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The 20th, 1976. My name is Edward Scott. Of the Black Archives of Mid America and I'm interviewing Doctor GT Bryant. Uh, at his home at 2626 West Purcell. The time is Approximately 4:05 p.m. Uh, Doctor Bryant is present, presently. An educator, a major educator here in

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the Kansas City, Missouri area. Doctor Bryant is presently retired. Uh, From Penn Valley, president of the Penn Valley Community College. Uh, Dr. Bryant, when and where were you born? Well, I was born, On the edge of Saint Louis in a community that was called Wellston. In

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1905, my mother's name was Lyda Thompson Bryant. My father's name was Sylvester Bryant. He just returned from the army of the Philippine insurrection. And where he spent quite a bit of time in the Philippines. My mother was born near Bridgeton, Missouri. No. At the time I

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was born, they were living with. Her parents, when they moved out, I elected to stay with my grandparents. At 1523 Old Grove Avenue, Wellston. And uh, They, uh, my grandfather was a coachman. For a family named Boyce in Saint Louis, my grandmother was a cook. At

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that place and I sort of spent my earliest childhood on the boys' estate. And uh Then, uh Little boys uh lost his money, so we, uh. I moved out to a house that my grandmother owned, 1523 Oak Grove Avenue. We were the only blacks on that

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block, but there were a number of black people who lived there. A mile or so away and. And there were a number of blacks who worked at the brickyard that was relatively close. Now, we weren't wealthy. We were basically a poor family, but I always had

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enough to eat and good clothing to wear and. This kind of thing, and I never knew what want was, nor did any of my family. They were great on owning their own homes. I went to school. In a little place called Normandy to the Normandy Consolidated

00:03:07.179 - 00:03:28.059

School, which was a one-room school. It was about 1.5 mile from where we lived. Out further in the county. And we had a very good teacher, Mrs. Ella Holloman. And when I graduated from that school. I went to Sumner High School in Saint Louis, starting out

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by staying with an aunt who lived at 24. Uh, 442 24 Finney Avenue in Saint Louis. What, uh, excuse me. What, uh, what were your grandparents' names? Oh, my grandparents were named, uh. Mr. and Mrs. Henry P. Thompson. Grandmother's name was Annie Patsy Thompson. She was

00:03:54.699 - 00:04:13.139

quite a woman too, one of these fine independent women who believed in owning her own home and paying all of her debts. Uh, buying for cash and, uh, she had many of these values. She used to often tell me when I was growing up, there's nothing

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worse than a, a liar but a thief. And, uh, I mean she drilled a whole lot of these principles in me. When I was growing up kid, I had the usual normal life, played baseball. And, uh, Went to Sunday school and became superintendent of the Sunday

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school, which was a Baptist church, by the way, Ebenezer Baptist Church. In summer high school. I made good grades and was considered for the Alpha scholarship and my uh. Senior year, but it went to a young man named Broussard who perhaps had a little higher average

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than I did and uh both of us went to the University of Chicago uh directly from high school. I entered the University of Chicago in 1922 and graduated in 1926. Joined the Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity while I was there. I was president of the University of

00:05:16.299 - 00:05:41.700

Chicago Club, which is made up of the 125 Negro students who were on the campus. I was also Pollmark of my fraternity. I owned a chapter of Kappa. I majored in history, minored in education. Also had a minor in English, a minor in political science. So

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that was that up until I graduated and I had a job given to me by the placement service up there in North Carolina. But in August they wrote to me that the job hadn't matured and I had one month to find a job and I went

00:06:02.269 - 00:06:22.440

to a little Baptist. Uh, convocation or Baptist conference out in Kinlock and the man who was speaking was president of Western Baptist College. So after he finished, I asked him if he had a job, and he told me he thought he did. He wanted to know

00:06:22.440 - 00:06:43.609

if I could teach, uh, Negro history, and I told him yes. He wanted to know if I could teach Spanish. I could teach English. All of which I answered yes, so I got a job for the munificent sum of $70 a month, room and board, and

00:06:43.609 - 00:07:06.109

they didn't always pay the $70 a month. And it was at Western Baptist College, which was located at. 2119 Woodland, I believe. It was in an old mansion, the Ridge mansion in the dormitory where I stayed and the boys stayed was the old stable on the

00:07:06.109 - 00:07:33.089

mansion grounds. We had a very good time actually. I enjoyed my experience that year. My best friend was Clarence Bacoat, the son of Reverend Samuel Bacote, who was pastor of one of the largest churches here, Second Baptist. Uh, Baco now. Head of the department of history

00:07:33.089 - 00:07:50.170

at Atlanta University or at least he was for a number of years. He may be retired now because we're both the same age. And that's the way I happened to come to Kansas City. It was primarily an accident. I didn't plan to come here. I, uh,

