00:00:07.780 - 00:00:36.590

This is Ella Pruitt. I am interviewing Doctor Billy James Taylor at Martin Luther King Hospital. The hospital is located at 2525 Euclid in Kansas City, Missouri. The time is 8:07. The date is February 21st, 1976. We'll begin the interview focusing on Mr. Doctor Taylor's early childhood.

00:00:36.930 - 00:01:07.900

Mr. Taylor Doctor Taylor, will you tell me where you were born, when, also a little about your parents, their background, possibly, uh, their occupation. That's a whole lot of stuff. Uh, I was born in Chattanooga, Tennessee. August 15, 1943. My mother, Winnie Ruth Taylor. Worked as

00:01:07.900 - 00:01:35.209

a maid. Domestic work. Uh she probably finished the 6th or 7th grade. Then she went into the maid work. Father, never really known a father. And the name that I carry, Taylor. Is a name that became common to both me and my sister. Since her father

00:01:35.209 - 00:02:04.730

was named Taylor, so we carried the same name. Oh, I've known. Several Quote, Stepfathers, but no real fathers. OK. Doctor Taylor, do you have one sister, no other brothers, correct? One sister, no brothers. OK. Uh, your education in the South, what elementary schools did you attend

00:02:04.730 - 00:02:28.949

and what was the curriculum there, if you could possibly recall? Well, James A. Henry, well, correction, there were several elementary schools. The first one was Calvin Donaldson, which is located in Alton Park in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I attended there to The middle. Of the 3rd grade. After

00:02:28.949 - 00:02:46.350

that, I went, we moved to the east side because I lived with, My grandmother up until she died, then I moved to the east side with my mother. I attended East 5th Street for about 3 months. Then we moved to the west side and I attended

00:02:46.350 - 00:03:08.350

James A. Henry. And completed James A. Henry, you know, in 6th grade. After the 6th grade I went to 2nd District, which is also located. which was also located on the west side. All of these schools are located in Chattanooga, Tennessee. After completing secondary school, I

00:03:08.350 - 00:03:31.490

attended Howard High, which is located in Chattanooga. From the knife Correction. Yes, from the 9th to the 12th grade. OK. Is that right? No, it's not right. It's from, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade at Howard High. What type of curriculum did the schools in Tennessee offer

00:03:31.710 - 00:03:54.699

at that time? Well, they offered vocational education. A person could get a. Science background if they wanted, they could also. Take up uh secretarial work such as typing shorthand. A person could also learn a foreign language if they wanted to. So I would think the curriculum

00:03:54.699 - 00:04:24.700

is rather broad. Especially since that was the only black school in Chattanooga, Tennessee at the time. OK, now you, uh, Stated You transferred several times during the elementary year. What reason? Well, I lived with my grandmother from birth until she died. And she died while I

00:04:24.700 - 00:04:46.420

was in the 3rd grade. From there, I moved with my mother and I somewhat traveled with her, you know, she would change locations, and I would, you know, move with her. OK, what type of recreational activities were available to you? As a kid back then. Well,

00:04:46.540 - 00:05:07.690

I played on the playground. I played jacks, you know, hopscotch, and all like sponsored by different groups, organizations, say YMCA YWCA. Well, there was a YMCA, but I was not a member. Uh, there was also a local group where, uh, you know, one of the persons

00:05:07.690 - 00:05:25.679

in the neighborhood decided to Have a little club. There was no real name to it, but we would go to his house and lift weights, play basketball and what have you. But it was not an organization like YMCA or YWCA or Boys Club over there. OK,

00:05:25.880 - 00:05:45.269

dealing with religion. Uh, what church during your early childhood did you belong to? Well, I used to attend a Baptist church. You know, because it's influence from my mother, but I soon stopped going to church altogether. At your choice? At my choice. I just stopped going.

00:05:45.730 - 00:06:03.369

OK. Was there a lack of interest maybe because the sermons were too long? What reason? Well, the reason was that I had a lot of peculiar questions during those days. And there were questions which were thought to not be the best thing for people at my

00:06:03.369 - 00:06:27.839

age to be asking. Such as some of the unanswered things that some of the unanswered or unexplained miracles that carried about, and for a child, that's right, the old timers didn't like that. OK, upon entering high school, how soon did you enroll in a college or

00:06:27.839 - 00:06:50.700

university? Oh, let's see, after finishing high school. Which was in 1961. I served 3 years in the army. OK. Were you drafted? Did you volunteer? No, I volunteered because I didn't really have much of a choice. When I, when I finished high school, even before I

00:06:50.700 - 00:07:09.609

finished high school, the future for me looked rather bleak. Because first of all, there was no real encouragement from the family as such. And there was no money to support me if I desired to go to college. So I had to become realistic early, and I

00:07:09.609 - 00:07:27.589

knew that I had no money, no encouragement, and I was not the most outstanding student in school. So that meant there was no scholarship. So I chose the military because I didn't want the new year to catch me standing on the street. Plus, plus. There wasn't

00:07:27.589 - 00:07:39.470

a job available at the time that I finished, you know, because for a while, I used to work at the, in the bowling alley, you know, making 7 in a line, you know, a line is a gig. What age were you? Oh, let's see, I could

00:07:39.470 - 00:07:56.359

have been in about, I was in about 9th and 10th grade. Is that your first? Job? Job. No, my first job, I, uh, had a lot of jobs, you know. And what, how early did you actually earn money? Let's see, I started earning money when I

00:07:56.359 - 00:08:12.609

was about, I guess I could have been about 4 to 5 years old because in Chattanooga, my sister and I used to go around to the white neighborhood and collect buckets of slot, and we used to get a quarter for a bucket of slop and this

00:08:12.609 - 00:08:28.820

guy would come up every Saturday. And buy a bucket of slop for a quarter and I would say that was probably the earliest time that I earned money, but was this a common thing that children in Tennessee, black black children did. It was just what we

00:08:28.820 - 00:08:47.859

were doing because we lived in a, uh, we were somewhat like an isolated black family in a white neighborhood, OK. And not far from us, the so called middle class white people live, and they could afford to throw away good slop and we would collect the

00:08:47.859 - 00:09:08.210

slop. Describe the housing. Well, I can describe the house that I lived in. Right. OK. The house that I grew up in, James birth. It was a house that Was located in a, It, it, it, it, well, it was located in an area surrounded by nothing

00:09:08.210 - 00:09:30.200

but white people. Uh, the house was without electricity, there's no plumbing, and There were not window panes in every window. And as a matter of fact, 1 to 3 of the kicks that I used to, you know, get was when, Dishwater was poured in the sink.

