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Mr. Ella Pruitt. I'm interviewing Mr. Elvis Edward Gibson at his home. His home is located 3038 Mongol in Kansas City, Missouri. This is February 20th, 1976. The time is 6:46. We'll begin the interview by focusing primarily on Mr. Gibson's early childhood. Mr. Gibson, could you tell

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me first of all, where you were born, when, and a little background on your parents, if you possibly know. I was born in. Calvert, Texas, C A L V E R T. In 1937, And my early childhood. Recollections are, Comes to me clearly and, The city

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that my mother moved to, they come up. And uh we moved to uh San Antonio, Texas. And my early, my very early thoughts, you know, run memory run back to that particular time I guess I was aged, the age of 44 or 5 years. Uh, my

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mother, uh. Was also born in Calgar, Texas. And, um, She lived there all her life until she married my father. That marriage resulted in a divorce, and at that time, we, she, Had, uh, brought me to San Antonio. And then Lived there until 1946 or 947.

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I'm not too sure what date that is. OK, Mr. Mr. Gibson, I remember from reading an autobiography of your life, at that time, your immediate family consisted of you, your mother and your grandmother, right? Right. So you have no brothers or sisters? No brothers or sisters.

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OK, Mr. Gibson, now, uh, Do you have any information? Can you tell me anything at all about your father, where he was from? My father's name is Louis Gibson, and he still lives in Calgary, Texas. He was born also in California. January. 9 12. OK. Mr.

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Gibson, your, uh, the early part of your childhood and the early part of your education, I'm sorry, was primarily in Texas. What type of school did you attend there in Texas? OK, I started, uh, uh, in a private parochial school and a Catholic school when I

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was, uh, 4 years old. And, um I later transferred to a public school, WT Grant. Didn't sound anything. Um. Elementary school, Up until the grade, the 6th grade, I can't move. During the time that uh you were in Texas attending the Catholic school, was there, um,

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after you went to Catholic school and then transferred to the public schools, you know, you hear so much, uh, I've read in different magazines and articles concerning the uh. Sisters in the church, was there a great difference in the way the, uh, public school teachers taught

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as compared to the sisters? Were the sisters more stern? They were better trained. They were better trained. OK. Mr. Gibson, when you came to Kansas City in 1947, can you possibly recall what schools you, what elementary, what you would have been in junior high, right? No,

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I came here and started the 7th grade and they, they didn't have high concept here in Kansee at that time. I was in the 7th grade, went to Phillips, which is located at the 24th. OK. During this time, what type of, uh, curriculum was being taught

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in Kansas City, Kansas? Was it basically, uh, Kansas City, Missouri? Was it basically reading, writing, arithmetic, or? The normal, uh, The, the accepted curriculum at that time was extremely limited. We didn't have any, uh, in the black public schools, you didn't have any, Uh, real strong

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stuff that you have history, math, and English, there are no Latin or anything like that at all. OK. In the day. Yes. What about the recreational activities? The thing, the recreational activities were really a normal thing, volleyball. Ca calisthenics was not uh emphasized in terms of

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what I mean by that development of uh physical skill. There, there were no accommodations. Like public schools. There were not that many, uh, schools, uh, elementary schools at that time. The, uh, geographical black community was packed into a specific area. I think you had the Carver,

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uh, neighborhood, uh, I mean, Carver Elementary School, and you had Book T. Washington and you have Yo. There were, uh, no other, uh, you had B. Beyond that, there were no other elements of black elementary schools at that time. During this time, did you attend the

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church in a show of what religion worship? When I first time I came to see, uh, My family, whole family is Baptist, whole background is Baptist. Uh, we all, uh, joined Saint Stephen's Church, Baptist Church, but I didn't attend that regularly. I attended Saint Paul Presbyterian.

