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For Mid America's 9:05 June 2, 1976. I'm interviewing, uh, Assistant C city manager Alvin Brooks. Uh, the topic of this tape will be community affairs. Good morning, Mr. Brooks. Good morning, Mr. Peterson. Uh, first of all, Mr. Brooks, uh, may I have your full name, please?

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Alvin L. Brooks. And what's the L, sir? Lee. Lee. All right, what year were you born? 1932 May the 3rd where Little Rock, Arkansas, what hospital? I was attended by a midwife at home. Who was the midwife that I don't know. You do not know. All

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right. What's your mother's name? I have my mother's name is Estelle. I was uh. Adopted Uh, my mother's name is Estelle. My father's name is, uh, Chester. My adopted parents. Your adopted parents, you, you, your, your, your maternal mother's name was Estelle. No, you don't know

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your, your maternal mother. Yeah. What was her name? Thomasine. Thomasine. All right, um. Let me see, how old were you when you were adopted? About two. You were two years old. All right. What type of a family were you adopted into? Southern r, um. Elderly. OK.

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How old was your mother at the time of your adoption? I don't know your father. All right. Were there any more children in the house? No. You were the only child. Only child. Uh, what was your father's occupation? My father, my. Your, your, your guardian father.

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Well, no, my, my, my father, my father was a labor farmer. Oh, you were, you were outside of Iraq. No, well, they, they call it Little Rock, right? It was Pulaski County. Now what, what that means I don't know. All right. You live in the country?

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Yes. Right, um, What was your mother's occupation? Same, uh, on the farm. OK, you, um, We're talking about what, what. We're talking about what year? We're talking about 19 1932, 345 1930. All right. Uh, what, what was the first school that you attended? Kansas City, Missouri,

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uh, Dunbar Elementary. How did you move from Saint from, from, from Little Rock to Kansas City? Well, my, uh, parents brought me, uh, I moved to Kansas City from Little Rock in. About 1934. What were the circumstances? Well, um, My father had a. A sister here

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who, uh, Um, was in, Apparently doing fairly well and we weren't doing too well in. In Arkansas with a uh. Small farm, so he decided to come to Kansas City where. He understood, uh, even during that depression time that things were his chances of getting a

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job and. Surviving or better than they were in Little Rock, Arkansas. Did you have any fear, did you have any recollection of the, of the depression? Oh, yes. Did you, There are later years, of course, uh, I can remember my father working on the WPA. What's

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that? Well, you would ask me what WP stands for, um. Moving right along. Um, It may come to me. I, I should know, and I, and I've talked about it and I, but it was a part of the New Deal era, uh, one of the New

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Deal projects of, uh, of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Uh, it was a kind of a work, it was a work program, uh, where jobs were kinds of public. Improvements that were needed, the federal government provided employment sort of that what that is today and and uh

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so money was provided for these work programs and the WPA was uh. Uh, one of them, let me back up a second. Uh, do, do you makeup is the, uh, work. Something administration, I can't remember what that A stands. I was with that, uh, work project

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administration, I think. OK, now, let me back up just a, just a foot here. Can you give me any information at all about your paternal parents? Do you have any information in the back of your head about? Well, I found out, first of all, I didn't

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know that. Um, The Brookses were not Mr. and Mrs. Brooks were not my real mother and father until I was 21. And that happened just through uh uh. Coincidence. Um, My mother, my, uh, maternal mother had uh. Written to the school district here making some inquiries

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about. Me. And they just stuck the letter into another letter and sent it to me based on the last address they had where I was still living. And uh so uh she was just saying she was trying to locate the uh young man whose birthday was

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5-3-32 and whose last address was this and who to the best of her knowledge uh were in uh had attended the public school and whose father's name and mother's name was this and she gave the Brooks. So when I got the letter, I. Just jotted her

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a couple of lines and uh. You know, gave her the right address and kind of thing, and so then we began to communicate. This was in 1954. This is in the summer of '54. And I was in the. Police Academy. Going through the training to be

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a policeman in Kansas City. And so I, we corresponded for several months and I had my, my mother had passed my uh. Adopted mother had passed in 1950, 4 years prior to that. So she, I had informed her of all this, and my, my father was

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still living, so I asked him about. Mrs. Thomasine Davis. And of course he denied having knowledge of it, but you know I was. Uh 22 years old and uh. Had some concept of of uh. People's reactions at all. I noticed that he was a little troubled

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when I mentioned the name. So finally he uh told me after a while, well after she indicated to me and. The several after several letters that um. Um, She was happy to know that her. One and only son was still alive. So actually your last name

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is Davis. No, no, no. She's, she's remarried. Brooks. No, I, I was adopted, so my last name is Davis, but my, I mean, it, it's Brooks, but my, uh, had I not been adopted. I would have been, I would have been a hearing. My mother, my

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mother has. Is married now to uh Davis. James H. Davidson. But so I would have been a hearing with. Did you ever see your mother? Oh, I've seen her. Sure, you've been, sure, she's visited, uh, in fact, that Christmas of 1954, she came to Kansas City.

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She lives in, in San Francisco. She's in San Francisco now. OK, uh, back to the WPA programs and immediately after the recession, uh, you were moving to Kansas City, right? You moved to Kansas City, right, um. Uh, uh, what did you, what type of, uh, education

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did you get into in Kansas City? Well, I, when I came here I was only 2 years old. You were 2 years old when you came here when I was brought here. It's only 2 years old. We're talking about 1934 and I was born in 1932.

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So, uh, uh, we lived in the Dunbar area at that time known as Leeds. And uh which was the the rule. Part of Kansas City, very much part of Kansas City, but um. Uh, My mother and my father. Mr. and Mrs. Brooks brought me to Kansas

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City in about 1934, but prior to that time, uh. I had an illness that. Wasn't hadn't wasn't, no one was able to diagnose it. Um, so my mother, who had a sister. Lived in Saint Louis. Took me to San Louis. Because there are no facilities in.