00:09:30.500 - 00:09:50.619

I could run around to the back of the kitchen and see it run out on the ground. Uh, But anyway, the other houses around us were the kind of houses where They required maids to take care of, you know. That's because, you know, the person across

00:09:50.619 - 00:10:06.500

the street was a postmaster, and, uh, well, you know, every once in a while they'd have a cleanup lady. Well, how did they feel about you living in the, in that community? Well, you know, we were just a friendly black family. And they accepted and they

00:10:06.500 - 00:10:21.549

accepted, you know, the group because right next door and down the street from us were a bunch of poor white families. You know, it just so happened, you know, I guess we were just a, a pocket of poor folks who happen to be black and white

00:10:21.890 - 00:10:38.309

in that area. Now, let's go back a little to the bowling alley. You said you were making 7 cents, 7 cents for every game bowl. Doesn't sound like a lot of money, but, uh, You could make a lot of money, but it was a lot of

00:10:38.309 - 00:10:52.549

work. Because what that means is that you would have to set the pins up at least 10 times, you know, 1011 times or whatever it would take to bowl, you know, for that person to bowl the game. And I think at that time, it cost about

00:10:52.549 - 00:11:11.609

35 cents for them to bowl the game, and we got 7 cents, you know, which probably isn't a bad percentage, but it's probably bad because we did all the work. OK, now, upon entering college, when did you enter and what? OK, I went to college in

00:11:11.609 - 00:11:43.739

1964 after leaving the military. I attended Tennessee State, Tennessee A&R State University, which is located in Nashville, Tennessee. OK. Let's back up a little here. I didn't cover the military well enough. What branch of the military were you in? Well, I was in the army and

00:11:44.000 - 00:12:02.070

I guess July, well, first of all, you know, I tried, when I finished high school, I decided that I'd go to the military. And my choice for branches was the Navy because I felt that there weren't a lot of soul folk in the Navy. At the

00:12:02.070 - 00:12:15.820

time, the attitude was that uh, It was the smartest organization, not because they didn't have a bunch of blacks in there, but you know, I said, well, you know, maybe I'll go to this organization, you know, because it'll make me look like I'm really something, you

00:12:15.820 - 00:12:27.179

know, I'm in a group and everybody said, Hey, there aren't a lot of folk in there, so it must be tough to get in, OK? And it was, and it wasn't because of the standards were so high, it was just because they just weren't accepting a

00:12:27.179 - 00:12:44.030

lot of blacks like in a lot of other things today and back then. Well anyway. Uh, I passed a little preliminary exam and all, and I went to Nashville, Tennessee, farthest I've ever been from Chattanooga, Tennessee. At that stage of the game at faster. Uh, prior

00:12:44.030 - 00:12:58.109

to that, the farthest had been Cleveland, Tennessee, which was 40 miles, you know. But anyway, I went to Nashville, Tennessee, and I shook hands with everybody, told them I was going and everything, and at that time I would have taken 20 years if the man had

00:12:58.109 - 00:13:15.760

said, sign here, son. I'd have signed for 20 years, OK. Now, I got to Nashville, Tennessee, and I didn't pass the other test for whatever the reason, OK, because at that time it was not necessarily a pass and fail. It was we got a cutoff score,

00:13:15.840 - 00:13:32.750

whatever that was, and we'll accept everybody above here, you know, above, yeah, above whatever. I was pretty disappointed because, you know, that was really my life, you know, that was. Really rough. But anyway, so I came back to Chattanooga feeling down and out like, you know,

00:13:32.830 - 00:13:47.590

you, you're told that you're supposed to feel when you failed at something. And I had to choose another way out. OK, now this was in, uh, June this time I was trying to get the Navy and I had to choose something else. And I checked the

00:13:47.590 - 00:14:02.789

Air Force out and I considered the Marines, but the problem was by checking them out, you mean you were, well, I considered them and I didn't go to, you know, anything. I just considered and said, what are the qualifications and requirements? Well, one of the requirements

00:14:02.789 - 00:14:17.840

for the Air Force as well as the Marines was that you had to have a birth certificate. Well, I didn't have a birth certificate because I was not born in a hospital. I was born at home by a midwife, and the bad thing is that I

00:14:17.840 - 00:14:32.719

learned later on is that my birth was never registered. So that meant that when I would scrape up a dollar because during these days I didn't have a job, I'd go to the funeral homes. Hodricks is one of the funeral homes in Chattanooga that I had

00:14:32.719 - 00:14:50.210

trying to get my, um, Versity, which is located on 9th Street, East 9th Street, Soul Street, OK, uh, anyway. Anyway, uh, I didn't get the birth certificate, so I couldn't go to the Air Force, and the only kind of record that I had was my high

00:14:50.210 - 00:15:03.409

school record, you know, showing that I, you know, 10 number of years old. So time was running out, and I didn't want the new year to catch me, meaning school year, and I wanted to, I figured that. If I ever decide to go to college, I'd

00:15:03.409 - 00:15:15.070

like for it to be a smooth year, you know, I'd come out in the middle of the year or that year because I always thought that school started in September and what have you, not knowing that college is on semesters and what have you, you know.

00:15:16.690 - 00:15:32.280

Semesters and quarters. OK, anyway, anyway, I, uh, decided upon the army, OK, but I was a little wiser then, OK, and I re-studied all my math and English and stuff in the event that there was something that I was short at, you know, so. I went

00:15:32.280 - 00:15:43.239

to the army and I talked with them and I passed the test because it was all hat to me then, you know, no longer did I have the, the shock of failing. I didn't have to worry about it because I'd already failed before, you know, I

00:15:43.239 - 00:15:55.609

thought that I'd failed, so I acted a little different. Well anyway, I said I'd joined the army and I joined the army on the basis that I'd get to be airborne, you know, I want to be a paratrooper, you know, I said, I'm not going for

00:15:55.609 - 00:16:10.859

adventure, you know, uh. So I got in, you know, I went to the army. Uh, they sent me to Fort Knox. Went to Knoxville and from Knoxville that was induction center in Knoxville where they swore us in and you know I said I'd do it blah

00:16:10.859 - 00:16:32.309

blah blah and from there we went to Fort Jackson. Fort Jackson, I went to basic training. Uh, I also took advanced infantry at Fort Jackson, which My MOS was I think I know MOS was 112 because that, I think that's the heavy weapons MOS, you know,

00:16:32.349 - 00:16:47.070

what you deal with the cordless rifle in the morning and what have you. And after that while I was in basic training during this time, I think it was about what was late in 19 well it wasn't late, it was mid 1961, President Kennedy, I think