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Mr. Richardson went to Kansas vocational school in Topeka. Uh, in 1927, the year after I came. I went to Prairie View that summer and taught English. And then I came back and went to work for Mr. Richardson at Kansas Vocational School. There I met my wife

00:08:10.529 - 00:08:35.379

and married her, who was the daughter of Clement Richardson. OK. And, uh, Since, uh, he couldn't employ family, I had to find a job again. This time, Reverend Baco brought me back to Kansas City as president of Western Baptist College. And, uh, I Stayed there. For

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about 4 months from August to the latter part of December. When I went to work in the Kansas City Public schools, it was the same problem. They couldn't pay, they didn't get enough money so they could pay regular salaries and I had a wife and. In

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November and maybe to support so I went on into the public schools and uh started teaching English at Lincoln High School under. A very fine man is principal HO Cook. On the, on the Western Western was one of the, uh, original, uh, colleges here uh in

00:09:19.570 - 00:09:40.349

this area. Yes, it was an old Negro college. It really wasn't much of a college. It was more of a high school, but it did have some ministers who were taking, um, courses in theology, and I think that's what gave it its title of college, but

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they had students all the way from the Elementary grades through high school and I think the largest enrollment they ever had was about 165 students, but the morale, the esprit de corps was great. I actually enjoyed working with those people. Going into the public schools was

00:10:04.409 - 00:10:28.869

an entirely different experience. These students. Were different. Some were delightful and some were bright, and then there were others who were dull and cantankerous as they could be. And, um, This didn't make teaching all a pleasure like it had been at Kansas Vocational School and Western

00:10:28.869 - 00:10:58.849

Baptist College. Uh, my first year there I was elected president of the Secondary Teacher Study Club. And at the same year I went into the cooperative, uh. Teachers uh association, which uh was the Clearing house for all of the teachers in Kansas City. Uh, I held

00:10:58.849 - 00:11:16.429

some kind of office in it I forget just what I, I believe. But, uh, Bit by bit I didn't, didn't become head of the department of history and I should have said I switched from history, from English to history when we moved in the new building.

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On the site of Old Western Baptist College, it's where Lincoln High School is now 2121 Woodland on the hill. And uh, I became head of the history department about 1938, I believe, either 1936 or 1938. Um, 1941 December. The dean of Lincoln Junior College died. His

00:11:50.489 - 00:12:13.159

name was Matthew Carroll. And Mr. Cook named me the Dean of Lincoln Junior College, which was also in the high school building. From then on, I had various educational experiences, most of them quite interesting. And one thing I did that uh. Not all the teachers did.

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Each summer I would do some work other than work with. Local youngsters around here I would go to some other school or. Or take some workshop or something of that sort. Um-hum. And then, um, I started working on my master's degree about 1932. At the University

00:12:39.849 - 00:13:05.750

of Kansas. And I got that degree in 1938 just attending there uh in summertime. Mhm Hm Uh, What, what, uh, was the kind of, of, of, of What is the difference? In the way that the children were educated at that time? What, what was the kind

00:13:05.750 - 00:13:29.070

of education, there was no difference except that. We were rather thorough. The faculty was a particularly good faculty. In fact, they weren't all of the black high schools in those days. They were recruited from graduates of the Big 10 schools. Uh, the big 8 schools. Um,

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some came from Harvard and uh. I don't remember any up here from Yale. But there were a number from those eastern schools like Brown and uh. Some of the, um, Finishing schools like Mount Hermon. And Bowdoin College and so on. So they came from good schools.

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uh, Mr. Jeffries, who taught math, for example, was a graduate of Tufts College. In Boston. And uh. This was to the youngsters' advantage. Uh, we had students leaving Lincoln in those days who were able to make Phi Beta Kappa and some of the top universities in

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the country. Hm Uh, You, you do know Mr. Scott that. There are 2 types of students, the youngsters who really are in school to learn. And these got the advantage of a good sound high school education. And then we had a number. Who didn't want to

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learn. They were just there to clown around and play and waste their time. Consequently, they got no more than the youngsters today. But the principal difference as I see it is that. In those days we had more students who wanted to learn and less who wanted

00:15:01.900 - 00:15:24.309

to clown around and this made things a whole lot different. Also we weren't always alibiing for youngsters. They were there to get an education and this is what we tried to give them. What do you think was the reason for There there being more who desire

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to learn and at that at that phase in. Well, I think it follows the pattern of our race. Our races historical background, the time we were freed from slavery, almost all Negroes wanted to get a good education. Because they looked upon an education as something to

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relieve them from freedom and poverty. It was a goal toward which they all worked and even those who weren't educated wanted to see that their children were educated and there was nothing they would spare. Uh, their child to see that he was educated and if he.