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Uh, Little Rock or Arkansas where she trusted or any for blacks at the time to the best of my knowledge. So she took me to Saint Louis and the General Hospital in Saint Louis is still there, the home of G. Phillips Hospital. Where the doctors examined

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me and diagnosed, never were, never told her at least as she can recall what I had, but anyway, they gave me, they said that I wouldn't live to. Be 6 years old. I was about 2 at the time. So, they, uh, She took me back to

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Arkansas. And one of the, you know, it's. You're a little young, so you may not know of the, the herb doctors of that day. But there was one, in fact, my father was one also. Or, you know, you go out into the woods and you gather

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the herbs and you make the teas and this and that and you sell them for. To persons and for various ailments. But anyway, another doctor told my, my, uh, Father and my mother that you are. Put that boy on a on goat's milk. My problem was

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that I couldn't keep anything on my stomach and I was really just dying from malnutrition. Um-hum. But they, no one knew why I couldn't keep anything on my stomach. That's why they could, they never did find out even at Homer G. Phillips Hospital in Saint Louis.

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So anyway, uh, my dad. Took this his colleague's advice. I assume both of them had, I, I suspect neither of them had, I know my dad only had about a, uh, 3rd grade 3rd grade education, and I don't know the other man, uh, what his education

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was, but nevertheless, my dad did buy a goat that was very expensive at the time. A goat that I'm told that gave. Something like 5 quarts of milk a day. And, um, How do you like goat milk? Well, apparently pretty well it's brought me this this

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way this far 444 years now. I, I'm not still on goat's milk, but I, I was on goat's milk up until I was, I drank goat's milk probably up until about 1950, 1952. But um anyway, the goat's milk then did gel with me to the extent

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that I could keep food on my stomach and uh. The kind of Problems that I was having because of the lack of, uh, of, uh, food, or the proper food staying in my body began to go away, you know, like I used to, I had to

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have problems with my eyes and problems with my ears and. Um-hum. And, uh, those kind of things that, and. So, they never was diagnosed though that? Huh-uh. So, my, so I was, I was on goat's milk until, uh, Or I drank goat's milk and on it

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for a while and drank it up until probably about 1952. I was around 20 years old. All right. What, You started school in Dunbar, Dunbar here in Kansas City, Missouri. Who was principal when you started? Oh, I don't remember. The last principal I remember was Mrs.

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uh, Daisy Trice Daisy Adams Trice, yes. Give me some recollect Daisy Trice Adams. Recollect for me uh your early days at Dunbar. Well, what type of? Uh, Well, I didn't start the school until I was 6. Rather than 5, my mother was uh afraid because I've

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been ill for. Ever since she, uh, Uh, could remember, so she decided to keep me out of school a year. So I didn't start school until I was 6. And, um. Even those. Those years uh in elementary school as I go over some of my old

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report cards it shows that I was out of school sometimes more. Out of school uh during a year or more that I was in school. A given year, but I was able to pass. I never failed again at that point? I, my mother thought I was.

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I don't know as I compare myself to other, I don't think so, but she thought that was a playful child. Uh, oh, yes, but she, um, felt that I was. Uh, couldn't make it out there. So, she still had this, uh, this phobia, more or less.

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Well, she just had this feeling that, um, Uh, she wanted me at home to kind of be able to watch me on a day to day basis because she knew the old. And so although I. Uh Even when we moved now this, the, the, uh, discovery

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of what goat's milk. Did for me took place in Arkansas, but after we came to Kansas City my dad bought a a goat. I don't remember whether they brought the goat here or not that I don't know. I don't remember. But uh at that time you

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know when folks travel and we traveled with a with a fellow, a fellow that brought us here in uh 1934 was named Owsley. And um I was his guardian. I was guardian for him after my um. Parents died and he was very senile. Up in age

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and and uh was just died a couple of years ago, 2 years ago in January, but anyway, he. He had a son and some brothers here, but uh. Uh, they were getting ready to send him to, to, uh, Saint Joe because of him being senile and

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this kind of thing. And, and so they asked him if there was anyone who would be his guardian in the probate court. The probate court asked this, and none of his relatives would, so he thought about me. And he contacted me here at City Hall, at

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least his social worker did. And I went to talk to him out of his home and uh told him certainly I'd be more than happy to. To, uh, be a guardian for me. Is he still alive? No, no, he died, was killed by an automobile two

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years ago. He lost his hearing and, and just didn't hear the car and having 20 seconds to say two years ago, and now I am guardian for his wife who asked me to, to. How old is she now? She's 80, um, She'll be 84. 85 this

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coming October. But anyway, um, so I, so by my, uh. Stepping forward in the court and indicating that I would be willing to look after his affairs. Uh, Uh, he was not sent to San Joe but in fact placed back in the home with his wife

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who was at that time. Uh, Able to get around, uh, uh, quite a bit with him and for him so but anyway I, I, I say that to, to indicate that that that this uh uh person Mr. Tom Osley was on his way according to my,

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uh, according to him, uh, for a number of years before he was uh. Before he died, he told me that one day he knew my dad in Arkansas and one day he dropped by the house, my dad's house in Arkansas and said. And he told me,

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he said, well, Brooks, I'm getting ready to leave. I'm going to Saint Louis. And he said, Tom, I want to go to. Kansas City, why don't you take me to Kansas City? He says this is, you know, and then you can go on to Saint Louis,

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you know. So Mr. Osley didn't have any family, uh, you know, and he was, I guess, a relatively young man at the time too, and so he said, OK, I'll take you to Kansas City. I've been wanting to go to Kansas City anyway. So, uh, he,

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uh, drove my dad, my mother, myself and whatever belongings to Kansas City. But he, I don't know about the goat now, but now he didn't drive us. He didn't have a car. He drove us in in in in my dad's car, which was an old convertible

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Dodge, and I forget what they used to call it with the rumble seat. Oh yeah. And we owned that car for a long time. He set up on cement blocks and what year it was. I think it was about a 1928. Which means around 6 years