00:16:47.070 - 00:17:14.449

he had become president then I believe and Yeah. He came out with a plea for his special forces organization. And the recruiter that came around made it sound pretty interesting because, you know, in addition to being a paratrooper, it included things about scuba diving, learning languages,

00:17:14.569 - 00:17:31.670

going overseas and wearing a green beret, you know, so I thought that was pretty snazzy and I always thought that I could cut it, you know, at least physically, and I was young then but I think I, when I was 17, probably going on 18. And

00:17:31.670 - 00:17:47.219

I said, well, I'll try this one anyway. I went, after finishing advanced infantry training, instead of going to junk school, which I normally would have done had I not signed all these papers for Special Forces. They sent us all at Fort Bragg, about 80 or more

00:17:47.219 - 00:17:59.760

of us. And when we got off the bus, The first thing the guy told us was that if you don't want to be here, we don't want you here. And that was unusual because, you know, you you say, well, you know, this kind of work we're

00:17:59.760 - 00:18:11.630

going to be doing, we know they're glad to have us. Um. But they weren't, you know, they just said basic stuff, you know, and I thought that was good. But anyway, after that while it bragged, Ran up and down hills for 4 or 5 weeks. Then

00:18:11.630 - 00:18:29.239

they sent us all to Fort Benning, the people who had, you know, managed to survive the up and down hill trials, OK? Um-hum. So they sent us to Fort Benning. Fort Benning is where they have centralized, or where they had centralized. Airborne training because prior to

00:18:29.239 - 00:18:46.790

that, you could go to Fort Bragg and be with Eighty-Second Airborne Division for jump school or you could go to Fort Campbell, the 101st Airborne Division, where, which is where I thought I was gonna go anyway, you know, had I not, you know, chose to go

00:18:46.790 - 00:19:02.410

to Special Forces, but the beret was, you know, something to get anyway, anyway, uh, we went to jump school, spent 4 weeks down after jump school. I, you know, I earned my jump wings and had to make 5 jumps, and I thought that was really cool,

00:19:02.469 - 00:19:17.839

you know. And after, you know, getting my jump when they sent us all back to Fort Bragg. Fort Bragg, they gave me a medical MOS and from there we took various phases of training, OK? And I probably won't say any more about, you know, what the

00:19:17.839 - 00:19:33.300

training consists of, you know, because of. Right OK. But anyway, after completing all the training and things necessary for getting in Special Forces, I was assigned to the 7th Special Forces Group, you know, and I earned a beret, and I really thought that was really cool,

00:19:33.420 - 00:19:51.300

you know, having a beret, uh, because I felt then and knew that I was among the country's best. I was, that was it. Uh, then after that, after, uh, making the group, I had just a group is, is what they, you know, call the special forces

00:19:51.300 - 00:20:09.530

organizations group. Anyway, once I got the group, I had about 78 months left and I had a choice of either re-enlisting or getting out. And I chose to not re-enlist because I decided that I could always go back in the service. And when you go back,

00:20:09.569 - 00:20:23.770

when you get out of the service, And stay out over a certain period of time, you lose, you know, you go down on the rank, OK? And I'd made E5 before I'd gotten out, you know. Which is, you know, which is pretty good for a number

00:20:23.770 - 00:20:43.599

of years. But anyway, I may be fine and I decided to get out. Because I wanted to go to college, and while I was in college, I'm not correction, while I was at Bragg, I met a friend named Clarence B. She Yeah. Going to high school

00:20:43.599 - 00:20:55.910

with me, he and I had taken a geometry class together, and, as a matter of fact, he was one of the teacher's favorites because he lived out east where she did and she knew him, you know, so he was a favorite, and it's always good when

00:20:55.910 - 00:21:07.560

you were in high school for some teacher to say, Hey, Johnny Jenks or whatever your name is, cause, you know, I went to school with your uncle, and you know you feel like, you know, I feel comfortable, you know, as opposed to not knowing people, you

00:21:07.560 - 00:21:24.800

know, but anyway. Clarence Clarence Fern had gone one year to college, Tennessee State, but he was in the service, he was in the service with me, but instead of going in the army like I did, he went to Tennessee State for a year. OK, so we

00:21:24.800 - 00:21:38.400

met each other and we discussed going to college and what have you. And uh during this time, he had a girlfriend back at state and they were always writing letters and I was always good at giving people philosophy and advice, you know, and I could say,

00:21:38.479 - 00:21:53.130

well, you know, do this, do that, you know, and the advice was pretty good, you know, not being. Uh, I guess patting myself on the back, but, you know, that, that's pretty good stuff. Well, anyway, He'd given me the lowdown about Tennessee State and how nice

00:21:53.130 - 00:22:04.930

it was and what have you. But he admitted that he didn't do as well as he should have done, and, you know, he probably tried again, and once he got out of the service. For what reason do you recall? Was it because of lack of preparation?

00:22:05.199 - 00:22:26.630

Well, I think it had more to do with the combination of things, you know, he, uh, Probably economics and financial support that was probably the biggest. And like most people that go to college without uh Financial and home encouragement, you just don't. I don't know, you're

00:22:26.630 - 00:22:42.670

just not motivated. Yeah, you're just not motivated, you know, you're just going to school, but anyway. Anyway, Clarence and I talked about college off and on, and he too, uh, had become a member of Special Forces. You know, one day, uh, after coming from out of

00:22:42.670 - 00:22:57.310

the field, you know, the lights went on in the dayroom where all the GIs would sit and watch TV and use profane words, you know, that were appropriate for whatever was on TV. Uh, the lights came on and I saw him, he saw me and we

00:22:57.310 - 00:23:10.949

recognized that we're going to Howard High together and, and it was nice because it was like a family reunion in the sense that here you are with Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and there's somebody that you know, you know, it's really close, you went to school together

00:23:10.949 - 00:23:25.859

and what have you. Well anyway, After I got out of the service, or before I got out, I'd sent my money in for tuition at Tennessee State, and I'd been accepted, and my choice for Tennessee State was that I was a state student, and I knew

00:23:25.859 - 00:23:43.550

that they'd have to accept me because you were, because I was a state student, so because rejected, yeah, because my grades were shaky, you know, I didn't have a fancy transcript, you know. And uh I had thought of going to Knoxville College because Knoxville College, Fisk

00:23:43.550 - 00:23:59.599

University, Morehouse, and what have you were somewhat Ivy League black colleges. OK. And I knew that I couldn't go to Morehouse, Tuskegee, this school because when I was in high school, I always got the impression that they were accepting the cream of the crop, and I