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Even attempted to come up with a whole lot of foolishness, the parent would punish him and, uh, as we became more educated. Uh, this Spirit. Or this feeling. Of wanting to be educated was gradually lost and we had many youngsters who didn't care and their parents

00:16:30.359 - 00:16:49.419

didn't care too much whether they got an education or not and I think that's a difficulty we're in today. He sort of, um, Just took advantage of the, uh, of the, Freedom and the fact that education was more available. Yes, I think so. Made them more

00:16:49.419 - 00:17:10.060

relaxed. Uh, they, they, Has to be some keys that will be necessary for, I mean, that will, that will help. Uh, to bring back, uh, that kind of, of, of zeal to a foreign education because. Well, I don't know if we'll ever recover or if we'll

00:17:10.060 - 00:17:32.400

ever go back. As you know, there is a tendency not to go back. We always go forward. Can't look back, you know, often we're going downhill when we go forward rather than uphill, which is tragic. But, uh, The only I hope I can sleep for our

00:17:32.400 - 00:17:57.349

people, is it? They improve their economic situation. There they need the cooperation of the majority in the United States because we lack jobs. There are too many of us unemployed and. Uh, the morale of the family has gradually been. Going down, being undercut. Until these vital

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things are restored, I don't see much hope for improvement in this direction, although more. Numerically. More black youngsters are being educated today than there were at that time. Just a lot more people. Yes, that's it. Yeah, it's the. End of the Civil War there were about

00:18:23.479 - 00:18:46.079

4 million blacks in the United States. Today there are 25 to 26 million, so you can see how we've increased in numbers. Um, I should tell you that. I think the big break came at uh Lincoln when I got this Fulbright grant to teach in Thailand.

00:18:47.030 - 00:19:05.510

In Bangkok, Thailand, and my wife and I were over there a year. I taught at the College of Education, which is called Brianna. It was one of the most. Interesting. One of the happiest years of my life. And uh, can you imagine living in a place

00:19:05.510 - 00:19:28.380

for an entire year. With nothing unpleasant coming up, everything a pleasure. I can't imagine. It was really, really nice. We had enough money to take care of us. At a very comfortable home. The children, the youngsters were very pleasant to work with. Uh, we got to

00:19:28.380 - 00:19:48.390

see quite a bit of the countryside. We had a delightful. A niece of the landlady who practically adopted us and became our daughter and She took us many places. We had an automobile and we got around to the feast and the. The fiestas and the religious

00:19:48.390 - 00:20:06.160

ceremonies. This sort of thing, so there was something new coming up all the time. I think we got more of a benefit from the experience in Thailand than the students that I taught, although I think both of us benefited a great deal from it when I

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came back. In 1955. The famous Supreme Court. The decision in Brown versus Topeka had been made. And they were attempting to integrate the schools here. And so they sent me as a vice principal to Manuel High School. I forgot to tell you I was vice principal

00:20:30.160 - 00:20:57.670

of Lincoln in addition to being dean of the junior college. And The first year at manual wasn't too bad. We had. Whites, we have. Mostly Italians and we had Mexican Americans at that time they didn't call themselves Chicanos. And we had blacks. And by the 2nd

00:20:57.670 - 00:21:20.239

year I was there, they were. Just about the same proportion of numbers, about 1/3 of each. But by the 3rd year I was there, there were far more blacks than any of the other two groups. Mexican students started going out for Westport. And, uh, I don't

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know what happened to the whites. They started moving out of the district, so Manuel gradually became a black school. At that time, they transferred me to Central because it was having its problems. I'm here again. When I first went there, there were relatively few blacks. And

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it was a pretty nice place to teach. They had a very good faculty at Central. By the time I got ready to leave Central. Uh, there were, Far more blacks than any other group out there. Then I left Central and went into the junior college of

00:22:00.810 - 00:22:26.329

Kansas City, Missouri. At Thirty-ninth and McGan where I was assistant dean. I, uh, that was, that was, uh, during, during the time that uh. There weren't very many blacks. That I could see because I, I was, uh, that was around 1960, 1960 the fall of 1960.