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old, maybe a little, you know, about 1928 Dodge. And uh I've often heard them as I was coming up uh as a kid them talking about how some of the hills in the Ozarks was so steep that they had to back up the hills that car

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would pull it, pull it and they had to just turn around and back literally back in reverse up the hill. But, um, uh, so that's uh so. We, we came to Kansas City and stayed with my aunt, my father's sister. Uh, this in Dunbar also? This

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was in Dunbar, Leeds Dunbar, and we stayed at 34. I think it's 09 um. Denver, here in Kansas City. And the house still stands there. The house is still there where we stayed. And then eventually my dad got a job. I don't remember what kind of

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job. And uh he bought. I was renting a lot and then built a house on it. Is that house still standing in? No, that house was burned in 1942. But um uh no I'm sorry, in 1940 but um. Uh, He, he was That's where I grew

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up, you know, and it's kind of interesting how, uh. How as I go back in that area today, that many of the houses are still there, many of the people who were friends of my family are still there, and I, it's a very, um. Good, uh,

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Feeling for me and I assume for them too. Uh, to be there, kind of sharing with him, in fact, just the other night, I, I saw one of our former neighbors who, uh, Who has seen me grow up and, Uh, many of them are kind of.

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I get watery eyed and, um, Um, have to clear their throat because of going over some of the things that, that, uh, they can recall of, of, of our lives together as myself as a child and and them along with my parents, you know. Were you

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skinny? I suspect so, yeah. You can tell I'm not too far from that now. Uh, uh, all right, your education at Dunbar. Dunbar Elementary School, yeah. Um, what areas that, that, that, the Young Alvin Books excelled in? Well, I was, uh, interestingly enough as I go

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over those report cards, I was uh above average student. I, uh, even though my, uh, with my, um. Um, Even though, even though my attendance was, um. As I was saying, the Despite the number of absences um during that early childhood. I was still able to,

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Earn above average grades and my grade cards show Sss and M's and occasional E. Can you remember any teachers that stood out among any of the others? Well, I guess, you know, Mrs. um. Trice, uh, who's a principal I guess, uh, and whom I I know

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well now and, and visit occasionally. Um, Was. Was the principal and, uh, Oh, Mrs. uh McGinness. Uh, who I just talked to this week and invited me to a program Sunday, uh, retired, of course, and I don't, uh, remember just right off. Did you run with

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the fellows and everything while you at this point or did your mother permit it? Oh yeah, well, we, there were, you know, you're living in a little community like that, you know, you know everybody, so that who was your best friend? Oh, there were several of

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them, uh, Richard Fuller. Uh, Nelms Randolph, you know, Nelms Randolph, the big fellow works at Gates out at Forty-seventh Street. Oh great, that's Randolph, yeah, he wasn't that big at the time, um. A fellow named Grown man. The girl man, uh, Nelson. These are your buddies.

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Yeah. What was your girlfriend's name at that point? Oh God, I'm. elementary school and all the charisma that Brooks had, you're talking about elementary school, and I, I can't, I can, I, let's move on to high school. Who, what high school did you attend? RT. You

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went to RT. Did you go to junior high school? Well, RT was both the junior. It had the 8th through the 12th. Did you have any rel of race at this particular point as of yet? Oh yeah, sure. I lived, I lived in, uh, the area

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there. Well, after. After my dad built the house at, I think the address was. 34, 21 Quincy, uh, where right now it would be. Right where the, the um Nursing no, no, no, no. You know where the veterans hospital is, OK. It would be just east,

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right in the middle of where Van Brandt Boulevard is right now. That's where, that's that's my house now, right there in the middle, that's, yeah, that's what, that's what happened. And, in fact, where the veterans hospitals is, my dad used to farm all that land. People

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in the Dunbar area thought my dad thought that we were the wealthiest people because every plot of land that was was available, my dad put something on it. They thought you owned the land and Dad never did tell him that he didn't, you know, they would

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say he, he would get to talk and he said, all that's mine. Well, that meant all it was his, the crop. That's right, and he had. Uh, corn and cane and sorghum and Capricorn and. You name it, and it was there we had cows. Oh yeah,

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yeah, we, we had cows and horses and goats, of course we had goats, you know, chickens and ducks and rabbits. Um, in fact, my dad used to sell rabbits, uh, to the restaurants around. Uh, were you still the only child? Oh, yeah, I was the only

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child all through this. Well, was this cultivating instinct growing within you? I see the plants around your room and it's. Oh, no, it's just, it's something that, It's kind of a, a hobby of mine just fool around with playing, but um. But RTC. RTOs, and, uh,

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Tell me about your first year. Well, see, we went there was no junior high for black folks. You know, like an intermediate, you know, junior high, like today, the 7th and 8th graders go to junior high in most cases or even maybe just an 8th grade,

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but we all, we in fact, uh, when, uh, I was saying that when, when our house burned down at 3421 Quincy. Um, My dad then was able to acquire. A house at 3240 Quincy that I own the lots there now. Why did he stay away from,

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let's say Kansas City proper? Well, you know, he had. Been used to. Farming, raising. Uh, whatever, and they, although that was Kansas City proper, you know, you could do anything you want to do out there. It's all black folks anyway, and so there's no running water

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to your homes. Very few homes had running water. All of them had the outhouse and the common in the community faucet in the middle of the block like we had. And then when we moved over to, uh. On 3240 Quincy. Uh, it was a step up

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because of the house was wasn't one that my dad built like he had the other one. In fact, that's probably why the other house burned down so quickly when it was built out of plus they were built, they were just, they were just, um. Concreting uh

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Thirty-fifth Street. Which is south of the veterans hospital and so they couldn't get the fire trucks couldn't get to them. Is that what it was? Yeah, just couldn't get out. couldn't get out. So when they got to the house was down to the ground. It was,

