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This is May 5th, 1976. I am Ella Pruitt. I am interviewing Fletcher D. Daniels. We're going to begin focusing primarily on his early childhood. Mr. Daniels, will you tell me when and where you were born? I was born September 8th, 1919. In Muscogee, Oklahoma. OK, will

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you tell me something about your parents, their names and uh possibly something about their backgrounds? Uh, my father's name was Fletcher Daniels, which made me a junior incidentally, um, and my mother was Charity Daniels. Both of them were originally from Texas. My father worked at the

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post office. He was an interagency field clerk, uh, and for 38 years, he worked at the post office and took care of the five civilized tribes in Oklahoma. Uh, probably be a little unusual for you, but Oklahoma has five civilized tribes. They are Cherokee, Choctaw, Seminoles,

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Creeks, and Chickasaws. Maybe you've heard of er the er Turkey Indians or you probably know something about Bacon College there in Muskogee. Uh, my dad had the job of seeing that they had those things that were necessary because most of these Indians lived on the reservation.

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Mr. Daniels, do you have any brothers or sisters? If so, could you give me their names? Yes, I have two sisters. Uh, my older sister is Jeffrey Daniels Bolton, uh, who live in Tulsa, Oklahoma now. I have a younger sister, Floristine Daniels Cadney, who is a

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teacher. Here in the Kansas City public school system and has taught here for some 20 years. Uh she is er er the younger sister. I don't have any brothers at all. OK, growing up in Muskogee, Oklahoma, what type of recreational activities were available to you in

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your neighborhood? Uh, you would not be surprised if I would tell you that. Uh, recreational activities were limited. Uh, we did have, uh, a park near my home that we played in. Uh, we, uh, had our sports activities there. We had a swimming pool incidentally up

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on what we call Old Standpipe Hill. Uh, of course there were those of us who had a chance to swim in the old PNG railroad yard because they had a pool there where they watched the trains and we got our swimming lessons in that old pond.

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Uh, when, when you were at the park, uh, were there any chaperones? No, there were no chaperones. It was, uh, kids getting together, uh, doing it as we saw it, and it was strictly neighborhood kids, uh, OK, uh, beginning with your early education, what elementary school

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did you attend and if you can recall, what type of curriculum? Surprisingly enough, er, I did attend, uh, Dunbar Elementary School and, and in Dunbar, we had the, er, basics, reading, writing, arithmetic, er, I had some limited art classes, we had a little music that was

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er brought right in with the er with the curriculum, uh. Uh, the elementary school was, uh, not a neighborhood school like we hear people talking about today. We had to walk some mile, 1.5 miles to school. OK, uh, during this time, uh, with your elementary school,

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was there any program or coordination for the students, whereas maybe you could go out, say 3rd graders could go up to maybe the Y on Saturday? Did they have anything like that? No, we didn't have any kind of like that at all. We were under the

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constant supervision of our teachers all day. The only chance that we got to leave the school er was perhaps class projects where we would go into er the egg factory or we would tour the post office or some of the other business er and community er

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operations there in Muskogee, but as far as er what you mentioned, no, it was completely new. OK. Your secondary, uh, uh, meaning junior high school. What school did you attend? Well, uh, we had the junior and senior high school, uh, composition. Uh, manual training high school

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carried the 7th through the 12th grade and of course, uh, you attended your junior and senior high school in the same building. Uh, the curriculum there, if you want to talk about curriculum, was about the same as you would find in the average high school here

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except Some of the things that we might consider frills today, we didn't have them, but we had reading, writing, arithmetic, history, and all of the regular basic subjects. Uh, 7 through 12, right? Now we know usually we'll say here in Kansas City, say 7th through 9th

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grade, now say junior high school. Were you allowed to have any type of, not in the 12th grade, maybe in the 9th grade going through manual training? Did they set up any programs, say, in May where you would get to have a small graduation, meaning you're

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going to high school, or just, uh, did they just consider that you just went straight through? right straight through. You, uh, probably, uh. Stopped long enough maybe to be recognized as er changing but as far as the exercise, no, that was done in the country schools

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around us. OK. In high school, Uh, what were your major interests at this time? Uh, in high school, my major interest, uh, would, uh, probably be, uh, psychology. I had such an exciting psychology teacher. Uh, Oi Oi was our teacher and I'm trying to get for

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you his last name because he was an exciting teacher and, and he taught psychology. And made it so interesting that we were on debate teams as a result of the strategies that we got in our psychology class, er, and this sort of thing that made er

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for some extra er school activities and I'm still trying to get his name and probably I'll I'll I'll stumble upon it before um. Uh, going too far, I've gone too far. OK, any sports activities during that time? Well, we had football and certainly we had exciting

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times with football and I didn't play, but er I did er find football the most interesting sport and er participated as far as following the team or as far as going to all the football games. Um, was in the pep squad, this sort of thing, kind

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of team booster that made, uh, we consider that probably the top sport. OK, am I correct in saying that Dunbar was predominantly black, correct? Yes, yes. And also manu train. Right. Uh, how would you compare, Uh, predominantly black high school of that day as far as

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the rapport, as far as the students getting in and doing something together as of the schools now, do you think there has just because of the schools are, are now integrated, do we lose some of, say, the school spirit? I think that, uh, for the most