00:22:28.089 - 00:22:51.800

I was out of junior college in 1962 and I remember there were. There were barely 100 blacks out there at that time, less than the number who attended. Lincoln Junior College. But gradually the blacks were increasing in enrollment up until about 1963. In 1963, there were

00:22:51.800 - 00:23:16.489

so few blacks who graduated. That I became very much concerned and started asking questions. And after 1963, the black student population started building up. At the present time, Penn Valley has about 8000 students, and one third of those students are black. In fact, more than one

00:23:16.489 - 00:23:43.760

third of the students are black. So, uh, people of Kansas City are beginning to appreciate the community colleges. We changed from junior college to community college in about 1964. And, uh, There are a number of blacks attending. What, uh, what did, uh, was determined that was

00:23:43.760 - 00:24:06.160

the problem with, uh, concerning, uh, the failure of of uh I think motivation and the fact that it was difficult to pass. Those old teachers at Kansas City Junior College prided themselves on being tough. And they gave you no help. If you could pass the work,

00:24:06.290 - 00:24:30.189

good. If you couldn't pass it, you just failed and Sometimes we would have 1800 freshmen enter. And the next year only 200 people graduate out of the 1800 who have entered, so you can see there was a big attrition, great loss of this included blacks and

00:24:30.189 - 00:24:56.079

whites. And the reputation was that the junior college is tougher than UMKC, and they took pride in saying if you can pass junior college you can pass anywhere in the United States. That's, I think it was, was, was rated quite high. At least that's the reputation

00:24:56.079 - 00:25:16.619

it had in the city. Many people would say it's the best junior college in the United States, but actually that was mostly, uh, people talking. I don't think there was ever any official rating of this sort. It was just a pride that they had and. Oh

00:25:17.369 - 00:25:40.500

Kansas City Junior College that had been in existence since 1915. Uh, you've probably seen, uh, a lot of the, uh, changes that have been made in education. And the type of education that has been forwarded to the students the growth, yes, there haven't been too many

00:25:40.500 - 00:26:05.280

changes except in the quality of education that has been going downhill, I think. Theoretically, it should have been improving, but as we added, uh, Uh, a whole lot of extra frills to the curriculum, uh, we didn't add substance and so consequently, uh, that today's student, I

00:26:05.280 - 00:26:28.520

don't think is as strong as the students were 20 or 30 years ago. It's just my personal opinion. Uh, by way of evidence, there's scoring on the. College entrance examinations have been going down, so there is some scientific evidence for the assertion that I made. But,

00:26:29.109 - 00:26:53.739

uh, We're hopeful, uh, the, the biggest change that came in the junior college situation was in 1964 when we started to introduce some vocational technical subjects. With the establishment of Metropolitan Junior College, which is just another name for the Kansas City Junior College. Except that we

00:26:53.739 - 00:27:21.329

were independent from the Kansas City school system by this time. Um. We hadn't had any uh vocational tech work and. Now there are over 39 courses in vocational tech or terminal education courses, which is new for Kansas City. Had been going on in California and other

00:27:21.329 - 00:27:57.849

places for years before this move came to Kansas City. Was this move uh uh geared to, to really help the deprived individual. And through counselors and testing and. Other ways we determine. In a large measure, what type of training would benefit the student, of course we

00:27:57.849 - 00:28:16.550

had his cooperation too. He didn't want to take this kind of training well then we let him go and take the type he thought he wanted because we certainly haven't hoped that anywhere along the line to hold students back. Let them go ahead and work out

00:28:16.550 - 00:28:41.839

their potential. Mhm Uh, I know that there's, there's probably, uh, some more science there that, uh, in dealing with. the growth of education. And things that would have been changes that have been necessary in order to cope. With the uh problems in education. But uh. Maybe

00:28:42.199 - 00:29:11.619

uh maybe later on. It Uh, well, I don't know that I can. Enlighten you on that aspect of education except to say what I've already said. Um 11 of the things that may interest you is that. I have always considered that. A person's horizon should be

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broad, so I haven't confined myself merely to the classroom. I've always become involved in what the community is doing, and, uh, one of the things I'm proud of is that I was a charter member of Fellowship House. Now when I came here, this city used to

00:29:29.739 - 00:29:52.839

brag about its prejudice. And statements like this is a western city with a southern exposure and uh many of the white families were bragging about their rebel backgrounds or their Confederate backgrounds and things of that sort. There was very little contact between the black community and

00:29:52.839 - 00:30:15.270

the white community when I came to Kansas City. So in 1900 and. In 1943 we. Set up an organization called uh the Committee on the Practice of Democracy and the person who took the lead in calling us together was Virginia Oldham, an English teacher. At Central

00:30:15.270 - 00:30:41.339

High School, a white woman and a Quaker, and from this committee, which we nicknamed COpod. We formed Fellowship House which was modeled after an organization in Philadelphia which is sponsored by the Quakers Fellowship of Reconciliation. And this, the whole, the sole purpose of this organization. The

00:30:41.339 - 00:31:06.469

whole purpose of the organization was to break down racial barriers. And I think we did a pretty good job. We did some picketing. We did some going together in mixed groups to the Philharmonic and to restaurants downtown and to theaters downtown and this sort of thing,

00:31:07.150 - 00:31:25.430

uh, sometimes we ran into a little difficulty we never did get in, uh, have any trouble with the police because we didn't stop the fight or anything like that. If people wanted to make an issue of it, we simply walked quietly away and then tried the