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it was down. It was, it was put itself out by then. What happened in World War II, Brooks? Well, let me just share one of the things you were asking about, um. The, uh, RT Code, well, when we moved over 3240 Quincy, that was an all

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white neighborhood. Well, that wasn't right around the corner, right around the corner, and that was all white. That was all white. Yeah, we were the only house on Quincy in that 100 block up to, up to 30, up to 34th Street. From Lynnwood Boulevard to 34th

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Street, we were the only from 32nd to 34th we were the only house 34th a whole lot of land. Oh yeah, where the where those apartment buildings are down there now called Boulevard Village, all that he had in cane and beets and green beans and Capricorn

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and sorry and that stuff. Oh yeah. Oh, but he had some income and yeah, it wasn't much, but he had some income, uh, but um. So I Uh, we moved there I think about 1941. About a year. A Little less than a year after our home

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had burned at 3421 Quincy. So then I, I, you asked about race and I was trying to lead into that because at that time, uh, prior to that time, I don't think that I did. I was young because you know I was 9, 10 years old

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and living in a black community, very rarely getting out of that black community, you know, going to the black schools, the black church, the black theater, everything black, and so you, you know, it's your black world and then as soon as we got, as soon as

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I began to associate with my. Uh, Peers who were then that then white then I, you know. Learned that I was a ***. Well, how did this? What happened? What was the first incident? Oh, I don't remember that. But I do remember my mother. Uh, you

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know, I was, as we went to school. Uh, I, we didn't go to school together. We went to school. We went in that direction together, um, when we went in 1946, from the first year I went to RT Cole. I was 14 years old and so

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we walked I walked at that time I had a a. 34 cousins had come to live with us because there was another house and my dad ended up they end up trying to buy the other house, my, my cousin. And so it was right all well

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just on two houses on 3 lots, you know, kind of two houses like that close together, little 4 room bungalows. And uh considered modern. At the time without water though without inside bed still about mo the roof didn't leak it was very moderate and he had

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siding on and a porch and windows so it was kind of mode but um It running water? No, no, no. No water. It was running water. We finally had it run in. Um. But it, Can you go ahead. As I was saying, we, we finally, um,

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we had water run in to, uh, both of the houses from the street which was very costly at that time. Um, In fact, uh, I can recall my dad giving the city. Enough land east, uh, front that would have been actually our front yard giving them

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enough land to put a street through the only way they'd bring the street up there he owned this land, yeah, so he had to give it to the, uh, he owned this land. He had to give it to the city for them to put, uh. Uh,

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to run the street through, and they put a fire plug right there, and of course the, the water came up from the fire plug. It was 1 m on the side of the fire plug, and it ran up to both the houses that way, um, yeah,

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we had running water still had our outhouses, but, uh, no, no, no bath, no toilet facilities, just a, just a large bathtub, you know. They were cousins, uh. Relatives of, uh, of my mother, my, uh, adopted mother. Yeah. OK, so when we were walking, the, the

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two, the, uh, two older, well the oldest, uh, uh. Because my cousin was Raymond Raymond Miller. Uh, the other three were still at Dunbar Elementary. 3. Uh, Herbert, Aaron, and, um, Gosh, I, we call him Junior so much, it's interesting now I can't even remember. I

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just saw him yesterday. Um, what was the third one? Well, Raymond, Raymond, Herbert, Aaron, and um Junior, who was um Anyway, Can't even. Uh, uh, well. RT Cos, what was, what was an all black, School. Uh, I think it had industrial education in it also that.

00:31:35.760 - 00:31:54.859

Yeah, it was vocational. It was, it was, uh, uh, RIT called vocational high school, I think is what it's. Well, what was it like? Well, you know, I knew nothing else but that, so it was, it was where all black students who, who were, uh, 8th

00:31:54.859 - 00:32:10.040

graders had to come through. And um, Even if you came from another community and you were in the 8th grade, you went there. If you graduated from the 7th grade, one of the elementary black elementary schools, you went there. So that's why, you know, up until

00:32:10.040 - 00:32:30.680

maybe 1015 years ago, uh, all black students who came out of school knew one another. Uh, well, maybe I'll go back 20 years ago to nice cause I graduated from high school in 1950. Um. And, School so-called desegregation didn't come about until 1954. It really hasn't

00:32:30.680 - 00:32:48.119

taken place yet, but. Uh, at least, uh, some shifting was done in terms of, uh, blacks began to move into, uh, the white schools as whites moved out of those communities and blacks moved in. So how many years did you go to RTT? Uh, 4 years.

00:32:48.239 - 00:33:02.150

4 years. You, you graduated from there. graduated from RT Cole. Well, they really, they really 1950, but they call it Lincoln now, really. You know, it, you know, they consider us now being alumni of Lincoln. Why? I don't know, and I never questioned it. It, I,

00:33:02.229 - 00:33:16.790

I say Lincoln Coal's because some of us went to Lincoln a half day and Kohl's a half day, you know, I took a trade. Who was the principal of Kohl's in? Uh, when we first got there, It was Doctor Thomas and Mr. Mayberry. Earl Thomas, Dr.

00:33:16.880 - 00:33:39.699

Earl Thomas and, uh, Mr. Burt Mayberry. And then uh at Lincoln. God, I don't remember who was friends with Lincoln. But then later on, Uh, Mr. Harwell and Mr. Campbell, Doctor HI, I mean Mr. HI Harwell and, and Mr. A. Levy Campbell were principals and, and

00:33:39.699 - 00:33:58.449

the principal and vice principal, you know Antoinette Brown? Oh, yeah, yes. Did she? She was, she was teaching at Lincoln. She taught me at Lincoln. And then Doctor, Doctor, um, Thomas moved from Coles to Lincoln. And um Mr. West was the vice principal of Lincoln and

00:33:58.449 - 00:34:15.708

Junior College, you know, was at Lincoln, Lincoln Junior College, and Dean Bryant, Doctor Bryant Junior College, yeah, I went there and Dr. Bryant was the Dean of the junior college. That's the first time that's come down. Yeah. OK. So, uh, then, uh, when I graduated, I

00:34:15.708 - 00:34:27.678

had a scholarship supposedly to go to Lincoln University. Just don't graduate yet. What were some of the activities that you were involved with in high school? Not, well, I played in the band. I played, I took, I was taking band as a trade under Mr. Leo.