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Mr. Gibson, uh, Mr. Gibson, from the years 1955 to 1958, you were active in the Air Force. Could you discuss that for me? Well, you know, the Air Force is, uh, You know, everybody, it was just, it was not war. It was not war at that

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time. There was no fighting. It was right after the Syrian conflict. Uh, I was out of high school, able to, uh, find a job or anything like that. So I joined the Air Force like many other youngsters. And it was in the Air Force that I

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had a roommate. Again to. Speak basic about sound intelligence. Uh, the use of uh, a person's mind to further expand his opportunities. But prior to that time, I skated through high school. I didn't pay very much attention to the curriculum. In fact, I didn't learn anything

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while. You so you didn't learn anything you didn't want to learn it. One thing I didn't learn anything right. Uh, the, the, the school at that time was not basically sound enough as an institution, as far as I'm concerned. To harness the imagination and interest of

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kids unless they were exceptionally intelligent. Uh, come from a background or a family that, uh, Play heavy on the fact that they must obtain an academic curriculum to prepare themselves for college. Uh, my family, I am the first generation within my family, my immediate family come,

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come out of college. My mother never did. 5 and that would be it. Uh, he's following you. What college did you obtain a degree at? What, and what's the degree in? So out, out. OK. When you came, when you returned to Kansas City in '58 from

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the Air Force, correct? Right. You started working, uh, at the post office. What, what was the job at the post office? A very menial job with nail hammers pulling mail things. Was there any specific training for this? Were you tested for this? OK, in your autobiography

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you state that the employmentist post office made you aware of the many instances the white race, uh, the white faith. Mhm. Explain that. Well, But that hasn't changed to this, to this day yet. The, the postal service is a penal institution. It's no different from prison.

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Uh, it is a slave labor. Kind of, uh, situation. You, it's no different than the cotton field and I have picked cotton before in my life, so I, I know about that. Yeah, I have. Yeah. And, uh, So Parts of the country and that be the

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first time you had a guy overseas. So the post office is similar to a slave situation. Uh, if you want to do anything, you have to get permission from some white faith authority, and I resented that. So, I began to become involved, The union activity that,

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Provided some rights for the individual as an employee. OK, in 1966. You published a newspaper. What was the name of the newspaper? What type of media was covered in the newspaper? In 1956, well, before 1956, I, I, uh, I'm not too sure about the date. Um,

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I began publishing the monarch Regiment. And there's a monthly publication disseminating, Opinions Of individuals that could not get an opportunity to speak or articulate their view about anything in particular. It's that way today as it was then, where the only, the only way that you could

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get in the paper is to rob, lake, steal or, or something like that. Or you have to be some black person that has flew around the world in 10 minutes. Then he'd get that kind of trouble. The paper is a traditional instrument. In the community. But

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it did not give poor people an opportunity to speak out. And I had a lot of views. I was frustrated and I was not able to, uh, Expound upon some of the things I thought was troubling at that point. So, not having that particular opportunity, I

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began publishing my own paper. How were you funded? I wasn't funded. I borrowed $5000. The credit union. Which I ain't pay you back yet, all of it. OK. OK. And, uh, I, I had some experience, uh, Uh, in the field, uh, Because I am a commercial

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artist. I, I, I knew something about artwork. Uh, I did, A publication for the postal credit, I mean, postal. Mailho Union. And I had had fooled around with it some, some time, but all the payslips, layouts, all the writing, reporting, I do it all myself. OK.

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Uh, what exactly can you just, Describe the feeling that you received from the community during the time that you were publishing the paper. OK, the community is not, not very receptive to the paper. Um, did they feel that it was, uh, biased? Right, yeah, but they

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didn't understand what I was saying. Basically, and this is a very strong statement, I still believe it, and it's not an indictment. Majority of black people are still functionally lied and they don't understand. Uh, the predicament that they're in and they're risk situation. If you're critical,

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I mean, the majority of black people only want to talk about things that have some success attached to it. If a person speaks Against something Uh, they, they began to run tiny that they become hospital, They give you a rough time. Lamar record was, as far

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as I'm concerned, was not a very successful venture. It did open my eyes to a lot of other things, and it did expose a lot of things to people. But, uh, The last, uh, Is that I put out a little called Electronic ***. OK. Not very

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many people went to that. I can't imagine. Nothing So, you know, that was, I was trying to instill into every individual need to, Speak out and not remain silent, and that was the primary purpose. OK, I need to speak out in organizing the Black Association for