00:31:25.430 - 00:31:47.760

next week, but over a period of 2 or 3 years we were able to break down, uh, segregation and municipal auditorium. This is one of our first successes. In the meantime. After we started, there were other groups that started too, and they worked on the department

00:31:47.760 - 00:32:09.579

stores downtown and some other things. Julia Hill played a part in that movement. Um, I was very proud of that because Kansas City is a much better place now than it was when I came here. Um, Naturally, I was interested in the fraternity and became hallmark

00:32:09.579 - 00:32:32.719

of the chapter here. Uh, ultimately, I became a grand. Historian in Kappa Alpha Psi, which is one of the grand officers we have had a grandpollmark from Kansas City, Carl Roman Johnson, and then I'm the other grand, uh, officer, uh, from Kansas City. Um, I also

00:32:32.719 - 00:32:54.729

became interested in the YMCA. Became vice president of the board, headed up the drive for memberships down there in 1955 and Believe it or not, but at one time I was present on the trustee board at Second Baptist Church, um. In 1958, I became a member

00:32:54.729 - 00:33:12.579

of the Queen of the World Hospital Board and then uh they talked me into going over to General Hospital and Medical Center and becoming secretary of the board over there. Uh, so you see, uh, in addition to those, there were other things too, you see, I've

00:33:12.579 - 00:33:31.930

been very much involved in, in, uh. The work of the community, uh, I've been a member of the Bull Brummel Club, for example, which is a social club, and then later on I became a member of the Urban League board in the city and the I

00:33:31.930 - 00:33:55.829

told you about the secondary teacher Study Club and the cooperative council. But uh I also became a member and at one time uh. President of the Teachers Credit Union, uh, I served on that committee a long time, worked with that organization a long time. Then in

00:33:55.829 - 00:34:17.399

1960, I became interested in mental health. And ultimately became president of that organization. I was the first Negro president. Of uh mental health organization of Greater Kansas City and maybe the last one I don't know if they've ever had another one or not but they did

00:34:17.399 - 00:34:42.898

give me a plaque uh for the Recognition of my services to that organization. I worked on the people to people organization. He's formed by Dwight Eisenhower. And um Joyce Hall out here. Had the approval of Harry Truman. I forgot to tell you one time I met

00:34:42.999 - 00:35:07.959

Mr. Truman. I had my picture taken with him, um, most recently I was placed on the Harry Truman Institute of National and International Affairs and on the board of the Harry Truman Institute. Out there and I'm on the statue committee too. In 1965 I was appointed

00:35:07.959 - 00:35:30.120

by the governor of the state to be a police commissioner in Kansas City, Missouri. Most gruesome, I worked on the Jackson County Charter commission. That set up the uh new form of government that we have and the. Um, comedy. So as I said before, there have

00:35:30.120 - 00:35:49.159

been a whole group of organizations that I work with in addition to my work in education because I don't think you can be a well rounded person if you stick to a very narrow. Path you have to broaden out. And conceive of life as a much

00:35:49.159 - 00:36:12.199

broader horizon. Than merely going to school in the morning and coming back at night. Right. Life is really more than that. Yes, sir. Uh, did you, uh. Being a part of uh so many different Uh, I mean, how were you able to structure your time to

00:36:14.449 - 00:36:33.030

Well, I don't know because I spent quite a bit of time after school and never even thought about taking a penny's, uh, a penny's pay or even asking for any compensation for this volunteer service and then. There was also a time I went around to my

00:36:33.030 - 00:36:51.689

students' homes. But taking all of this into consideration that you're really doing your job and you're doing, you're above the call of duty, you're putting in extra time, there was still plenty of time in the evenings. Plenty of time on Saturdays and other times to do

00:36:51.689 - 00:37:15.399

that. One other thing I forgot to tell you about was. Going out in the summers and doing different things, and these ranged all the way from waiting table on the Union Pacific. Diners. Through teaching in places like. Atlanta, you Lincoln University. I taught there for 3

00:37:15.399 - 00:37:42.520

or 4 summers, um. Taking a year's leave of absence and going to Florida and uh teaching at Florida A&M University, which is a very pleasant experience, taking a year off. Working on my doctor's degree at Washington University in Saint Louis. Ultimately getting the degree in 1963.

00:37:43.989 - 00:38:13.530

And, uh, Traveling in the summer time we. Took freighter trips. We took one freighter trip to Hawaii. Then the next summer, we took a freighter trip to the Caribbean visiting uh. Ponce and Mayadlath and San Juan and Santo Domingo and Port au Prince. Then some summers

00:38:13.530 - 00:38:31.949

we would just go around the United States to different places and travel over so. We're getting around all the time. Right. Um-hum. I see that. Uh see, that's the way I use my summers. Did your, uh, How many children do you have? We have 2 children.