00:34:27.908 - 00:34:44.790

Band, what would you take? What, what instrument? Saxophone and, um, started out on trumpet, but my, I was, I played mostly all of them. Were you ROTC man? Uh, one semester. I couldn't get notarized. I could, one semester and I'm, that's the only D on my

00:34:44.790 - 00:35:00.649

transcript. Did you play anything? basketball, football? No, no. Didn't play anything, nothing but the regular gym class because I had to work. I worked at the Play More bowling alley. And said pins and. How much do you make? Oh, God, I don't remember what it was,

00:35:00.780 - 00:35:12.879

about, uh, $4 a night, I guess. Give me, give me a couple of other places. $4 an hour? Yeah. A night. A night? A night. Yeah. Oh, so, a couple of other places that you worked at. I worked for the Alliance, uh, drugstore, which used to

00:35:12.879 - 00:35:26.209

be at 55th and Truce. And, uh, one summer I, um. Were you wearing glasses then? I was supposed to, but I stopped wearing them for a while. OK. Cause the only, the only kind I could get was the kind that they, the state gave you or

00:35:26.209 - 00:35:37.850

the welfare gave you and I, uh. Oh. You mean your father had all his income and you were still on welfare. When we first came to Kansas, we were on welfare. OK. Right after we made residents. We were on welfare, I guess, up until about, uh,

00:35:43.379 - 00:36:02.350

I don't know for sure, but we were, we were recipients for, uh. Several years until I guess my dad then. Has anything else happened, uh, traumatically within your life up to 1950 that you can remember? Oh, a lot of things, you know, uh. Well, you know,

00:36:02.429 - 00:36:15.469

I can, I never shall forget going with my mother to the welfare office to get some clothes to go to school, and it seems as though it was, it was either in a church or actually at the office, but the welfare workers were there and I

00:36:15.469 - 00:36:34.699

was kind of skinny and slim as you had indicated earlier that I remember they not having my size. I was 6 years old and I was probably wearing about a 56, and they only had 8s. Which was a pretty good size for me and my mother

00:36:34.699 - 00:36:45.760

said, well, you know, my baby's only 6 years old. And the lady said, well, if you want something to wear, you're going to take what you can get. So she had to take them and then take them up. She got a couple pair of knickers and

00:36:46.209 - 00:37:03.020

a pair of Buster Brown shoes and, uh, a couple of, um, plaid, uh, Wool shirts, a couple pair of long underwear, I think. And, um, she had to cut them out, take, take them, you know, take them out. I'll bet you were excited to see what.

00:37:03.129 - 00:37:17.540

And I had some brown stockings. I know she'll forget those brown stockings, brown cotton stockings that she used to, Make uh garters for them out of uh. Out of, uh, another piece of cloth. Um-hum. And I was taught me how to tie them above my knees

00:37:17.540 - 00:37:32.739

and pulled my knickers down over them. It was interesting. It was interesting. Those are unrecover. Just trying to make it. Yes, sir. I know. But anyway, uh, um. Did you, did you graduate at any particular, uh, spot in your class? I don't remember. You don't. I

00:37:32.739 - 00:37:56.030

remember. I was, uh, The school's choice to represent RT Cole's um. As the their candidate for mayor of Kansas City. In 1950, and then a sister who graduated me, and I cannot think of her name today. I, the teachers, you know, my teachers, Miss McCoin, who

00:37:56.030 - 00:38:09.149

I was very fond of at Coles, and another teacher I don't remember who was helping with my speech, you know, where you go around to all the schools and give a speech, and then you have the citywide election, and then it's determined on who's president, uh,

00:38:09.189 - 00:38:23.969

who's, uh, uh, uh, mayor of this, uh, for a day, and they, they up it about two years ago they still had the mayor for a day, but after that. Uh, in recent years, black students are pretty much dominating that, and, uh, they were predominant participants,

00:38:23.979 - 00:38:43.100

and for some reason they cut it out. But anyway, um, I was the Coles's candidate for mayor. They had an all-out election at Coles, and I wanted to be the candidate from their candidate for mayor to compete in the citywide election. So I was practicing my

00:38:43.100 - 00:38:58.489

speech and I guess I had gotten pretty good at it, but a sister from somewhere down home. Came up unprepared in terms of somebody helping her, but she was prepared, very much prepared. And she just happened to be sitting in the in the audience of the

00:38:58.709 - 00:39:13.889

auditorium where several teachers and some students were sitting around listening to me where I used to go and practice in the afternoon. And she came up and said that she'd like to just. Try the PA system and then his sister started rapping and I told I

00:39:13.889 - 00:39:29.489

told these folks that's the person ought to be representing us out there. And some of my teachers and students didn't want me to back down, but I, you know, I knew talent when I even I was 17 and I, I knew talent when I am. Heard

00:39:29.489 - 00:39:43.330

it in uh 16 or 70, and I had a lot of respect for her. She was a very. A homie type person. I don't remember her name, and I, I can't, I can't find a book with our graduating class picture, but a very kind of person

00:39:43.330 - 00:40:00.760

that when they walk in like they were walking about 3 cornrows at the same time, uh, you know, attractive and unattractive in a sense, but a very articulate and and and and intelligent person. No, she didn't win, but I think she probably made, she was the

00:40:00.760 - 00:40:13.219

only girl I think that time who was a candidate. And I suspect she probably made a better showing than I would have made, uh, regardless of how I delivered, but in terms of my being male and black, see Lincoln had a candidate, so there's two candidates.

