with them kids. He said, well, give it a try. There's nothing you can lose. So I did. I, I, I signed up for 6 hours at uh Penn Valley. And, uh. While you were working? Well, I was working and, uh, I started going

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to school nights. And I took 6 hours and I made pretty good grades. About how long ago was this? Or what year? About what? This is back in, uh, 1974. Or three. OK. And, uh, I continued going nights and got my AA. Within 2 years. Then

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I went on over to the University of Missouri and got my BA two years later. And presently I'm working on my master's. At University of Missouri, Kansas City. Yes. OK. Now, what, uh, what is this going to be and what. Well, in my field, my, my

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BA is in history and my, uh, master's will be in master of education. Hm. And I'm continuing working nights now in my present job for general services. Um-hum. So, you work nights so that you're, in order to be able to attend classes in the daytime. Is

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this what you're doing now? And uh. There's no other way I could advance within the federal system without the education. And the breaks that I've had. Um-hum. But within, within this, uh, so, uh, job, this, uh, with the federal agency, have you had promotions? No promotions

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whatsoever. You just, just stayed at 11 field. 11 level or one field. But you, you've been able to work your hours. Right, I'm hoping to, uh, utilize the education I've had. But, uh, I don't know when. I'm hoping for in the near future. Mhm. All right.

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You already told me you were married about 1960. And, um, will you tell me a little bit about your wife or about your children or your family? Well, I. How many children you have? I have two girls. My oldest one Mary Helen, she's uh 16, my

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youngest one is Elizabeth's 8. My oldest one goes to Saint Teresa's Academy. And, uh, my youngest one goes to Bryant school. Elementary school. And, uh. The only reason why uh I believe we're so close to, well I have moved from my old neighborhood now to a

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better neighborhood and the schools are better for the kids. And uh I think I can provide a little bit better education for my kids now. my parents did. Um-hum. OK. Have you been active with any, uh, clubs or any organizations? No, I haven't. Because I haven't

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had the time. You've had to work and study and that has taken up. All your time. Uh, You already mentioned a little bit about what you would like to do, but as you look ahead, uh, more specifically, what, what would you like to see ahead for

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you in the future? Well, my, My thinking is that if I could be able to relate the education that I've learned. To the uh neighborhood of the west side. And help some of the kids that have dropped out of school. Set up some kind of program

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for, So that, uh, they could achieve that high school diploma. Be a better citizen And I think that, uh, I would like to go into that either on weekends, on my own time. Or at night, set up some kind of programs. Well, you could help them.

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You can see how things were with you, and you could see things that could be changed or that affected you in a negative way, and you would like to see that not happen to them and you can profit by your own. Own mistakes. Experiences or mistakes.

00:30:27.540 - 00:30:47.329

That's true. All right, um, And as you look back, is there a, uh, one particular person, Or persons that have influenced you, say, for instance, I know you said that in your choice of jobs or trying to improve your, Your job opportunities. You, you decided that,

00:30:47.750 - 00:31:03.069

well, maybe this mister Scanlon that you mentioned too, uh, that you saw that you needed to have more training, formal training, but is there one other person that you could think of that maybe influenced you a great deal? Well, I, I could still remember my father.

00:31:04.150 - 00:31:25.849

Us to tell us that, uh, No matter what you do, That education will better you. You can go out and wait on tables, work on the railroad. earn their living. But, uh, Never get away from school, so trying the best. And uh that's why. I keep

00:31:26.089 - 00:31:38.930

thinking of what my father used to tell us. Stay in school. So he has been an inspiring force. All right, Mr. Lopez, I think this concludes this interview. Thank you.