00:38:32.350 - 00:38:54.399

One just left here Sunday. Uh, both are girls. Betty Ann Marino is her married name is an entertainer in Los Angeles. She's been out there for the last 20 years. And she's seldom been without work. She plays the piano and sings. At the present time, she's

00:38:54.399 - 00:39:21.679

at the Hyatt House in Los Angeles. And Barbara Jane, whose married name is Wallace. Is, uh, living in Los Angeles, only a few blocks from where Betty lives. And she's a registered nurse. And she has been, uh, Supervisor, super. A supervisor to convalescent homes for the

00:39:21.679 - 00:39:44.020

last few years. And each one has one child. Betty has a boy named Adam. Teresa has a girl who's 16 years old now named uh. I mean, Barbara is a girl named Patrice. Uh, now you say, uh, when you talk about your travels, you, you say

00:39:44.020 - 00:40:00.610

we did you, did your family, did you always my wife, my wife went with me. The children stayed here. We went to Thailand. For a year, they were old enough to look after this house while they were gone. In fact, they made it possible for us

00:40:00.610 - 00:40:18.669

to go. To be able to move back here. Uh, I know your wife, uh, really enjoyed being able to do all those things. Oh yeah, right along with you. I love the Caribbean food and that sort of thing. I love the freight ship. Um. But the

00:40:18.669 - 00:40:41.850

year in Thailand was a very good year. That's what your husband was saying. I talked to, um, I forgot to tell you that I taught at Washington University in Saint Louis. The title was visiting lecturer. Um, assistant. The assistant was. The title given to most graduate

00:40:41.850 - 00:41:03.409

students who are permitted to teach and they pay you a salary for your teaching. And visiting lecture was something that was a little spatial. Um, And, and again, uh, I was paid at an even higher rate for that than I was as an assistant, but I

00:41:03.409 - 00:41:25.250

really enjoyed teaching at Washington University. Most of the students were Jewish. And they were bright, really bright as they could. Hm. Uh, and your, your, uh. I think you We've been to Europe also made some trips to Europe. No, we, when we returned from Thailand, we

00:41:25.250 - 00:41:52.100

came across Europe. We landed at Rome and then we took trains to. Florence, Italy and. Venice and to Milan and to Zurich, Switzerland and on up to Paris, France. Then across the Channel to London and we spent uh. 3 to 4 days in most of the

00:41:52.100 - 00:42:20.010

places that I named. Hm. Uh, were there any experience in education there, we were just tourists enjoying it. Would you, Say even seek out, did you seek out some of the educational institutions? No, we passed the Sorbonne. We were in Paris. I was surprised that it

00:42:20.010 - 00:42:34.929

was just one building. I've heard about it all my life. It's a part of the University of Paris over on the left bank, and there are a whole lot of other buildings that are part of the university, but the Sorbonne itself is about a 3 or

00:42:34.929 - 00:42:55.229

4 story building, gray limestone. And uh you would think with all of the fame that it has it would be spread out over a mile square but it isn't it is very larger than Lincoln High School. It's sort of like, uh, they say Kansas City has

00:42:55.229 - 00:43:22.610

more parks than Paris. Um-hum. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, let's see. Uh, how long have you and your wife been married? 4747 years. That's, So the majority, both of your teams. Well, uh, you tell him about your teaching experience. I was a substitute teacher for a while, but

00:43:22.610 - 00:43:45.840

my work was, uh, basically the YWCA and then with the Institute of Community Studies when I retired. I was the, uh, survey director of community studies. You know about these things? I, I, I'd like to know a little bit more. This isn't my day, um, well,

00:43:45.919 - 00:44:12.250

I mean, actually with social research. Um, They had government grants and then we would set up the questionnaire to get the data that uh is required to analyze it. Mm What of, um, what of your childhood? How'd you happen to meet born at Tuskegee, Alabama on

00:44:12.250 - 00:44:33.510

practically on a campus. My father was there and he came to reserve when I was 8 years old. One of 450. And my father was President Donald Lincoln back in 1918 to 1992. Lincoln University. There's a building on the campus. It's named for him. It was

00:44:34.199 - 00:45:00.050

dedicated back in the 50s. Um-hum. And, um. What was your father's name? Clement Richard. And, um, Then That being a political type job, he lost out there and he came here to Western, the same Western college where. Yeah. Where we met. Hmm. Uh, then my father

00:45:00.050 - 00:45:25.520

went to Kansas vocational school as children and. Without knowing that probably had gone up there, uh, Gerard just applied up there for a job. And, uh, got it. Um-hum. And I knew you'd gone up there. Um, yeah, I just, Well, anyway. And that's, uh, that's where