00:40:13.699 - 00:40:24.949

But it seems to me that year was the first year. I'm not sure, but I think it was the first year that a black person won, and he was from Lincoln. Oh my God. Yeah, but, and I'm not sure now, but what was going on in

00:40:24.949 - 00:40:41.300

Central at this time? Central was white. I sure in 1950. Nothing happened. Nothing happened. Well, if it was, we didn't know about it. Oh, well, you, you've mentioned one word numerous times, and I know you've been a church man. When did you join the church group?

00:40:42.179 - 00:41:00.110

Um, oh God, I don't know why, um, my, neither my father nor my mother were really churchgoing. Uh, people, although my mother was very religious. And had some problems with the churches. Uh, in terms of she was not of the belief that you had to necessarily

00:41:00.110 - 00:41:15.360

assemble yourself on a Sunday morning to be a Christian. And she lived her life, you know, she live, she lived life, you know, um. Yeah. She, um. You're baptized Catholic, right? But I was baptized in the Baptist church. You were in the Baptist church. But only,

00:41:15.479 - 00:41:28.260

uh, uh, uh, and, and my daughter, I was scared of the water earlier. I just was scared of that water. I was scared and then the people used to embarrass you, you know, and you may not have been having probably coming up in a Catholic Church,

00:41:28.300 - 00:41:41.820

you didn't know about the embarrassment. But um folks used to put the chairs out and they'd make kids lie, and it just literally make them lie about, do you feel like a Christian now, do you feel like you, you know, they put the chairs out and

00:41:41.820 - 00:41:54.379

you sang the song come to Jesus, come to Jesus just now. Uh, you know, we, we had some other words for it. Uh, somebody found a peanut, found a peanut, found a peanut just now. I guess I found a peanut. Well, that's where we got it

00:41:54.379 - 00:42:06.939

from. I don't know I guess it had the same, same tune, but they put the chair out and say come to Jesus and the the kids, the Sunday school teachers would look at you, you know, and real hard, and then you'd get up and go up

00:42:06.939 - 00:42:23.530

there. I remember my little cousin went up one time. He told him yes to everything they ask him. Yeah, when it comes time for for for baptism, he hasn't been back since. We were scared of that water, because we didn't have no, we didn't have no

00:42:23.530 - 00:42:40.449

little #2, 2 bathtubs, and that was enough water for us, man. No, they had a, this one church had a, had a pool in the back, had a a pool in the back of the church, behind the church that they built, but it was kind of

00:42:40.449 - 00:42:53.929

deep, see, but it's interesting, we used to go to the cutoff in the Blue River and swim, but that other little pond in the water, we didn't trust the man either. But anyway, I never, I, when I was growing, I joined church at the Morning Star

00:42:53.929 - 00:43:06.469

as a Baptist, you know Reverend uh uh Simmons. AB Simmons. Who was my neighbor at the time and I had a lot of respect for Reverend Sim and he had a lot of respect for me. In fact, he used to ride with me when I was

00:43:06.469 - 00:43:21.510

in the police department a lot. But I joined Morningstar and then later on, um, uh, joined uh Annunciation Catholic Church. What, what, what brought you to to Annunciation? Well, my, uh, I wanted my youngsters to go to Catholic school. I thought that the Catholics had a

00:43:21.510 - 00:43:37.860

lot to offer educationally as well as religiously and so I just ended up joining and going to the Catholic Church. And, um, my son was in Catholic school. Uh. Joseph Monsignor Mosier. Well, no, I, I said I joined nunciation, uh, I'm sorry, I joined Saint Joseph.

00:43:38.020 - 00:43:52.590

Saint Joseph? Saint Joseph. And my son was going to Santa Monica then. Oh. The old Santa Monica. And then it became Saint Joseph. Who was the priest of Saint Joseph? Father Alvin. Oh, Father. Father Alvin Dean, yes. Uh-huh. Father Alvin Dean. OK, um, um, Out of

00:43:52.590 - 00:44:10.899

you just graduated from high school and did you go to the the junior college section of the of the uh RT at that time? Lincoln Lincoln Junior College. I didn't, I wanted to go to college. We couldn't, apparently we couldn't get in rockers at, well, see,

00:44:10.979 - 00:44:31.709

I had a scholarship, I was told. To go to Lincoln University. Academic scholarship, but Uh, that's the year my mother passed, 1950. She passed March 20th, 1950. No, no, I was here and she was in general hospitals, and, uh, it was in March of 1950. And

00:44:31.709 - 00:44:46.199

so that was the year that we had the short school year, the only year that to my knowledge we had a short school year because of the tax levy. It was only, um, uh, the school let out in April. So, um, about a month before. So,

00:44:46.239 - 00:45:00.080

uh, month or 6 weeks. Anyway, uh, my mother passed and I was out of school. My dad decided to go back to Arkansas during that period of time after she, we had buried my mother. And so he went back to Arkansas, not to live, just to,

00:45:00.330 - 00:45:15.780

he was working for the Missouri Pacific Railroad, so he got a pass, and I guess that's what I really, there were several things that caused me, you know, to. No way. What it meant to be black, colored negro at that time. And what segregation meant, and

00:45:15.780 - 00:45:34.239

I began to feel it. But We went, when he went back to Arkansas for that week or two just to visit some of his relatives and, and some of the old. Uh, places where he had worked and, and grew up. Uh, I missed out on my

00:45:34.239 - 00:45:48.659

scholarship, so when I came back to finish the year and to then graduate. Uh, it was still, it was too late. So that fall I decided I wanted to go into business because I was my best subjects were math. At that time, and, and I could

00:45:48.659 - 00:46:01.919

retain fairly well, and I, and so, but I, but I was advised to go to Lincoln Business College, which is a business college for veterans, which was a real force. It was right after World War II. These were all World War II veterans. It was in,

00:46:01.979 - 00:46:22.189

it was housed right up above in the Lincoln Building at 18th and 99 above Fox's above, um. Mellow. And he had a number of teachers. Some of them were still around. Judge Spotsville was taught law. Fox, Fox's the fellow's name was Fox who owned Mat. No,