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part, the school spirit in that day. Was much higher than the school spirit we find today because We were uh more of a family. Uh, kind of, uh, in a more of a family kind of situation I would say. Everybody there, uh. Kind of related in

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their experiences, desires and everything else to everybody else, and I think that made the difference, uh. We We knew that we had our own football team, we knew that we had our own er er debate teams and this sort of thing, and we just, I believe

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had a had a kind of kinship spirit there during that time. Did you have more winning years? Did you have a good football team? Oh yes, manual training had a good football team and the spirit uh in the activities, uh, was so high. We played against

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Tulsa, we played against McAllister. And that was a big a big thing, it was an event, you know, and, and it happened on Thanksgiving Day is when Muscogee met Tulsa. And surprisingly enough, I say the spirit was high then because grown people would go from Muskogee

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to Tulsa following the team by train loads and cars on the highway, bumper to bumper going to Tulsa to see a high school football team play. And then the next Thanksgiving, Tulsa would come to Muskogee. And for years, these were events that people would come from

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New York, Chicago, from Los Angeles to see the Muskogee Tulsa football game. That's the school spirit. OK. Uh, uh, during your childhood or say we're going through adolescence now, were you a member of any church? Oh, indeed so. I've been a member of the Mount Calvary

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Baptist Church there in Muscogee for, uh, all that period and certainly, uh, go back there now and feel quite at home, so. Do you recall the minister's name? Yes, uh, I recall all of the minister's names. Could you give me the names? Well, the first minister

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I can remember was Reverend Crockett. Uh, Reverend Crockett and then we had a minister who moved to Oklahoma City, Reverend Fairley. Uh, today's pastor is Reverend Reed, uh, I could go on and on naming the pastors for 50 years up until now. Well, you know, uh,

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now. Usually the churches during say summer vacation when the children do not have to go to school, they have set up maybe vacation Bible schools. What did the church offer for the children during that time? Well, we had uh uh vacation Bible schools in that time

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and I'm talking about 50 years ago. vacation Bible school is not nothing new in in Baptist churches and we we had vacation Bible schools, we had, um, Uh, civic societies in the church program. That's very much like you might find in some churches today, they give

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it another name, but it's been involved in community affairs and in the affairs of the community. OK. What year did you graduate from high school? 1937. After graduating, what did you first do? After graduating from high school, I went into business. I opened up the first

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bowling alley that they had in Muskogee on North Second Street. Uh, while I was operated the bowling alley, I got drafted into the army. And uh went to uh went to the service. OK, opening up a business in Muskogee, how were you financed? What did you

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do to go about getting this business? Well, uh, typical of our people, uh, the need to open the alley and the assessment was made by a white person. And the money put up to open that bowling alley was er come from the same source. So uh

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I did open the bowling alley, I did operate the bowling alley, but the real owner was a white person. Do you his name? I, I, it's been so long, we're talking about 40 something years or more ago and I, uh, I just don't want to try

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to get it. OK. OK. In the military, what branch? How many years, and in what capacity? All right, uh, interesting enough, I've served in the army. Uh, I was a non-commissioned officer in Camp Walters, Texas. That was the largest training replacement center in the world at

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that time and perhaps there's never been a larger training replacement center. Even since that time, and that was at Camp Wallace, Texas. After some years there training infantry soldiers, uh, I moved to Fort Wachuca and joined the 93rd Division. Fort Wachuca is in Arizona, one of

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our large forts, Fort Machuca, Arizona. And I joined the 93rd Division there and uh I worked in the AT&T section, or that's telephone television. section and happened to be uh the wire man and put in telephones for the 93rd Division. OK, now you said you had

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set up the bowling alley. Was that your first business? How early did you begin to earn a living? I mean, earn a living just to support yourself? Was that the first time that you were? I would say yes, uh-huh. OK. Uh, now this wasn't really related,

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uh, like to continue school or anything. This was, this was just a means of Making a living. Making a living. Right. Uh, do you recall, um, can you recall approximately maybe how much you would clear per day or make per week, something of that nature? Well,

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it was exciting because you'll have to remember what the setting was like in that day. During those times, the average man was making about $1200 a year if he had a good job. Uh, the average man then made about $1 a day working 12 hours a

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day. Uh, I would assume that, uh, I'm, I'll take in would be something like $15 to $20 a day, which was real money in those times. OK, uh, Mr. Daniels, you are married. Can you tell me when you met your wife, how you met your wife,

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and what is her name? Well, let me start at the last part. Her name is Sybil Reese Calvert Daniels. I met Sybil in Portland, Oregon. After I finished tour of duty in the army, which she did ask me uh some 5 years, well, in fact, 4

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years, 4 months. I, I finally moved to Portland, Oregon and I met Sybil in Portland. I've been married to her 30 years, uh, if June the 5th. And, uh, 30 good years. OK. Now, uh, when did you first come to Kansas City? I first came to

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Kansas City in January 1946 and I left and went to Portland, found Sybil, and then I came back to Kansas City to take a job with the post office. OK, so, uh, employment was your reason for coming to Kansas City. Describe Kansas City in 1946, the

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black community. Where are the people living? Alright, uh, in 1946, the majority of black people lived in an area bounded by 27th Street on the south, the river on the north. There were a few black people in on the west side, a few more in the