00:45:25.520 - 00:45:43.689

we met and we married. I mean we met here when I came home from I went to in Topeka. That was my school. I think we, when we first met I came home on a weekend. That was, that was the beginning of it. And in my

00:45:43.899 - 00:46:19.139

junior year, You know. Didn't tell anybody. And then, uh, The, uh, Nothing next and Papa couldn't hire anybody who was related to him that he can. So, the opening was. Here in Kansas City at, at Western again. The pain back here is. That's, uh, I think

00:46:19.139 - 00:46:46.909

that's, it's always interesting. When we have uh such a cadence of the family structure at this point. It's always interesting. OK. I'm able to talk to someone who has been together. So Maybe they have some keys or something. We, we planned and built this house in

00:46:46.909 - 00:47:12.280

1950, we moved into it in 1951. And we've been very pleased with it ever since. Unfortunately the children were over 16 at the time we moved into the house. Up until that time we lived in apartments for the most part. Hm Uh, Kansas City's been good

00:47:12.280 - 00:47:43.340

to me. I can't complain. We live very comfortably. Give me a number of honors and plaques. Certificates and whatnot. So, uh, I, I can't complain at all. I think it's, it's given me very good recognition. And it's been rather pleasant living here. Been home for so

00:47:43.340 - 00:48:14.229

long Mhm. Uh, OK, did you, uh, What about, uh, Women's liberation. I'm for it. I say. No, I'm for it. What about you? I haven't gotten into it as a movement at all, and I'm for it, but I think that, um, I mean you have to

00:48:14.229 - 00:48:30.719

earn it individually earn the right to do whatever it is you're doing. I think that women should be allowed to do what they're capable of doing. And this is, uh, this is basically it. I mean, as a person, if you're capable of doing it, then the

00:48:30.719 - 00:48:52.590

job should be available to you too. I also believe a woman should have the right to determine what to do with her own body. OK. And, uh. On the abortion. On the abortion issue, I, Just can't see these fanatics who get all worked up about something

00:48:52.590 - 00:49:13.129

like that, but I think, uh, with them religion is a primary. Motivation for their fanaticism against it. Um-hum. But, uh, I think we'd be moving toward a more liberal age when we get to the point where a woman can determine what she wants to do. Do

00:49:13.129 - 00:49:33.929

you have any other issues you want to mention? Uh, that's, uh, that's quite a simple thing. It is. I'm not at all satisfied with the president, present president. I think he's making a big mistake in giving business a free hand in the industry, and I mean

00:49:33.929 - 00:49:57.449

big business, the ones who have the millions and billions of dollars. Because history will show that every time they've been given a free hand, they've abused. Um-hum. They need controls and the periods in history they've gone to the government asking for controls. This whole theory. The

00:49:57.449 - 00:50:16.469

trickle down theory it's called that if business prospers all the rest of the country will prosper never worked out that way. So that, uh, I'm not at all satisfied with the faces that are in Washington DC and I would like to see some new and fresh

00:50:16.469 - 00:50:38.250

faces appear. I think it would mean a lot more for the country, this belligerence. Of wanting to build up our arms. Wanting to Played down detente. I don't think it's good at all. We need more detente. We should live in a world and try to get

00:50:38.250 - 00:50:57.290

along with people and understand that we have to live in a world with people not all of whom think like we think, not all of whom have the same types of government that we think we approve of and uh. The fact that we'll back any kind

00:50:57.290 - 00:51:18.959

of government, so it isn't communists. Seems to me rather stupid. I don't care whether it's a dictatorial form or a fascist form of government. We back it. There's no other reason than it isn't communist. So I, I hope to live long enough to see our country

00:51:18.959 - 00:51:40.780

get out of that syndrome. And we have been in that syndrome ever since Nixon became president. Ford's carrying out his. I did just thinking. fell on him just like it was, right, and he, and he carried it, as Julian Bond says, Ford is an honest Nixon.

00:51:44.590 - 00:52:13.699

I think Mr. Jackson was uh. He's a democratic republic. That's a good description though, yeah. He would, he thinks just like they think. Any difference we keep on riding sabers. Threatening war. Well, that's rather hard to do right off the top of my head, it would

00:52:13.699 - 00:52:37.389

be Jimmy Carter, but. I don't know. Jimmy Carter is a fresh face, and he has different ideas. Many of his ideas I agree with. Furthermore, Mr. Carter is very highly spoken of by the black people of Georgia that I've talked with. Um, there was, uh, an

00:52:37.389 - 00:52:55.129

attempt to play up a statement that he made on ethnic purity. Well, they were looking for something to trip him up with, and it took them all by surprise that Jimmy Carter from Georgia could win over the black people. This, this really swept the. The, the