00:46:22.239 - 00:46:42.199

no, no, no, I just said Fox, but his name was Fox. He owned Mat. No, no. Judges was teaching law, um, uh. I can't think right now who the who the dean was of the school, the so-called dean. But it was for black veterans and it

00:46:42.199 - 00:46:54.870

was a farce, you know, many of them. It was one of the schools that got caught up in the scandal of, of the 50s where a number of students were enrolled and were not actually attending, but they were getting their checks and paying off either teachers

00:46:54.870 - 00:47:06.600

or administration for, for uh counting them present. And so those of us who were paying our way had some problems because, you know, half the time there wasn't any teachers there or students there, so we went there and we had to turn around. So in the

00:47:06.600 - 00:47:18.469

winter time it was too cold, in the summertime it was too hot. If it rained we couldn't go across the building leaked. So I taught myself pretty much how to type and and had a good typing teacher but She wasn't too interested, I don't think because

00:47:18.469 - 00:47:32.790

of the number of typing right there all that business college accounting, business law and and shorthand. How many people would you say attended the school? Oh, it must have been a couple 100 or more enrolled, but the classes didn't I go to classroom with 3 or

00:47:32.790 - 00:47:49.129

4 people. No, no, no, what? It's strictly segregated all the way. And so anyway, I, uh, there's no indication I ever attended there. I, I was supposed to graduate in December in the last latter part of December of 1952 I think. The school closed down the

00:47:49.129 - 00:48:01.870

first part of December 1952 and nobody ever knows I attended there unless I tell them I've got some of my report cards and some of my papers. I had to pay to go. And I think it was poor counseling on the part of the counselors at

00:48:01.870 - 00:48:14.189

RT Coles to to to advise me to go to that school. They knew that it wasn't accredited. They knew the reputation of it. I didn't know as a student, 17 years old, 18 years old. But anyways, and finally I got started at at the next fall

00:48:14.189 - 00:48:37.739

1960. 1950 Mm Uh, let's see. Well, 1952, I guess it was. So I'm saying 50. I started, Uh, I started in, in, in Lincoln Business College in the fall of '50 and I was supposed to graduate in the. In December '51, that's the way it was.

00:48:38.500 - 00:48:54.969

And so it just, the school closed, no graduation, no records, no nothing. In 1952 I started Lincoln Junior College, graduated from Lincoln with an associate of Arts degree in 1954. And Lincoln Junior College was on the Lincoln High School campus. OK. And so many of the

00:48:54.969 - 00:49:13.449

teachers who taught high school also taught junior college, you know, like, uh, Doc, uh, like, uh, I think Doctor Cameron, Jeremiah Cameron, yes, Jeremiah Cameron, Mrs. Trussy, Mrs. Trussy Smothers, uh, Neil Hereford. Um, Mr. Lee. What type of a teacher was Doctor Cameron? Very good teacher

00:49:13.449 - 00:49:29.540

then, as he is now. Mrs. Smothers, who, who tutored him along, who he had a lot of respect for and everybody had a lot of respect for. Mrs. Smothers, yeah. She's passed two or three years ago, several years ago. Uh, good teachers. Best teachers, good teachers.

00:49:29.610 - 00:49:45.500

Dr. Bryant taught history. Never shall forget Dr. Bryant wrote on one of my papers where I got an A in history. He said this was an A paper, but because you can't write, I'm giving you a B+. Yeah, tell him that. He told me he gave

00:49:45.500 - 00:50:07.699

me a B+ because I couldn't write. He said, boy, you just can't write. But um um Mr. Tillman was an instructor up there. Richard, isn't it Richard Tillman? Yeah, Mr. Tillman, I don't know what he's doing now. Uh, uh, Elio, uh, Mason, Lionel Mason was up

00:50:07.699 - 00:50:20.449

there as a coach. He coached the, uh, gym class, and he got the, I saw him about 2 or 3 weeks ago. He had a stroke. He was, he had a stroke, but, um. I'm glad to say at this point that uh this is a two,

00:50:20.909 - 00:50:52.110

two-part interview. Uh, this, this is September the 31st October 1st, excuse me, 1976, uh 9:49 a.m. on a Uh, Thursday morning, Friday morning, I'm really messed up, man, and um and this is Mr. Alvin Brooks again, and we'll continue the interview. Now. Uh, uh, Mr. Brooks,

00:50:52.979 - 00:51:19.360

go ahead. Go ahead. That the last time we were talking, we were talking about. My uh educational experiences at Lincoln Junior College, which As I indicated earlier, was on the Lincoln High School campus. And I talked about the instructors and their how competent they were persons

00:51:19.360 - 00:51:45.889

like Dr. Jeremiah Cameron, Mrs. Trussy Smothers, Doctor Bryant, Doctor Gerard T. Bryant, uh, Mr. Tillman. Uh, a host of other persons who I would. Certainly today compare with anyone else, anyway. In other words, what I, what I was saying was that, When you talk about competent

00:51:45.889 - 00:52:09.360

teachers and an environment that was certainly conducive To learning. I think those of us who came out of those segregated schools, Lincoln, RC Codes. Uh, Lincoln Junior College, you know, that's. This, do you feel that, uh, that, uh, how, how, how do you feel that really

00:52:09.360 - 00:52:27.459

prepared you, uh, in dealing. In the position that you're in today. You mean, uh, what, that whole experience? That whole experience. Well, Of course, I guess it's just a part of the experience. I can't pull that out, you know, I can't pull it out and say

00:52:27.459 - 00:52:40.419

how much. Did that influence, did that prepare and all that? I mean, it was a part of the whole experience, you know. Well, when you, did you go, did you go to, uh, graduate school at all? Well, see, I got an associate of Arts degree from

00:52:42.270 - 00:53:07.189

Lincoln Junior College and then I went on to, to the old KC University. Kansas. Kansas University. And that was the, uh. Hello. And so it was at Kansas City University where I got my uh. Bachelor of arts degree. In 1959. It took me 3 years based