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Westport district. There were a few out around Fifty-Fourth Street near Prospect. A few more lived in an area that we call Roundtop that's located near Sears and Roebuck, and a few across the river in North Kansas City. But for the most part, the er majority of

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black people lived in that area that I mentioned in the front. OK, what type of employment? Were the people in Kansas City, were they usually laborers at that time? Yes, uh, there were few blacks in white-collar jobs in Kansas City, very, very few. The uh best

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kind of job was postal work and it was newer to a great extent because you didn't have any black clerks in 46, but you did have carriers and you had custodians or janitors. Had a few watchmen. OK. But, uh, the, uh, train porter, that was a

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good living for a black in that time and, um, janitor and custodial work. OK, now the position you accepted when coming here was? A clerk. I came in as a postal clerk. OK. And what post office do you work? Uh, I began to work at the

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main post office here, 215, it's 315 Pershing Road. And that's our main post office, but as time went on, I became one of the first black clerks, if you would, to er do what we call a window work. That's working in the er er postal window.

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And uh I was used all over Kansas City, kind of experimental kind of thing and I think I probably worked in more different post offices than any other person in the in the area or any other person in the last 30 years. I worked at Wind

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at Plaza, Westport, Country Club, Prairie Village, North Kansas City, Leeds, uh, I worked at Fairmount, uh, almost every postal substation in Kansas City and that's OK, as a, as a window clerk, now just exactly what did you have to do, just what was your job description?

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All right, as a window clerk, we sold stamps, money orders, and at one time we opened up postal savings accounts for those people who wanted to save their money in the postal service system. Uh, I think we've probably phased out of that now and allowed that

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to be a bank situation, but in those days, you could open up a postal savings account. And that was one of the, uh, duties of a postal clerk. Do you recall how much, uh, you were paid? Yeah, $1200 a year. OK. Now, the social life at

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that time in Kansas City. All the social life at that time in Kansas City was um hm. Nice in that uh segregated, you know, uh but uh we went from house to house, we had house parties, uh, uh, club parties, uh, uh, we had picnics and

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other things. So I think the social life was healthy and uh and very entertaining. OK, having traveled now you've been in the service. Uh, you set up, uh, a bowling alley in Muskogee. Now you're in Kansas City. Were you ever a victim of public embarrassment, uh,

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meaning in the nature of a racial incident? No, uh, but I did, uh, have a lot of chances to, uh, Put forth some effort in the defense of uh in the interest of uh A number of times other blacks who did find themselves in that category,

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but as far as I'm concerned, the only embarrassment that I might have had was er the fact that we could not go where we would want to go. We had to drink out of separate fountains when I came here, er, at the Union Station and stores

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downtown, you saw signs that said white only. Those things were certainly embarrassing, but As far as a personal incident, uh, I didn't encounter any other than those kind. OK, uh, in, in the preliminary, you said 1946 to 1947, you recalled the lady, Ruth Kerford. Right. Could

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you explain? What happened to her? Yeah, well, Ruth Kerfoot, uh, was and is today a mortician here who had been a fairly lucrative business and happened to be downtown to do her Christmas shopping and she chose Macy's store to shop in. She had a young daughter

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with her who was perhaps from 4 to 6 years old at that time, Lisa Kerman. Uh, Lisa saw people eating in the dining room and realized that she was hungry too, and she began to cry for food. But at that time, the only way that Ruth

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could get food for the child was to take her from Macy's across the streets to Cressy's or Wordsworth and buy a hamburger or a hotdog and the kid would have to stand up and eat the hamburger and hotdog because there were no provisions for blacks to

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sit down and relax while they ate downtown. And so from this, uh, angered feeling, Ruth went back and reported to her club. Do you know the name of that club at that time? The Kansas Citians. Twin Cians Club. Twin Cians Club. OK, what action did they

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take? They called, they, they heard Ruth's story and decided that they should make their club project for the year, that of opening the downtown store restaurants to all customers regardless of creed or color. They realized that this would be quite an undertaking and they decided that

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they would call in all the organizational leaders in Kansas City and tell them what they had planned to do and to get their cooperation and they did this, and in that call, they got uh leaders and uh people from a number of organizations in Kansas City

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that to some 500 people. They met at the Broomell Club and at that time the Broomell Club was a very popular club in Kansas City who had beautiful facilities at 18th and 4th and they told the story to this 500 and we organized what was later

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to become the Community Committee for Social Action. OK, now you were active in this movement or what I'm considering a movement or Excuse me. Or uh project a program to get something done about this. Now you were with the National Alliance. OK, now you were their

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their president at this time. OK. After, uh, uh, they held the meeting and everything, what happened? Alright, uh, I would like to say that all the social clubs were a part of this along with uh church groups, the block clubs, so forth and so on. We

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organized and, uh, decided that we would, uh, have a woman president. There would never be a man president because the ladies brought the project forward. And of course, Ruth Kerford naturally was the first president of CCSA. We decided that the men would be uh the leaders

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on the board of directors. You see, and so then we named a man then as chairman of the board of directors. The first chairman of the board of directors was Reverend EA Freeman, the pastor of the First Baptist Church in Kansas City, Kansas. Incidentally, we brought