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Needy Children. Were you also speaking out to the people in respect to help the black children? Well, it became clear to me that black kids at that time And, and today, uh, those who don't have any place to go, you see kids walking down the street

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and you think they're going somewhere and they ain't going nowhere. They just walk. Uh, parents put them out. If they don't have any parents and live with relatives or friends, they put them out. Uh, there's no institution where they can go unless they have committed some

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crime to crime. There's no, the program. Uh, and I became aware of that. And had a benefit for the Niles home brought Mahalda Jackson here in 1969, I believe it was '68 or '69. And that was in preparation for the fun week. Right. And, uh, after

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that, for several years after that, he was functioning, uh, in terms of providing clothing and food on an emergency basis for, for, for children. Uh, presently you're not doing very much. They have to become dipping. There, there has to be a price. You can get, you

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can get. There's no price that they won't mobilize. OK. Now, I, um, I also know that you are involved with model cities, and you have been since 19. Yeah.70. In 70 to 75, I was the executive director of a, of a neighborhood corporation that was fun

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through model program, which, The program is not in existence, OK, what type of program was it and why? It was a faulty. It was, um, it was a program, That designed and promoted a false economy that provided some jobs for some people and some services. That

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put people, Away from the main thing. It was a byproduct of the riot in the. Are you recalling the riots of Martin Luther King, uh, during this time? 56 to 67, 65. Right after that, you had, you had the mouse came into the system. And supposed

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to change the economic and social lifestyles of poor disadvantaged people locked into the city. They did not do that. You could have spent some $36 million in about, uh, 5 years. It, it, it has not changed anything. Hm. In '72, when you were working with the

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Ohio, Ohio State uh Democrat political caucus, exactly what was your position there? In what capacity were you working? As a consultant to the group and trying to sensitize uh black people in that particular area of the country. To, uh, form a coalition of interested individuals. To,

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uh, advocate, protect their, uh, political rights as individuals. And that was basically my involvement. Did you, did you feel that there was any gain for the people in Ohio. In Ohio. OK. This was not done in Missouri? It has not been done as yet according to

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the Missouri area. You have a, a, a parochial black political faction. But you don't have any Before that, OK. Uh, let's move in, uh, to the year 1973. Uh, The street rally. Oh, that was, uh, uh, we set up what's called a Black United eel. um,

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I, I, I feel that, uh, the United Way is not doing anything, I put a barrel out in the street and it weighed $1500 a day. And, uh. In one day one day. Uh-huh. And, and use that money to foster and promote and develop the Black

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United Appeal, which is, is in existence right now. We recently gave some money to the black adoption. Uh, you can't be cancer. And, uh, that's the purpose of that. We, we do plan to move, you know, into a full-fledged campaign with the Black United Way, but

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that has not been done yet. OK. Uh, in 1974, Mr. Gibson, the national office of the Opportunity Industrial Industrialization Center of America contacted you. Can you tell me just what for? Well, the OIC is a is a program that was designed by Reverend Leon in Philadelphia.

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Manpower, training. Program that provides, uh, the individual, An opportunity to educate himself and become part of the main working force. And, um, there was not one in Kansas City. And, uh, they asked me to work very hard to develop an interest group. And I did that.

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Organize the OIC in Missouri, which is funded for about $200,000. I'm chairman of the Grey. OK, where would the, where would the office be located? 1811 A. OK, now you're saying that, Uh, to help people. And what type are they vocational? Basic education. Basic education. Yeah,

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that's the main. OK. Basic education, high school level? Are there any Uh, any, uh, dealing with the vocational. Pre-vocational. Pre-vocation. Right. OK, after that, say, can a person go and obtain his high school diploma by taking a test? Taking a GED test, yeah. OK. What type

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of personnel? They have a staff in a, in a whole, Group of teachers over there. OK, now the teachers do have degrees. Um-hum. They are from the public school system. They are from, now, would they be on loan from the public school system? No, we have

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them. Oh, OK. Now, also, uh, Mr. Gibson, you've had so many jobs, and I find you in one area, maybe say 5 to 6 months and then in another area. What is the reason for this? Well, actually, What, you know, what it's been, I have had