00:53:07.550 - 00:53:28.850

to get complete the requirements. Because I was not able to go full time, I had to work. That's one of the experiences, I guess, that many persons have, particularly Minority person, particularly black persons who, if they unless they come up with a scholarship or something, and

00:53:28.850 - 00:53:49.739

of course they have responsibilities, you know, I uh I had a family. At that time, I guess I had, um, 3 youngsters. And so working full time at, For the Kansas City, Missouri Police Department. I went on the police department in 1954. And stayed on the

00:53:49.739 - 00:54:07.260

police department from 1954 to 1964. So in 1959 I had had been on the police department 5 years and I was. A detective, but um. I began to work on my masters, again, not on a full-time basis. And I just sort of took my time at

00:54:07.260 - 00:54:25.989

University of Missouri at Kansas City. So I didn't get a master's until 1973, you know, you take courses here and there and here and there, and so. In 1973, I got a master's degree from the University of Missouri at Kansas City. I I don't know whether

00:54:25.989 - 00:54:46.020

we went into the. Work experience in the earlier, our earlier sessions, do we? You recall? Not really, no. Uh, give, give me, uh, some of the experiences you had as a, uh, as a police officer. Well, Um, those 10 years were probably 10 of the most

00:54:46.020 - 00:55:10.679

important years of my life. Because when I went on the police department in 1954. The we adjust. Not too many years prior to that, Came through that period of where. I've been running track in the morning, man, and I, I must, it's, it's affecting one of

00:55:10.679 - 00:55:28.030

my knees or something, and I'm having a little problem with my knees. But that's the, uh, advantage of being, uh, Of, uh, being a seasoned adult. Those things happen. But, um, Those 10 years on the police department, probably the most important years of my life because

00:55:28.030 - 00:55:50.399

uh when I came on. We had, the city had the police department was just getting to the point where black folks could arrest white folks, black officers could arrest white citizens. So I, I did not, I came on the period where we could arrest him. But

00:55:50.500 - 00:56:07.500

the districts were still restricted. In other words, our assignments were strictly to the black districts and that was a quota system, you know, they didn't have an there was actually a quota was a quota system in terms of the number of black officers that that they

00:56:07.500 - 00:56:30.889

would hire. They only hired enough to police those black areas and those black areas, as I recall, were from. Truce to Indiana. I'm sorry, Truce to prospect. And from 12th Street to 23rd Street. Now, uh, That was basically I guess the bulk of the black community.

00:56:31.030 - 00:56:51.300

No no no we we we we drove cars. What I mean is you, you were a uniformed officer? Oh, yes, uniform for 5 years. And we drove cars and the uh The officers who so we we we man those two districts. There were two districts in

00:56:51.300 - 00:57:11.360

that area. There was a district from from 12th Street to 23rd. Truce to Paseo was one district called District 123, and then there's a district from Passeo to Brooklyn. From 12th to 23rd called District 124. A moment ago I said to Prospect but it wasn't, it

00:57:11.360 - 00:57:32.800

was from from uh 12th Street to 23rd, Truth to Brooklyn. And then the district, it was another district that ran from 12th Street to 23rd, Brooklyn to Indiana, but that was, was read by a white officer. So there were 6 officers. Who worked those two districts

00:57:33.219 - 00:57:49.979

around the clock, and we relieved one another. And of course when and and when there was an extra black officer. He rode the wagon, the old wagon used to call the Black Miriah. Black Miriah, and it was named after, uh, and I drove it a number

00:57:49.979 - 00:58:08.260

of times. It was named after a uh a black woman whose name was apparently Mariah. Amara. And I remember the story in the in the paper about that, uh. Uh, I don't know the full history, but apparently she was a, a woman who was arrested quite

00:58:08.260 - 00:58:24.810

frequently by the local police and, and they named the wagon after her, and I, I'm not sure whether. Yeah, it was it was actually a black wagon. Uh, I'm not sure that that originated in Kansas City. My history of, of, uh, of that is not too

00:58:24.810 - 00:58:42.530

clear at this time. So, I don't know whether she was. What was that right when you, uh, when you became a detective? That was it, detective. Before then, I mean as a Patrolman. Yeah. Patrolman. Yeah. Who was the chief of police? Well, I came under Brannan.

00:58:43.060 - 00:59:01.800

Chief Brannan and then Brannan was ousted in 19. 61, I was away at school up at uh. University of Wisconsin at the time, and when I got the papers up there, my wife sent me the clippings and Brandon had been ousted and they had an interim

00:59:01.800 - 00:59:22.010

chief who was then the uh superintendent of the In the hierarchy of the state patrol, a fellow named Hockaday, and he came in and then they hired, uh, uh, Kelly in the fall of 1961. Where was Kelly from Kelly was had just, uh, taken retirement to

00:59:22.010 - 00:59:37.370

join the to become chief from the FBI. And so, from 1961 up until 1973. He had been with the FBI? Oh, yes. He was with the FBI when they hired him. Um-hum. He just, he'd had enough time to take his retirement, see. Um-hum. And came on

00:59:37.370 - 00:59:53.679

the, uh, came on as police chief. Um-hum. Uh, but, so that was, it was the most interesting experience, good experience for me. What type of a of a of a police chief do you, uh, rate Kelly? Well, um, I mean I was not well and I'm

00:59:53.679 - 01:00:17.370

going to do it as as as I felt about him then and and the way I feel about him now. Uh, first of all, in, in my opinion, the Chief Kelly was not a A sensitive police chief in terms of of minorities. Uh, he, he, he

01:00:17.370 - 01:00:44.310

was clearly void. Of the problems that minorities face, he was insensitive. Uh, plus he was not, he had one person who he felt. was was qualified to be administrator, and that was Colonel Lieutenant Colonel Clifford Warren, the late Lieutenant Colonel Clifford Warren. He promoted him, a

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black man. Uh, number of times Kelly publicly stated,