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in the people from Kansas City, Kansas as well as those from Missouri on this project. Uh, after Reverend Freeman served for a few months, then Reverend Larry Odom, who at that time was the pastor of Ebenezer Methodist Church, became chairman of the board of directors, and

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after that, then I became the chairman of the board until now, and that's been a number of years ago. OK. How did you go about trying to establish where the, uh, black community could eat at restaurants? Did you boycott? Yes, what we did, we decided that

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the Five stores that was doing most of the business downtown, uh, with, with our people was Jones, Macy's, Klein's, uh, Emmy Bird's Theater, and then we had one other store, uh, Palace. So we decided that we would er approach these stores er with the proposition of

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opening their restaurants and and and er to blacks and so we And naturally we were concerned about blacks. They gave us. Many conference hours, but they felt that they would lose trade or lose business if they allowed us to eat in their restaurants and so we

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had then to resort to Uh, ticketing and, uh, uh, and we did start a picket, we start a program of, uh, protest through picketing, and we certainly stopped most of the business in the downtown area right at Christmas time. This happened right at the Christmas time

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and Uh, nobody in any large numbers at all did any shopping at Christmas time in the downtown stores of Kansas City. What was the managers or whoever was over at say Jones' store, when they received the letter, did they correspond in any way? Well, at first,

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They responded, but they finally got a little indignant. I can remember the uh president of Jonesto said to us, said, well, we know that you're going to raise sand for a little while, but it's typical of your people to raise sand for a while and then

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it'll die out and so we won't be bothered by the noise you're making. But he was surprised when he found out that the business of his store dropped down from whatever the percentage was to nothing and the uh The operation was so successful that you could

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hardly hear a pinfall downtown during the whole Christmas, uh, shopping time and And after Christmas they put on the white goods sales knowing that they would certainly get to us then. And lo and behold they didn't have anybody to come downtown to buy anything, even those

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white goods sales that they had. Now a few of our people did order. And we would see the trucks in the neighborhood bringing things to the community, but we didn't get excited about this because we knew they would order only what they wanted. But when you

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go in the store, you're subject to going in there for one thing and you pick up something else. So we didn't get disturbed about that at all. Our our effort was successful and finally they gave up and they did allow us to eat in the downtown

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store. OK, let me ask you this. When you were, uh, picketing, Uh, did the officials in the store try to contest this? Did you have to go maybe downtown to City Hall or somewhere and get an official, uh, we had clearance with the, uh, City Hall

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and with the police before we started. We had parade permits when we got ready to parade, uh, we had the authority from the police to picket those stores. We didn't encounter any trouble at all. The only thing that we did encounter from the managers of those

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stores was, uh, two or three of them coming out to persuade us that they had changed their mind and it wasn't their fault that this was happening, that they didn't feel that way at all, but they The merchants association had them in a bind why they

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couldn't do what they wanted to do and so we said to them, well, you'd better work with the Merchants Association because we're going to stay here until such time and we get some action and some consideration. OK, now we know that there were no black officials

00:27:22.579 - 00:27:42.260

in uh Kansas City when you arrived. Do you recall, uh, the beginning? The, say, uh, when the officials were just in their embryotic stage. Yes, uh, as I recall, the first, uh, elected or let's say public official, he might have been appointed was Dal Davis, who

00:27:42.260 - 00:28:04.520

was the editor of the Kansas City Call. I remember him as a police commissioner. Uh, after Dal Davis, uh, held that slot for us. Uh, the first appointed, uh, judge was Judge Carl R. Johnson, who was very active then as the president of the NAACP. Uh,

00:28:04.530 - 00:28:25.800

Carl R. Johnson finally passed, and when he passed, uh, Judge Louis Clymer was, uh, put in, in, in, in Judge Johnson's place, and Judge Clymer still served, but today he's a circuit judge. Now he's been elected to that office and Uh, Spottsville, um, is a municipal

00:28:25.800 - 00:28:42.719

judge today and of course, Leonard Hughes is a magistrate, which, uh, you notice in the paper is going to change to, uh, a different form of judgeship now as result of the legislature action, uh, just last night, yesterday. OK, now the election for the people for

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city council. That began after the efforts of CCASA and of course we kind of put a breach there after let me just drop this in after we got the stores to allow us to eat at the downtown stores, we went back and the next project was

00:28:59.430 - 00:29:12.199

to get jobs because you can't eat if you don't have the money to pay for the food, so we knew that these stores should allow us to have jobs. And again we encountered the same kind of rhetoric which we did before and that they said, oh,

00:29:12.270 - 00:29:26.650

if we hire clerks in these stores, well, we'll certainly lose business and, and we, we just can't do that. And so we had to go the same route again and that's boycotting and then picketing. And some of the most interesting stories came out of this. In

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our strategy, we've got businesses, churches, Uh, individuals who were trading in those downtown stores to pay their accounts off, and we had stickers that they put on the bill saying if we see no improvement in your hiring policy, you'll see no more activity from us. We're

00:29:45.400 - 00:30:02.469

now closing this account. Uh, we decided that these kinds of strategy was the kind that would certainly get attention when you start getting in their pocketbook, then they pay attention to you. And so we had huge accounts closed, churches, uh, schools, uh, uh, individuals that were