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for 5 years, I was working in, For the neighborhood planning group Mile to this program. I was working there. But at the same time, I had 3 or 4 other kinds of jobs at the very same time. Uh, uh, you know, I was acting as a

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consultant, uh, And, uh, I was, you know, flying to different parts of the country. And uh I, I have, uh, I held more than one job at the, at the same time. Usually, what is the reason for leaving the job? Well, Just, you know, I don't

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think a person can stay in a job more than two. I really don't. Even, even if he, he, uh, is economically secure. What? Is that becoming passive then you're saying? Well, you know, I, I just, uh, well, well, you know, a person could feel that he's

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economically secure. Uh, some people feel if they make $15,000 they're economically secure, but the gross national pride of this country is 1 trillion $50 billion you know, if, if people are satisfied with that. You know, I don't have any problem with that, but, uh, Economic security

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is one thing. Being able to function. See the dysfunction is another thing. Function properly. I was reading the other day where a doctor, a very successful doctor in Atlanta, Georgia, went into the hamburger business. Where a hamburger. That's nice. OK. So you will be continuing until

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you are. Yeah, until I find something that I really want to do. I'm quite sure when you do, uh, when, You will find it. And it would more than likely, I feel, be related to the black people. Do you feel that way or is it? Maybe.

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I'm not too sure about. I don't think there, there is no hope for black people until, unless they, Unless they move in as a core group. I have a problem. I don't, I don't know how black people can, can continue every day here in Kansas City

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and know that in the Wayne Minor area alone, there are young black babies being born who will never reach their potential. Now I don't know how many *** can overlook it. It's right, perfectly healthy, but you give them, give them a year and that, and they

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will never make it. And I hear people going on and say, oh, we don't have any problems, we do have problems. And until those who, who view themselves as, as successes, and, and they, they live in a controlled success environment. Somebody allows them to, We're not

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successful just because we're using it anyway. Forget about what's happening to you in the way man. Every day, but I'm working with a one family right now. I'm a volunteer parole officer. And, uh, 25 people live in one house. One bed. OK, one bed in the

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house, one front room chair, a dinette kitchen dinette table with one chair. And ain't nothing else in there. They got a television. When you say 25 people, are you, are children, are they Adults and everybody. Most of them are children. Is, is it a community house?

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No, it's a family. None of, none of these kids are over, The oldest kid is about 19, the rest of them are, and 5 of them he's never been to school. Never, never been enrolled. Now, that ain't just one situation here in Kansas City. How is

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the situation. Well, Mr. Gibson, if there, if there is a way to help black people. If there's something that you could say to a black child, what would you say? Try to, uh, get their education, but then it. But then you're saying it, it's still ruled

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by white man. Yeah, see, I used to, I used to have problems with the school boards. They used to say, they like to worry about, you know, my child, and she's at the center right now, I used to worry about, you know, what to do about

00:24:35.469 - 00:24:56.910

that, but I had, but doctors took me to New Orleans to address the International Reading Association. And I run into a group called the curriculum developers. And everything in the school books, Are geared towards the agricultural age. Which means that when a kid graduates, he can't

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function. He can't, Because we're in an age of cybernetics computer, all and chemicals. Jobs are related to that. When you get a person that's been taught. Things about the agricultural age and he has an agricultural mentality. The only kind of jobs you can get is jobs

00:25:17.170 - 00:25:34.619

of, of menial chance. You can't go into the computer, area of computer cybernetics. Program, weather and stuff like that, so, I just forgot about the school system, you know, it's important to me to think about. Mhm. Well then, basically you need to start in the school

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system. Yeah, well, you know, that's, that's a whole that's a whole another thing. You know, how do you deal with that? Mr. Gibson, you're presently working for the Housing Urban Development. Just what is your position with it? What type of jobs I'm social investigator, which means

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I'm, I'm working in an area of equal opportunity and fair housing. The 1968 Civil Rights Act. OK, uh, now. In this position, do people turn over, uh, complaints to you? Is it what type of complaints are you, do you usually get? In the area of fair