00:23:59.599 - 00:24:18.810

didn't consider myself cream of the crop because when I was going to school, I had a lot of, of uh Well, Maybe I, I, I think that I internalized a lot of the Socio-economic problems that our, that our family found itself in that I shouldn't have,

00:24:19.180 - 00:24:36.750

such as, uh, you know, I, I, I was sitting around worried about rent. Water and light because, you know, ordinarily kids shouldn't be worried about this kind of thing. But I was because I had the experience of having our lights cut off once or twice, the

00:24:36.750 - 00:24:50.349

water cut off and no heat and you know, moving in apartments, moving out, you know, no rent and stuff like that, you know, and this is a lot of pressure on a person that's in 11th and 12th grade, you know. As a matter of fact, when

00:24:50.349 - 00:25:04.770

I was a senior. When I was a senior, I didn't have a heavy coat to wear and it got awful cold in Chattanooga when I was a senior. And uh you know, also during this time it's when the bowling alley had burned down, so there really

00:25:04.770 - 00:25:20.449

wasn't a source for money, you know. But anyway, back to this arm business when, uh, when, uh, I chose Tennessee State, I chose it because I knew that I could get in Tennessee State. And I felt that if I got in, I was gonna stay there,

00:25:20.670 - 00:25:36.069

you know, I figured I'd be able to cut it, you know, because, uh, early in life, I developed some, you know, what I thought was a pretty fair life philosophy, and I was able to internalize or make a part of me. The good things, the people

00:25:36.069 - 00:25:51.890

that I had come in contact with, you know, because as I look back, I wonder sometimes how I really didn't make it, you know, if I've made it now, because, uh, You know, the, the single solid encouragement was never in my career, you know, I could

00:25:51.890 - 00:26:07.224

never look back and say, oh, I've got this uncle, this son, this mother, father, or somebody, or this teacher or whoever that is really motivating me on, you know, I didn't have that, but what I can look back and say is that um you're saying. Motivation,

00:26:07.314 - 00:26:23.214

not maybe motivation just for someone to say that you can do this and you can do. I didn't have that financial, not well, financially that was out of the picture because nobody had anything, you know, to offer, you know, but the point is that most people

00:26:23.635 - 00:26:39.859

who make it in life can look back and say. I was down and out and ragged this crowd and this person came along and lifted me up and gave me inspiration. Well, I can't say that because I didn't have that, but what I did have is,

00:26:40.209 - 00:26:54.250

you know, I guess maybe the ability to. Pick out the things that I could use and the things that I couldn't use, I left them alone, you know, just like uh You know, going through a garbage can, all of its trash, but if you look, you

00:26:54.250 - 00:27:09.119

may find something that you can use, you know, and, uh, you know, that's the way it was, you know, I had friends who later ended up going to jail for a whole lot of things, you know, but for some reason, I never became a part of

00:27:09.119 - 00:27:26.500

that, you know, I never had to just do those kind of things, you know, and I always wanted to go to Pikesville. Pikesville is a place. This close to Chattanooga where they send boys, which is a reformatory school. Yeah, my desire to go to a reformatory

00:27:26.500 - 00:27:43.780

school is because of my Well, because of, of what I thought were basic needs, you know, like, uh, warmth, clothes, food, no worry, you know, this kind of thing. And that was my reason for wanting to go, you know, and plus the guys that went to

00:27:43.780 - 00:27:58.069

Pikesville, friends that I knew, always wanted to go back. You know, they'd come out and steal again or to get back or rob or whatever they had to do. Now I don't know if they did that to get back, but they seem to not care about

00:27:58.069 - 00:28:10.890

going back, you know, and I used to enjoy listening to the stories that they would tell, you know, they would be fighting and, you know, you know, so. You know, that was it. See, and I grew up or I came from that kind of environment where

00:28:11.250 - 00:28:27.910

people fought on Friday night, wasted their money at the joints and dimes, uh, went to jail Saturday night. Uh, women didn't press charges, and the friendship that they broke up, they would start out anew, and this would happen week in and week out, you know, and

00:28:27.910 - 00:28:39.560

this is the kind of, you know, this is where I came from, you know, and these are the kind of people that I know, you know, this is just it, you know, and, uh, you know, it's, you know, that's why sometimes I look back and really

00:28:39.560 - 00:28:54.300

wonder how, you know, how I came out of it, you know, and, uh. I don't know, maybe there was some guiding light that I just didn't recognize was a light. But anyway, I ended up going to uh Tennessee State and I felt that if I could

00:28:54.300 - 00:29:10.719

get in state, that I would stay there because of uh my military background, my early life philosophy that I would adopt for myself. And with the military, I really felt that I had to have that military. And the reason why is because it, it gave me,

00:29:11.020 - 00:29:31.040

it gave me somewhat of a universal identity in the sense that, uh, besides just having philosophy, Of life, I could say. Well, I've been in the military and I've served for 3 years. Because I felt that I was associated with a big organization. And that I

00:29:31.040 - 00:29:49.069

was associated with a meaningful organization. And having that plus the life philosophy that I had adopted for myself and uh To go out on a tangent, the way I ended up adopting a life philosophy is that I had a friend named Walter Stephens. We used to

00:29:49.069 - 00:30:08.449

call them slick. Slick and I, we met when I, when we moved to the west side. I was in 3rd grade. And I used to think Slick was pretty cool because he's pretty muscular looking guy, bigger than me, uh, and he wore brogans, you know, brogues,

00:30:09.219 - 00:30:22.579

and every year his dad would buy him some new rogues. And every morning he'd have 50 cents for lunch, and I never did have 50 cents for lunch money. Sometimes I wouldn't have lunch money, but I'd have a lunch, and I just didn't want to bring

00:30:22.579 - 00:30:35.530

the lunch, you know. So I would try to get that free meal at 120, OK? You know, because I wouldn't have the lunch, OK? But it wasn't because the lunch wasn't provided. I just didn't want to bring the lunch, you know, because occasionally we'd have potted

00:30:35.530 - 00:30:49.619

meat, bologna and stuff like that, you know. And, uh, the thing about it is that, There wasn't always some wax paper to cover the sandwich with, and when 12 would come, you know, for lunch, it'd be kind of hard, you know. Um. Because during those days

00:30:49.619 - 00:31:06.640

they'd use wax paper and they didn't have saran wrapping on it. Not that we're talking about antique date, but. Anyway, we didn't have the, the, uh, all the things that went into making the lunch, you know, like mayonnaise, mustard, sandwich spread, and wax paper, a nice

00:31:06.640 - 00:31:20.180

neat paper bag. We didn't have that, so, you know, I wasn't too happy to carry a lunch, you know, because, you know, potted meat without mayonnaise mixed in it just wasn't, didn't cut it, it just wasn't too good, yeah. Wait anyway, Slick always had 50 Cent.