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buying on large volumes. Uh, the one woman had $1300 worth of furniture on the truck that she bought, uh, at one of the downtown stores, and it was in the Bird Theater. And when they loaded the furniture on, she said to them, oh, by the way,

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uh, do you have any black clerks in your store? And they said, well, no, not yet. She said, Well then I don't want that furniture. And so they had to unload the $1300 worth of furniture, and it wasn't too long after that that we saw the

00:30:31.219 - 00:30:48.680

first black clerk in Emmy Birdha. But, uh, Jones' store was the last one to open. Jones let, uh, Macy's and Klein's go first. Emmy Bird Theater waited two weeks and to see how they come out, and then they opened, and then Jones's store opened last. But

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since then, Jones' store has been very liberal in its policy. Would you, uh, know how they screened the individuals that they hired as clerks? Did they face any. Uh, the first people that they hired as clerks. Uh, many of them, except one that I know most

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of, uh, uh, came through. A lot of them came through the Urban League, but, uh, somehow Sybil was one of the first black clerks in Kansas City, and that's at Jones store. Jones. Uh-huh. When Jones opened up, why, Sybil was one of, that's my wife I'm

00:31:25.310 - 00:31:41.300

talking about. Sybil was one of the first black clerks in Jones's store. And they were so completely satisfied with the efforts of those people who went in there until they continued the policy up until now. OK. Now, uh, we need to go to the city council.

00:31:41.380 - 00:32:04.500

All right. Uh, the first person elected to the city council, or the first two I believe was Bruce Watkins and Doctor Thomas, Earl Thomas. Uh, they, uh, went in to the city council by-election first and then Lawrence Blankenship. And then we, uh, finally got to, uh,

00:32:04.510 - 00:32:24.630

Richard Talbot and then we've got a young man that's still there now. Uh, I called his name earlier, Charles Hasley. Uh, now, uh, in the meantime, uh, Bruce Watkins, uh, is, has been re-elected to the city council and he's serving there now. OK. Uh, can you

00:32:24.630 - 00:32:46.060

recall the reaction in the community, uh. It was all throughout the United States during the time of Martin Luther King's assassination. Do you recall how the community in Kansas City, Kansas Kansas City, Missouri, I'm sorry, reacted? I certainly can. Uh, when King was assassinated, naturally it

00:32:46.060 - 00:33:04.410

was a terrible blow here as well as anywhere else, and the first reaction of the community was to, to come along. And as community leaders, about 50 of us were asked to come down to the studio and do a 4-hour talkathon. Uh, where do we go

00:33:04.410 - 00:33:22.709

from here was the subject of it and for 4 hours. That's why we carried on this topic at the conclusion of the 4 hours we had a march from the park on 27th Street to the hill out there by the post office, uh, uh, where the

00:33:22.709 - 00:33:41.410

statue is out there, um, World War One Memorial where all the flags are and all well we went up there and had. Uh, a meeting of all of the community citizens. We had some 50,000 people that, uh, met us there and those of us who were

00:33:41.410 - 00:33:59.359

considered the leaders had uh some speechmaking to do. And of course I was one of those people. Who along with Rabbi Silverman, um, Doctor John W. Williams, Harold Holliday, uh, uh, quite a few of us made speeches telling the people that we should, uh, take this

00:33:59.359 - 00:34:18.090

and, uh, in, uh, a spirit of trying to find out what is best to do at this point and not getting all stirred up and, and, uh. Act out of the motion and cause any greater damage to be done than was done with with the death

00:34:18.090 - 00:34:38.750

of King. After that, most of us flew to Atlanta to the funeral, Doctor King's funeral, and But before we went to Doctor King's funeral on the Monday. Uh, this was on a Sunday we had to talk and the march and, and met the 50,000 people. On

00:34:38.750 - 00:34:54.750

Monday we met at a church to decide what would happen to the school kids. Do you recall what church? Yes, we met at a church here at Lynnwood and, um, Central Methodist Church, the Central Methodist Church on Lynnwood. I can't think of the pastor's name at

00:34:54.750 - 00:35:13.639

that time. I might as I go along, and We met there to decide what we would uh ask the schools to consider as it dealt with the children uh during the day that they would have Doctor King's funeral. And we thought that it would be the

00:35:13.639 - 00:35:30.570

best thing to do and that is not to turn school out and so we asked James Hazlett, who was superintendent of schools, to have school, uh, that day so that the kids wouldn't be wandering around and get in trouble. Now we didn't know that Kansas City,

00:35:30.689 - 00:35:46.870

Kansas was gonna turn the school out and so we made that, uh, offer to the schools and got the idea that they would support this and whole school. And we flew to Atlanta to the funeral, and when we got back, we found out that Kansas turned

00:35:46.870 - 00:36:07.750

school out and we had guessed wrong and our kids walked out and certainly Had a problem with the police and, and, uh, started a little riot. OK. Now you're involved with the NAACP. How early were you involved with the NAACP? Well, let me say that for

00:36:08.889 - 00:36:29.610

Some 30-40 years I've been uh working with or supported, but now during the days shortly after opening the downtown stores and uh and getting the bus drivers, I didn't mention that, but we did use that we did get bus drivers, we did go into banks and

00:36:29.610 - 00:36:47.080

bakeries and get blacks hired there. I'm thinking about CCSA now, but after that I finally had the opportunity to serve. As one of the vice presidents of the NAACP, uh, Leverta Sweatton, who is now the chairman of Jackson County Legislature, was the president, and I served

00:36:47.080 - 00:37:08.510

as one of the vice presidents, and Uh it was uh in the 50s when uh I had a chance to serve the NAACP. Mr. Daniels, in the preliminary, you told me you were also involved with the CCCC. Could you tell me when it was organized, why,

00:37:08.669 - 00:37:38.050

and possibly some of the accomplishments of the TriCC? Triple C, first I'd like to tell you that the organization Triple C has as a name Citizens Coordinating Committee, an organization umbrella organization having in it. A series of community organizations such as the Congress of Racial Equality.