00:26:15.760 - 00:26:41.579

housing, employment. And That's. OK, could you give me an example of one. Well, uh, That builds a house and then side bombs it here in Kansas. That's exactly. OK, what exactly would you do? Well, he filed a complaint and we investigate it to find out what,

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what would have happened. Does this have anything to do with his insurance? No. He's his wife and burned his house up. OK. Or if the person want, want to move into an apartment complex and the person won't, OK. Uh, let's talk a little about your family

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life. Do you have, uh, are you married? Do you have any children? I have one daughter. I am divorced. How old is your daughter? What school does she attend? She's 13 and she's in Central Virginia. OK. I also want to ask you, uh, could you tell

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me of any incidents racially involved where you were the person that was a victim maybe of a racial slander or at any time during your life you encountered anything of this type? Yeah. Uh, during the time that Emmett, Emmett Till was killed in Mississippi, 1950. 6.

00:27:38.930 - 00:27:56.760

I was on a Greyhound bus and I was coming from, traveling from Houston, Texas to Lake Charles, Louisiana. And at that time, the buses, you had to, uh, stand up. On the Greyhound bus he just couldn't. Where you want to sit. Why couldn't you sit? Because

00:27:56.760 - 00:28:14.000

it just wouldn't have sand on there. Because you were black? Right. OK. Colored to the red. Colored, OK. And, uh, The bus was crowded and I was standing up and the guy, uh, you know, just, just grabbed me, just took his hand and was squeezing, squeezing

00:28:14.000 - 00:28:46.119

myth. And, uh, You just tell me that what they call a mass squeeze, And, but I was afraid. OK. And he held me like that, Over 100 miles and you stood. The man was white. The man was white. He was like But at that time, I

00:28:46.119 - 00:29:07.290

had, uh, had seen several black people hanging. Where at? In Louisiana, Lake Charles, Louisiana, and, uh, were you in the military? Yeah, right. Were the people that were hanging, were they military? It was, uh, it was quite terrible at that time. Uh, they had curfews out

00:29:08.089 - 00:29:26.140

that. Uh, certain parts of the neighborhood, and then the city blacks were not allowed. Uh, I can remember very vividly at that time, uh, in, in Lake Charles, Louisiana, and people took the bus. They had, from the back door, back, they had a, a person standing

00:29:26.140 - 00:29:40.040

there with a cane. And you put your money in the back door and you get in. You, you can go to the front door. And uh it was just packed back there in the back of the bus like er all the seats up front you couldn't

00:29:40.040 - 00:29:58.819

even walk through the front of the bus. You had to get on at the back door you pay your money back. And that was in the 50s Another thing they used to vote down there, uh, they bring the election booth. To, uh, a nightclub. And the

00:29:58.819 - 00:30:14.839

man come in there and he set up the whole place, give everybody, and he brought his band with him. And he makes a few speeches and then everybody votes and he leaves and they take the machine with them. And that was in the 50s 5657. Were

00:30:14.839 - 00:30:33.229

the people told who to vote for since he was bringing his band you vote for him, he was there. He was there I said what is this? And when he left, the music stopped and more free drinks. He promised you, like, you know, street lights and,

00:30:33.500 - 00:30:50.630

you know, a couple of street lights and stuff like that, getting the black vote. He at P Long at that time came on television and said there's too many ***. In the south. We're gonna build bigger penitentiaries and put all the *** in there. Making those

00:30:50.630 - 00:31:11.680

kind of campaigns be so intelligible. OK, now during that time, like the time when you were on the bus. You didn't try to retaliate in any manner was that Emmett Till had just been killed. And his body was mutilated. In early '56. And you had a

00:31:11.680 - 00:31:29.829

series of, of incidents related similar to the Emmett Till, you know, murder, and uh, I was, you know, sort of, you know, apprehensive and I didn't, you know. Do you believe or have you tried since then if you've been placed in that situation to retaliate, if

00:31:29.829 - 00:31:47.209

not physically but verbally? I wouldn't say nothing verbal unless I was able to do something physical about it. Like kill something. On behalf of the Black Archives, Mr. Gibson, thank you.