00:31:21.219 - 00:31:37.020

And uh he and I became friends now because at 50 Cent, because we lived two yards across from each other and uh he had a pretty good imagination, you know, made pretty good sounds, you know, like sounds of guns and spears and cars and things like

00:31:37.020 - 00:31:48.780

that, and he could tell pretty good stories, you know, and you know, every day we'd go home, we'd have him tell us a horror story, you know, and he could always come up with a good story, you know, but during that time, Slick was just like

00:31:48.780 - 00:32:02.930

either of us. Except we had a pretty high temper and every once in a while he, he and I would get in a fight, you know, he'd be the bigger. Kind of taken aback, OK. Well anyway, Slick lived with his father and an older brother. His

00:32:02.930 - 00:32:17.680

older brother was maybe 3 years older than he was. And, uh, he didn't have, you know, he didn't live with his mother. His mother and father separated. Slick lived on slept with his father and his brother slept in the kitchen on an army cot, you know,

00:32:17.910 - 00:32:27.189

and it was just, it was just a, it was just clean as a pen, you know, it was just um, they were just, I don't know, it was just a, I kind of thought that it was a good environment because he had a father and I

00:32:27.189 - 00:32:42.599

didn't have a father, OK, and I could appreciate that, OK. Because I didn't have it and I could see the value, and the thing that I noticed earlier in life was that um Kids who had a mother and a father had more than kids who didn't

00:32:42.599 - 00:33:00.890

have but one. I can see more affection. No, not affection, but when I say more than, I mean material things, you know, I like clothes, you know, new shoes, toys and what have you, OK, those kinds of things. And that's still today too, but anyway, anyway.

00:33:01.930 - 00:33:18.020

The reason I mentioned Slick is because he's pretty influential in my final developing life philosophy. Now I was sharper than Slick because I grew up kind of quick because um after we sold slot for nickel and stuff like that early in the system. And I could

00:33:18.020 - 00:33:30.939

find my way around town pretty good because I started riding the bus early and I could transfer, and I thought that was cool, you know. During these times, were you riding the bus sitting where you wanted to. No, it was the back of the bus tickets.

00:33:31.270 - 00:33:43.130

Did, were there still signs? Sure, there was a sign. What did the sign say to you? Well, the sign said, uh, You know, color on the back. You know, and they had a line on the bus, and we usually sat back there, you know, and I

00:33:43.130 - 00:33:56.949

didn't grumble about that because, you know, I just said, well, you know, this is the way it is, you know. And I was just happy to be able to know how to ride the bus. Let me ask you this right now. Were you ever, Publicly embarrassed

00:33:57.290 - 00:34:15.019

or. No, I was. No, I was, well, let's see, not on the bus, you know, that. But in Tennessee, you know. Well, I suppose, let's see. Well, you know, working in a bowling alley, oh, for, for whites only. Sure enough, you're going to be called a

00:34:15.019 - 00:34:27.339

*** if you don't set the pins fast enough every once in a while, you know, and I think we would holler out some profane words. Back to. Yeah, you know, and every once in a while, some of the guys would actually go out there and fight,

00:34:27.418 - 00:34:46.199

you know. You know, these are the bigger guys that work back there same. Black, the black. Yeah. Well, you know, even if they, uh, even if it came to a fight. And maybe the white person was uh. Beat up. What could the black youth possibly been

00:34:46.199 - 00:35:05.449

jailed? Well, you know, and, uh, 10 in Chattanooga during those days, real early days, uh, we had, they had a thing called the black Mariah. Right morale, that's what we call it white morale or something. I was a black black. But anyway, the only people I

00:35:05.449 - 00:35:18.689

ever saw in there were black people, you know, black men who were picked up on East 9th Street. Remember I said that's on Soldier Street, and those were the only people I ever saw in there. You know, and these are the days when there were very

00:35:18.689 - 00:35:40.760

few, if any, black policemen. But, uh, you know, I. Did you ever personally, uh, witness maybe a black man being beaten or a, a lynching? No, I didn't see any. I probably wouldn't have minded seeing something like that, not to see somebody get, uh, in particular,

00:35:40.879 - 00:35:54.239

something like that happening, but, you know, I just never did see that. Not that I wanted that to happen. Um-hum, you know, just as part of a life experience, like, I never saw anybody's parachute fail to open, you know. Oh. But I wouldn't have minded seeing

00:35:54.239 - 00:36:07.010

something like that for the sake of a life experience. Um-hum. Not for anybody in particular, you know. And at times I had thought while I was in the service that, I wouldn't mind that happening to me, so I could see if I'm going to do the

00:36:07.010 - 00:36:27.590

right thing. Anyway, go ahead. OK, back to to the university at Tennessee. At the time you joined the university, what was college like? Well, anyway, I got this business about sick, how it, uh, you know, related to my life philosophy. Uh, the thing about it is,

00:36:27.610 - 00:36:43.500

uh, Walter Stevens was in a way a little different than I was because, uh, you know, in addition to living with his father and brother. Um, he had a big brother to look up to. Uh, Walter met another person named Calvin Johnson. Calvin Johnson was in

00:36:43.500 - 00:37:02.320

our 3rd grade class. Calvin could read very well, OK. And Walter Stevens became a friend of Calvin's and Walter started reading. I never did, OK. But Walter anyway influenced me to start reading, so I joined the Bookmobile, which used to come around the James A. Henry

00:37:02.780 - 00:37:17.219

Elementary School where I went to elementary school. And I would pick a book or two up, you know. Then after that, you know, the cause of the My internalizing the social strife that we were having and, you know, within the family, uh, you know, I just

00:37:17.219 - 00:37:30.459

didn't stick with the reading the way I did, but I hung a stuck close to Walter, OK? For Walter was reading, I was out on the street finding out how I could find some bottles and coat hangers to sale and things like that to pick up

00:37:30.459 - 00:37:43.360

a nickel or a dime, you know, and, uh. That's the way I went, so I became wise to the streets and somewhat the ways I've been as opposed to Walter, OK? But I could always go to Walter's and talk with him because he would tell me

00:37:43.360 - 00:37:56.479

all the good stuff that he picked up, you know, and he was well read, just read everything, you know. And as a matter of fact, when I started playing chess because of Walter. I could beat Walter because I could, you know, just a little sharp than