00:52:55.129 - 00:53:15.620

so-called liberals, uh, off their feet, they just didn't expect this and so consequently they sat around waiting for him to do something so they could trip him up and, and, uh, try to do something to dissipate his support among black people and I was rather amused

00:53:15.620 - 00:53:35.310

than than anything else about uh taking the statement on ethnic purity. And using it to whip him over the head with because he wasn't saying anything more than they had said in different times in different ways. But he had some good statements from last Sunday. OK

00:53:38.209 - 00:54:00.260

So funny. I mean making a definite stand rather than a general statement. Number. No, Mr. Scott, I think that about wraps it up. Let me ask you another question on religion. What do you, um, you know, what is your opinion of the role of religion? Well,

00:54:01.679 - 00:54:26.189

uh. I'm not against religion. Who would be? But I think many people. Put a whole lot more emphasis on religion and to the neglect of ethics. And to me, doing right is very important. And I only believe that religion is effective as it is practiced as

00:54:26.189 - 00:54:54.600

it's. Uh Hasn't become so. An action. And uh this has been mostly my creed. I'm a liberal, that's what you're driving at. And certainly not a fundamentalist. You could probably tell that from my attitude on abortion and while I support the church and even pay my

00:54:54.600 - 00:55:16.790

dues. Um, it's very seldom I'm carried away by emotional, the emotionalism of the church. And consequently I don't go to church too often, but I have nothing against the church or nothing against the people who go. I think if they feel a need for this type

00:55:16.790 - 00:55:39.600

of thing it's very good and um certainly I came from a family that was deeply religious. I think my wife did too. Her father was often referred to as Reverend Richardson, although he never was. He was just president of a Baptist school. But, um, I think

00:55:39.600 - 00:55:55.760

it's very good for people who feel that they need this sort of thing, but the thing that surprises me is that so many, both black and white, particularly white people who profess to be so high on religion, are some of the most prejudiced people we have

00:55:55.760 - 00:56:12.780

in the United States. And they, they see no connection between living right and, and going to church on Sunday and being the deacon and singing the songs and getting on their knees and praying and all this, and they come right out and won't hire any blacks

00:56:12.780 - 00:56:35.800

in their plant. And this doesn't make any sense at all. If you're going to follow Christ, you should follow Christ. And you don't find anywhere in the teachings of Christ that condone. The awful things that have been done in the name of Christianity. That's good. They

00:56:35.800 - 00:57:07.840

approved of slavery. Only a few of the denominations lifted a strong voice against slavery. Prior to 1840. And, um, You know, things like the Inquisition. Crusades Intolerance and the burning of witches and all of that, all of this was done. Name of Christianity, which to me

00:57:07.840 - 00:57:32.729

is a travesty. Unfortunate What if, um, I have to ask you, um. What is, what is your opinion of the Nation of Islam? Well, I told you I was a liberal. And uh As far as I'm concerned, they're all right. I think the Honorable Elijah Muhammad

00:57:32.729 - 00:57:54.929

was a very good man fundamentally. I don't think his son caught all that he could have from his father. But I think he was a good man. He had the right ideas, particularly his economic ideas and his ideas on morals. I think they're very good. So

00:57:54.929 - 00:58:18.600

while I would not become a black Muslim myself. I certainly have no objections or no complaints. I would say as far as I'm concerned, they're all right. I think I just go to the Jehovah's Witnesses who come by and ring the doorbell on Sunday morning and

00:58:19.590 - 00:58:34.600

want me to buy a tractor theirs and I give them the dime just to keep from talking to them, you know. But oddly enough they're one of the sects that I admire because the Bible said go ye into the highways and byways and preach the gospel

00:58:35.270 - 00:58:49.949

and they really get out there on that street and walk up and down and sometimes when the weather's 9 above 0 they're out and you have to admire this people's right because they have a right to follow through with what they're supposed to and I tell

00:58:49.949 - 00:59:16.469

you another thing they. They've been very liberal on this race question, which is more than we can say about the Mormons. Right. OK Yeah, they've got built in prejudice in their religion because Negro can't enter the priesthood. If you can't enter the priesthood, you have a

00:59:16.469 - 00:59:40.800

hard time getting in the head and got it fixed and really these are the ideas of Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith was a poor white man. Almost every white of that era. Believe that there was something innately. evil about black people. If they weren't, yeah, they weren't

00:59:40.800 - 01:00:01.399

as good as white people, so Joseph Smith was simply carrying out the ideas of his age and generation. Many of those ideas are carried over to the present day. Well thank you very much Doctor Brown. Oh, you're welcome. I enjoyed chatting with you. I enjoyed it

01:00:01.399 - 01:00:01.800

very much.