00:37:39.139 - 00:38:09.459

The CCSA, uh, Community Committee for Social Action NAACP. The enter. Catholic Interracial council, the Presbyterian Interracial Council, a number of black churches and other civic organizations all belong to Triple C. Uh, the idea for bringing TripleC into being was to make sure, number one, that each

00:38:09.459 - 00:38:29.219

of these organizations, uh, worked in an area not duplicated by, uh, work of the other organizations. And 2, it was felt at that time that the community should give some attention to the integration of the schools, uh, while there was a chance to do so, uh,

00:38:29.330 - 00:38:52.750

with, uh, uh, before we have, uh, the white flag that developed, uh, after we, uh, began our work and so then the, uh, citizens coordinating committee. Developed a subcommittee on education of which uh Mrs. Gwendo Attorney Gwendolyn Wells shared the chair uh as uh a uh

00:38:52.750 - 00:39:13.060

co-chairman of that subcommittee with me. Uh, we immediately began to address the issues that were, uh, prevalent at that time and that the school district had purchased 3 sites and had in mind, in fact, had proposed to build 3 schools, uh, and we objected to this

00:39:13.060 - 00:39:30.840

because we felt that to build these schools in the black community would only, uh. Uh, continue racial impaction and these schools would be all black soon after they were built and we were concerned about, uh, taking another concept in mind. In fact, at that time we

00:39:30.840 - 00:39:50.429

were talking about, uh, the concept of the middle school program where you would have all the kiddies in a given subject, uh. A grade level, uh, go to one school and thereby foster, uh, integration as well as a good educational experience and so we asked the

00:39:50.429 - 00:40:06.709

schools not to build on those three sites and after, uh, some, uh, discussion and dialogue with the school board at that time, we encouraged them to get a study of the three sites to determine whether or not they would develop into all black schools and so

00:40:06.709 - 00:40:24.800

the board. Hired Doctor Hahurst to do the study and of course he agreed if the members of some of the people in TripleC would also be a part of that study and a group of us uh did participate in the study. I can remember a few

00:40:24.800 - 00:40:43.500

people off the top of my head that participated, uh, naturally our co-chairman as well participated. Uh, I think Julia Hill participated in it. Uh, uh, one of our doctors participated in it who was very, uh, helpful and, and, and who was supporting Triple C, um. The

00:40:43.500 - 00:40:58.780

doctor that's got the that's in the clinic up here, um, oh, I don't know whether you know Doctor Carl Peterson, all of us worked with Doctor Heavenhurst. Now we found out in that study that these three sites would indeed, uh, be, uh, all black schools as

00:40:58.780 - 00:41:14.709

soon as they were built. And so we reached a compromise with the board. Instead of going for the middle school concept, the board asked us to allow them to, uh, build a Martin Luther King. Uh, junior high school and Norman Wick School and that they would

00:41:14.709 - 00:41:30.449

tear down the old manual and build the vocational technical school that's on 15th Street now and certainly is an integrated school and a beautiful school and with this and they promised then that they would build a Northwest High School with the remainder of this bond money

00:41:30.830 - 00:41:45.629

uh that would be located in on the fringe area downtown that would uh attract some integration and with that compromise why. Uh, we allowed them, allowed them to go on and build Martin Luther King Junior and Norman Wicks, and of course you know what has happened

00:41:45.629 - 00:42:05.469

to that. Both of those schools are completely, uh, all black schools today, and, and, uh, as we had predicted, uh, a number of years ago. OK, Mr. Daniels, uh, you are presently a board member, uh, but can you recall any of the past members, I mean

00:42:05.469 - 00:42:26.840

the black. Board members that have served for Kansas City, Missouri. Yes, uh, the first, uh, black board member to serve was, uh, doctor, and, um, um, I, he was a doctor, um, I'll call his name as I go on. I can't. Doctor Ramos, uh, uh, was

00:42:26.840 - 00:42:51.360

the first black board member, and then, uh, Ms. Gertrude Keith. Uh, Father Warner, Samuel Carpenter. Uh, Reverend Briscoe, uh. And then, uh, I had a chance to serve and since then we've got a new uh black board member, Mr. Edward Skaggs. OK, now could, uh, can

00:42:51.360 - 00:43:11.439

you recall how the board members at that time, uh, were elected as compared to now? Uh, yes, uh, during the days that Doctor Ramos went on the board, uh, it was the practice for. The chairman of the Jackson County Democratic Party and the chairman of the

00:43:11.439 - 00:43:28.030

Republican Party or both parties incidentally at the chairman level, uh, would, uh, select and cross endorse, uh, members of the board of education. However, since then, the method has changed and of course, uh, we do have, uh, members of the board elected by district and then