00:37:56.479 - 00:38:12.709

he was, not because I'd read, but I could, you know, I could mechanics of the moves now. But anyway, Through Walter, I ended up becoming interested in philosophy and I learned uh a few philosophers' names and I ended up learning a few composers' names, you know,

00:38:12.790 - 00:38:27.790

and I ended up getting in the 12th, 10th, 11th, 12th grade and, uh, you know, I was somewhat trying to become cultured, OK? And I kind of learned to appreciate classical music and, you know, things like that. And during this time, we used to go up

00:38:27.790 - 00:38:42.679

to the University of Chattanooga, which uh Was an all white university. And it was the public library, but they didn't let blacks come in there, OK. But you could get a book at the bookmobile, OK. They wouldn't let you come to the library if they bring

00:38:42.679 - 00:38:55.919

the bookmobile out to you, OK. Well, a few years later they ended up, you know, disbanding that and they allowed us blacks to come in, you know, I used to enjoy going in there occupying the music seat, you know, because, uh, You know, in other words

00:38:55.919 - 00:39:08.040

somewhat of a defiant move, you know, to show these folks I'm gonna listen. So, you know, I've listened, you know, and I found myself sitting up there a lot, you know. As a matter of fact, when I got ready to go to the army, I think

00:39:08.040 - 00:39:25.750

I reviewed the, you know, my math and English and what have you in the, in the library. But anyway, you know, in my dealings with Walter, I ended up developing a life philosophy of reinforcing one that just happened upon me. And uh anyway, I said that

00:39:25.750 - 00:39:43.139

with my life philosophy and my background for having been in the military, I uh Felt that I'd be able to cut it in college, OK. When I got to college, Yeah, right before I got out of the army, I took a few few refresher courses. I

00:39:43.139 - 00:39:56.889

took one in English because I knew that my English was poor, you know, and uh probably still is, but The reason that I don't worry about it now is because I don't have to. The important thing is whether or not I can communicate, you know. Now,

00:39:56.959 - 00:40:11.739

if I were, uh, intending to write something, uh, some article or something like that, then, you know, I would do what I have to do to write that article, right, you know, but it's not important, you know, uh, anyway. Before I got out, I took a

00:40:11.739 - 00:40:29.649

uh Refreshing English course and during this time, you know, You know, I was not sure of parts of speech or anything. As a matter of fact, when I was in the 12th grade, my English teacher, Mrs. Wright, gave me an F for the 1st semester, and

00:40:29.649 - 00:40:43.219

I ended up making it up in the last semester because I could. You know, I was pretty good at literature and I could make a graph and so, you know, so she let me pass, you know, and informed me that she's letting me pass, but she

00:40:43.219 - 00:40:54.469

really wanted to flaunt me, you know, and, and, you know, I guess maybe I could have been kind of a smart addict, you know. So, you know, Teach him a lesson, you know, so luckily she let me pass, you know, and I was glad she let

00:40:54.469 - 00:41:09.030

me pass too, you know, so I didn't wanna repeat that. Nobody likes to fail, you know. Well anyway, out of a class of about 300, I guess my rank was in the neighborhood of, oh, could have been 230 something, and that meant I was way down

00:41:09.030 - 00:41:29.300

there, OK, anyway. Anyway, the thing is, when I took this, uh, refresher course in English, I, uh, enjoyed it because in the class, there were other people who couldn't even talk, you know, a few Puerto Ricans and You know, Spanish-American people and what have you, and

00:41:29.300 - 00:41:40.340

I used to go home and, you know, go to the barracks and study, you know, and learn my part symbols and like, you know, I was weak on part symbols, you know, but uh, you know, I was worse than on the parts of speech, you know,

00:41:40.419 - 00:41:56.139

and I got pretty shy and I could diagram sentences and I started enjoying, you know. Uh, but anyway, I was a little sharp, I'm much sharper than they anyone, OK. And I also took a course in, uh, Refresher algebra or something like that. I also took

00:41:56.139 - 00:42:10.479

a course in electronics, which I didn't like, but I passed, but uh, I didn't like it, you know, I would have done better in algebra two or something, you know. Well, anyway, when I got out of the service, You got to Tennessee State. They give you

00:42:10.479 - 00:42:27.199

an entrance exam, OK, but automatically because of the grades that I had in high school, that already put me in remedial English, OK. And when you're starting out and trying to do what you call good, you don't want somebody to put you back, OK? And you

00:42:27.199 - 00:42:42.530

wanna feel complete like I'm a full class freshman, OK, but they had me in remedial English, but luckily I scored pretty good on that entrance exam. So, uh, they gave me real English, so to speak, OK, and there were an awful lot of students in that

00:42:42.530 - 00:42:58.800

remedial English too, and I felt good knowing that I wasn't, OK. Now, right before I went to Tennessee State, I had to decide what I was going to major in, and I said, Biology. No, biochemistry or something. Well, anyway, when I got to Tennessee State, I

00:42:58.800 - 00:43:15.750

thought that biochemistry was not what I wanted and I, you know, come out better major in biology, because I wanted to deal with plants and animals and what have you, especially animals. So, uh, I stayed in biochemistry, but I was kind of, Deflated in the sense

00:43:15.750 - 00:43:33.020

that. Biochemistry comes under the Department of Agriculture, OK? And when you think about agriculture, there are no farmers out there, they aren't smart, you know, but anyway, I hung in there with biochemistry and I was able to Choose my curriculum, you know, and I, you know,

00:43:33.300 - 00:43:47.790

took a lot of hours and what have you. And uh since I've saved my money in the army, And during this time, the GI bill hadn't been passed. Uh, I felt comfortable financially, you know. Oh, and you didn't have a job. No. At all during this

00:43:47.790 - 00:44:02.600

time. It's just your savings. It's just money saving or, you know, cause I, What type of housing? Where? At. At state? At state. Tennessee? Well, at the time I got there, they had built the new man's dorm, the new man's dormitory, and I lived there. OK.

00:44:02.719 - 00:44:16.040

Were you housed with another individual? I was housed with two other individuals. With two. Yeah, that's the way the dorms are. Uh-huh. Three in a room, at least at the time I was there. OK. And what about the meals? Three meals a day, uh, like a

00:44:16.040 - 00:44:27.800

cafeteria. OK. You know, meal tickets and what have you. Well, I was set for the whole first year, you know. And I've saved enough money so I could deal with the first year, but when I got there, I was still looking around for other means of

00:44:27.800 - 00:44:44.030

making money. And they had a few uh scholarship kinds of jobs you could get maybe $50 a week and what have you. Well, I hadn't proven myself to be one of the scholarship kids, you know, because, uh, during that time, most of the kids came there

00:44:44.239 - 00:44:57.340

knowing they were going to get something like that, all right, and they did. But anyway, uh, while at Tennessee State, I showed that I could cut it, you know, in the first year. And right before the first year was up, I got a job working up

00:44:57.340 - 00:45:11.340

there in agriculture building shoveling, uh, the bull stalls out, you know, shoving and done out and all, and I'd get up every morning about 6, go up there, shovel the stuff out, and, you know, clean the stalls. I'd roll on, you know, I think it was

00:45:11.340 - 00:45:26.379

about $50 a month, you know, and tuition was about $55 a quarter, you know, so that made it pretty nice, but the thing I had to do was get off campus, you see. Because living on campus, I was pushed to have to go eat every day,

00:45:26.540 - 00:45:39.419

3 times a day, because I'd already paid for it, and all I do is go through the line and they stamp it, OK? And I didn't always want to go eat. So I said, well, I get off campus, I'll rent me a room real cheap, which

00:45:39.419 - 00:45:51.459

I did, and I'll pay my 55 or whatever it may end up being a quarter, and I can really make it, and I can go to school cheap, you know. And, uh, I can come to the cafeteria and buy my, you know, some cold cuts, much

00:45:51.459 - 00:46:03.860

cheaper than down here at the store. And, uh, that's where, you know, and I rolled on. Not that I had to do that, but, uh, you know, that was a style of existence that I could live with, you know, and during the time that I went

00:46:03.860 - 00:46:22.219

to school, I felt that those were pretty good days because, uh, I felt that I was on top of everything, you know. Because, uh, I didn't have the financial worries because I had planned for this, OK, you know, and I knew that what happened to me,

00:46:22.260 - 00:46:36.870

I was gonna be able to control it, and I had proven to myself that I could cut it in an academic arena. And it was just a matter of my sitting down and studying because I had to do that and eventually, you know, I got so

00:46:36.870 - 00:46:51.149

that it was old hat. It became a disciplinary kind of a thing, you know, where you spend, you sit 4 hours in the library where you can sit there 4 hours doing nothing, but the point is you discipline yourself so that when you really have to

00:46:51.149 - 00:47:04.129

sit there you can do it, you know, tolerance, you know, and I knew that I ran up and down hills for Years, every, every day in the army we did exercise, you know, and maybe I could, you know, I could cut it, you know, and what

00:47:04.129 - 00:47:19.000

I had to do, the biggest problem I had was when I was getting out of the army. The thing that I didn't know was that in the army, you ran into more people that had college degrees. OK, and there's a reason for that because in the

00:47:19.000 - 00:47:35.659

army most of the people were draftees. In the Marines, Navy, and Air Force, they were volunteers. And I ran into a lot of guys with 2 or 3 years of college. It's rare to find people who hadn't been anywhere but high school. I ran into a

00:47:35.659 - 00:47:48.260

lot of folk with degrees, you know. And, you know, I kind of mingled with them, you know, because we were in the same city and, you know, and the thing that I noticed they were just, they were different. There was, there was some kind of polish

00:47:48.260 - 00:48:04.590

to them by virtue of them having gone to college, not finished, but just gone, and I knew that I had to go to college because I felt that just having two years meant that, you know, I could say yeah. OK. Because up to that point, I

00:48:04.590 - 00:48:17.830

had an uncle that finished high school and that was a big day, you know, you know, I wasn't around that day, but, you know, he finished high school, you know, Uncle Charlie finished high school, you know, and uh that was it, he was it. And then

00:48:17.830 - 00:48:31.649

when I came along, I finished, and I was the next guy. Finish high school in that family, you know, cause, you know, his sisters, you know, my, had dropped out, gotten pregnant, you know, usually, you know, good looking women end up getting pregnant, OK. They do,

00:48:31.729 - 00:48:46.350

you know, they drop out, you know, which is, which is really not good, you know. Yeah. Cause if you're mediocre, attractive, And you make it, and you finish college and when you get to college, then you start blooming and looking good, you know, because you got

00:48:46.350 - 00:48:59.600

your degrees and you know, you're going to be a teacher, so, you know, it gives you some degree of beauty there because they're looking more than just the skin, you know, they they. Well, and they started looking at her personality and then, you know, she turned

00:48:59.600 - 00:49:15.560

out to be OK. But up until that in high school, you're just looking at the bodies and the skin and face and all that. But anyway, anyway, uh, uh, anyway. In the service, I ran into these people and I knew that I had to go to

00:49:15.560 - 00:49:26.919

college. Plus, while in the army, I thought maybe I'd like to be an officer, and, uh, you know, I knew you had to have two years, you know. But the thing that I learned that was most important to me and has, you know, shown to be

00:49:26.919 - 00:49:42.399

so even now, and that is that you do what you're supposed to do when you're supposed to do it. Nobody can say anything bad. Without looking like a Nobody likes like the food, you know. So, you know, that stuck with me and I went on. And

00:49:42.399 - 00:49:54.639

the reason it stuck with me is because one day we were out in the field and this sergeant had told me to keep my hands out of my pocket, and you know, when I, he ended up catching me again and he made me put sand in

00:49:54.639 - 00:50:05.909

my pockets, OK? And I, you know, I used to keep my pants starched and I didn't want to break the starch in my pocket a little pressed, you know. And I put the sand in my pocket and I really hated that, but I knew that had

00:50:05.909 - 00:50:17.790

I not done so, I would've ended up getting an Article 15, and that means KP extra duty and all that junk. So, you know, I went on, and from then on, you know, I did what I was supposed to do when I was supposed to do

00:50:17.790 - 00:50:29.149

it, you know. OK. But, uh, anyway, let's see, where was I? I don't mean to break up with them anyway, when I was at Tennessee State, you know, I ended up showing that I cut it. I moved off campus, and, uh, I went to school year

00:50:29.149 - 00:50:41.030

round, you know, so that I could, I went to school in the summer. That way I could pick up extra hours, you know, and, uh, I could finish in three years, you know, which is what I didn't do. OK, let me ask you this. At what

00:50:41.030 - 00:50:58.209

point in your life at state. Um-hum. Did you want to enter the field of medicine? Well, I really didn't. I really didn't. I really didn't, but I knew that there were guys being accepted to medical school whose credentials were not as good as mine. When you

00:50:58.209 - 00:51:10.409

say you really didn't, you didn't, you weren't interested or you just didn't. Well, you know, going to medical school was something that happened upon me, OK? Let me say it this way. It goes way back. You know, I was at Fort Sam Houston when I was