00:43:28.030 - 00:43:43.719

3 members at large. Now we have a 9 member board. 3 of the members are elected at large, and 6 of the members are elected from 6 subdistricts that are made up out of the Kansas City School District. What are the responsibilities of a school board

00:43:43.719 - 00:44:06.649

member? Well, the stated responsibility is to set policy and give direction as to uh the educational process, but you'll find and even in going across the country. That the problems are so complex, uh, today that board members find themselves from time to time for various reasons,

00:44:06.979 - 00:44:26.770

uh, going beyond just setting policy and monitoring it, uh, for instance, uh, it's the obligation of the board of education to. Uh, generate finance, uh, through the state legislature and, and to, uh, do public relations work and work in the community with the people trying to

00:44:26.770 - 00:44:47.429

identify problems with community groups and trying to get them, uh, more supportive of the school system than was normally even necessary some years ago. Uh, can you recall, since you've been a board member, uh, maybe two of the problems that were, uh, most complex and how

00:44:47.429 - 00:45:05.409

were they, uh, solved or what approach did the board take? Well, uh, we had two very serious problems since I've been on the board. One of them was, uh, the problems that led to the teachers' strike. Uh, we had one of the longest strikes in history.

00:45:05.489 - 00:45:23.929

We had a 42 day teacher strike about two weeks or so after I got on the board, and, uh, for 42 days while we, uh, had little education going and most of the time absolutely none, for over 80% of the teachers, or around 80% of the

00:45:23.929 - 00:45:40.139

teachers, uh, left the buildings when the strike occurred. And of course, uh, the 20% left certainly couldn't produce an educational experience for any of the kiddies. One of the great problems at that time grew out of the fact that there was a conflict on the police

00:45:40.139 - 00:46:02.120

department in that there was a new police chief that uh some of the uh police uh on the force uh didn't particularly find themselves in tune with, uh, uh, Chief Police McNamara, yeah. Uh, a very good police chief, uh, is doing an excellent job even today

00:46:02.120 - 00:46:18.300

and has tried to establish the fact that, uh, there should be, uh, uh, equal justice to all people regardless of the race, and I think this is some of the resentment that he met when he tried to put over that kind of program, but anyway, uh.

00:46:19.320 - 00:46:38.760

We had uh a feeling that if we fail to have the teacher strike properly that might add to uh might add to a condition of uh that would support a riot for indeed if. Uh, arrests were made of the teachers. Uh, most of them were respected

00:46:38.760 - 00:46:52.479

people in the community. Uh, a large number of the people that were picketing and, and protesting were black people, and it would have been very easy for the police to have been a little rough with them and, uh, to try to show the chief of police

00:46:52.479 - 00:47:08.419

up was my thought and probably generate a riot. And so that was a very. Particular situation and we did uh get an injunction out against the teachers union and finally sent the president of the union to jail but it was my thought that we shouldn't arrest

00:47:08.419 - 00:47:23.969

any teacher and I felt that way because I felt that they had a legitimate right to protest. Now one of the things, one of the questions that I was asked. That might have been a ticklish question, but I was able to handle it because of my

00:47:23.969 - 00:47:42.270

union experience over a period of 30 years. Uh, they asked me on television one of the television shows, uh, whether I thought the teachers had a right to strike. And my answer was that while uh any organization that had or agency that has the right to

00:47:42.270 - 00:47:59.979

declare that the strike is illegal. Has a moral responsibility to create a mechanism whereby a strike won't be necessary so in the absence of fulfilling the responsibility, uh, that that agent might have then it would leave certainly uh themselves wide open to uh a strike and

00:47:59.979 - 00:48:16.080

therefore, uh, I had uh sympathy with the teachers who were out there because they knew they needed and deserved more pay than they were able to get. OK, now you also have a new appointment from the board in coordination, uh, as a board member. What is

00:48:16.080 - 00:48:34.439

that appointment? I believe it was something. Oh, it so happened that I'm the chairman of the legislative committee. Uh, this is a new appointment and certainly I think the legislative committee is one of the most, uh, significant, uh, committees, if you would, uh, that, uh, that

00:48:34.439 - 00:48:54.840

we have because. Uh, it deals with legislation and certainly we're talking about money and I found out and, uh, that that is one of the problems that is being faced by school districts across the nation, not only our school district, and because of the foundational formula

00:48:54.840 - 00:49:14.310

that we, uh, generate our money from at the state level, uh, needing to be, uh, changed. Uh, the work of the legislation legislation committees is certainly cut out now if you remember at the present time the city council. Uh, came to the aid of the school

00:49:14.310 - 00:49:33.080

district and passed a once a half sick. H cent sales tax in order to generate some $6 million for the school district. Uh, that was 2 years ago and right after the strike and we've had them to renew it and of course we've got until 1977,

00:49:33.379 - 00:49:53.409

uh, to use the benefit of, of that, uh, fund which, uh, just the other day we got a chance to even borrow $4 million on on expected funds as being generated by the half of sales tax. But the legislative committee has a responsibility of not only

00:49:53.409 - 00:50:15.270

generating funds for the district but to address such issues as uh perhaps uh teacher tenure which uh somehow is a problem uh and is a state uh uh problem. And then, uh, such issues as, uh, retirements. I, I'm of, of the opinion that we, uh, should