00:51:10.409 - 00:51:24.649

in the army. And there was some social incident going on that, you know, I was saying to myself, if I were a lawyer, I would do this and that. And I decided to take a correspondence course from a, uh, some college, I don't know what it

00:51:24.649 - 00:51:37.830

was, and I was making pretty good grades. I was reading a history book and all and writing my stuff in and all, you know, and I decided back then that the things that I'd like to be in life were to be a pilot. To be a

00:51:37.830 - 00:51:53.290

musical conductor. Uh, to be a doctor, vaguely, but you know, or to be a lawyer, and those are the things, you know. Well, at that stage of the game, I couldn't see any becoming any of those because I wasn't in the Air Force. I was not

00:51:53.290 - 00:52:10.110

an officer, not that I have qualifications of becoming an officer, uh. I couldn't read music, you know, so, you know, and most people that become music start off in the 3rd grade, uh, at age 3, you know, and being a lawyer, you have to go to

00:52:10.110 - 00:52:23.929

somebody's college, OK? And let's see, and to become a doctor, I didn't even think about that because I was a medic at the time. And you know, I was perfectly satisfied with what I was doing. When I say perfectly, I, I don't mean that I was

00:52:23.929 - 00:52:37.520

not, uh, didn't have the desire to do better, but I was such that I could accept the setting that I found myself in, you know, not create a lot of emotional problems because I can't be the doctor now, OK? So, you know, I just said, well,

00:52:37.560 - 00:52:55.750

you know, I just try to do this the best that I can, you know. But anyway, I said that to reflect, you know, show that probably started years ago man. I know when uh people in high school. When was that? Uh, you were, uh, saying that

00:52:55.750 - 00:53:08.879

medicine just happened upon you. Oh, yeah, yeah, it just kind of happened upon me. And, uh, Well, you know, when, when, when kids in elementary school, they say, All right, what do you want to be, you know, I want to be a teacher, I want to

00:53:08.879 - 00:53:20.600

be this, and I want to be that, you know, and I hear guys, you know, light skinned, curly haired guys, you know, come from a good family, new shirt, new cotton ros, new shoes, and I say, well, I want to be a doctor, you know, and

00:53:20.600 - 00:53:31.560

they acted like they might want to be a doctor. Well, you know, you know, even then I couldn't be sure, but I, I always thought that maybe I'd want to be a doctor because that's what they like to hear, you know, during those days you could

00:53:31.560 - 00:53:47.350

either be a doctor, Uh, vaguely a lawyer, not, you know, being a lawyer, uh, nurse or teacher, OK, and principal was it, you know, and, uh, I'd say one of those things. I used to say, doctor, you know, doctors in charge, nurses are always women, you

00:53:47.350 - 00:54:01.939

know, that's what we thought, uh, plus I remember that in Chattanooga there was a hospital called Carver Hospital, and they used to have a little rock that used to sit out in the front like a little step every day though. Black doctors would come over in

00:54:01.939 - 00:54:17.479

the big Cadillacs and, And you know, sometimes they might say something to us, you know, because we'd be, They'd go on and cover and I guess treat somebody, you know, but, uh, anyway, you know, I, you know, I really had no strong desire to be a

00:54:17.479 - 00:54:29.600

doctor or anything. But anyway, when I got to Tennessee State, I discovered that I cut it and I knew my Harry was up the street, OK? I'd seen this, you know, you know, the school, and I, and I knew that Fisk was up there, you know.

00:54:29.610 - 00:54:48.860

OK. And, uh, Fisk is across the street from my hair. And uh, you know, I knew it was there and I had no desire to go to medical school, but anyway, my major advisor, Doctor Andrew Bunn. And Doctor Joseph Johnson. Were PhDs in biochemistry. And they

00:54:48.860 - 00:55:07.810

had graduated from the University of Minnesota. Uh, and I thought that I wanted to be a biochemist, and I did. Uh, they had, uh, encouraged me, you know, going to the university of Minnesota. Well, I thought I was a, Pretty sharp, you know, graduate when I

00:55:07.810 - 00:55:23.429

finished Tennessee State. And uh because I've made A's in one guy's class, Doctor Channing, who was notorious for flunking anybody, you know, but uh I managed to get A's out of his course because you know I could, you know, I, I knew how to deal with

00:55:23.429 - 00:55:43.929

his, you know, his tests and all, you know, and I remembered everything, you know, just to pass his test, you know, because I knew what kind of person he was. Well, anyway, uh, By the time to graduate, I decided I would apply for a fellowship. OK,

00:55:44.330 - 00:55:58.020

fellowship, you know, go do a master's or PhD. So I applied to Purdue. And uh Purdue, you know, I, then I had to go take a special examination, and Purdue said that, you know, they didn't think that I had scored well enough on that particular test

00:55:58.290 - 00:56:15.879

to, uh, be accepted in their PhD program. And you know, anytime you fail you get accepted, you don't feel too good. Now the last thing was to apply to University of Minnesota. And I applied and that was it. I just applied to be applied. And I

00:56:15.879 - 00:56:32.600

went on to take the MCAT test because several of my classmates had been accepted to Harry, and I figured I ought to be accepted too, you know, because my credentials are just as good as theirs. And uh well that was it. So I took the MCAT

00:56:32.600 - 00:56:45.129

test and got a letter from University of Minnesota telling me I've been accepted in the program, you know, master's and all this. So I went up there, you know, you know, you know, Minnesota has plenty of money, you know, and so I went to the University

00:56:45.129 - 00:57:01.830

of Minnesota. And during the time I was there, Charlie Sanders, who, you know, uh, tied in for, Chicago, not Chicago, the Detroit Lions was a, was a senior, you know, when I was at the University of Minnesota, and you know, we talk every once in a

00:57:01.830 - 00:57:19.570

while, we weren't close, but I just knew it. We eat the table sometimes. But, uh, anyway, uh, I went to the University of Minnesota and I spent a quarter there and while there, I decided. That I didn't belong there, you know, that I was not motivated

00:57:19.909 - 00:57:36.239

like the other people around me. And the courses that I was to take were no different than what I had, you know, and that was all hat to me. And I was not really motivated. You, you're saying that the curriculum was almost just the same. Well,

00:57:36.379 - 00:57:54.860

you know, the things that, well, I majored in biochemistry. Uh-huh. And. And, The information that they were giving out. was no different than what I'd already had, you know, so I wasn't, you know, too motivated, and plus, you know, I had, uh, Met my wife to

00:57:54.860 - 00:57:56.459

be, you know, Tennessee State and.