00:50:15.270 - 00:50:36.260

look to getting the retirement for teachers changed from the present to, uh, uh, an earlier retirement for teachers so that we can free up some of the older teachers and get some young, uh, innovative teachers on board. Mr. Daniels, also one of the, uh, current problems

00:50:36.260 - 00:50:56.979

are, uh, something that everyone in Kansas City is talking about is the lay, uh, the teachers that have been laid off or given a temporary leave of absence. Just how did this occur? Well, in this November, December last year, the school board had an examination or

00:50:56.979 - 00:51:19.709

an investigation of the conditions of the school district. Uh, this investigation revealed the fact that there was an overstaffing of teachers. It was pointed out at that time about 119 teachers were hired, many of them floating around the classroom with no assignments whatsoever. A number of

00:51:19.709 - 00:51:40.439

these teachers had not been before the board for approval, uh, and those kinds of things. Now, in addition to over hiring 119 or more teachers. We had a decline in enrollment, uh, and then, uh, in addition to that, a dwelling tax base to look at. And

00:51:40.439 - 00:52:02.449

so when we finally got the decline in enrollment figures and we finally looked at the tax base and looked at the budget, we found out that we had to furlough, and that's what we call it, furlough. Uh, some 460-365 teachers, uh, or whatever that figure was,

00:52:02.760 - 00:52:20.429

uh, for the coming year. Now what this really means is that A number of these teachers. I would suspect at least half of them will be employed, but we'll probably pick up a couple of 100 in this 365, I guess that's what it was, and they'll

00:52:20.429 - 00:52:36.770

be employed. But then the rest of them will be furloughed until such time as we get a chance to bring them aboard. Now if you notice, we didn't use the word fined at all, but I understand how a teacher would feel when they're furloughed without pay.

00:52:37.570 - 00:52:55.040

That sounds like fine to anybody, and of course there's no guarantee that all of the teachers will be brought back in, but the reason for it was that we through the years, the last 2 or 3 years or more have been hiring more teachers than we

00:52:55.040 - 00:53:20.429

needed. We had in excess of them. Now we have a teacher. Pupil ratio that we exceeded some 119 or more teachers. In addition to that figure, the enrollment decline produced the need for less. Teachers and then our budget which uh really uh determines all of this

00:53:21.159 - 00:53:40.459

uh showed us that we would have to uh to cut back in the teacher staff and in doing so you might have noticed that we had to uh generate fund by uh uh reducing some administrators as well. Now, uh, the community has always felt. That we

00:53:40.459 - 00:54:01.350

had too many people in the central office, too many administrators. Now the truth of the matter is that no real hard data or information has ever come forth to prove this. However, the acting superintendent Doctor Fields in his recommendation to the board. Took into consideration, I'm

00:54:01.350 - 00:54:21.120

sure the fact that if you would furlough that many teachers, it would make common sense to find a need for less administrators and so he brought that recommendation to the board and the board did approve it. Uh, we also are facing a present problem, uh, what

00:54:21.120 - 00:54:45.429

is known to the public as, uh, buffing or integrating the school system, uh, would you explain how the, uh, board members are trying to achieve something or solve this problem. Well, let me talk just a half a minute about bussing itself, uh. In 18 Uh, 49

00:54:45.429 - 00:55:11.209

or 1840. The first school district was in Massachusetts by state law of Massachusetts at the first uh public school district. And a year after that, they began to uh provide uh transportation school for kids. And in 1919, around 1920 when automobiles became uh a method of

00:55:11.209 - 00:55:34.449

transportation, we got our first buses. And nobody thought anything about it. They welcomed the idea of bussing until 1954 when the Supreme Court said that we should desegregate schools. And then bussing then became a serious matter because he was bussing in for integration, and that's what

00:55:34.449 - 00:55:54.679

the fuss is all about. Now at the present time we are bussing over 11,000 students and have been for a number of years in Kansas City. Without any argument, without any thought, without any protest whatsoever, over 11,000, but when we start talking about bussing for integration,

00:55:55.520 - 00:56:18.169

then it becomes a matter of concern to a large number of people. Now my experience teach me that. Quality education should be the total goal. And that we must certainly think of bussing probably as only a tool toward integration and and I think we kind of

00:56:18.169 - 00:56:37.320

got the thing backwards now. I won't have a whole lot of people maybe to agree with me, but I believe that. We're going to have to upgrade every school in this district. Before we get quality education. How much bussing we do, I think that, uh, quality

00:56:37.320 - 00:56:57.290

education leads to integration rather than integration leading to quality education, I, uh. The emphasis is gonna have to be uh on quality education. OK. How does we uh in Kansas City now have a group or organization that is known as the task force? How are they

00:56:57.290 - 00:57:34.320

to approach the As a community organization. For him, yeah, almost run the tape. The task force is a community organization commissioned by the Board of Education to do two things number 1, to bring to the board recommendations for an interim plan to the desegregation of schools,

00:57:34.750 - 00:57:55.979

and 2, to bring also consideration of a metropolitan plan. Now it's the idea and perhaps conclusion of most people in the district. And really across the nation that metropolitan desegregation of schools is the only way that our school district or any school district in in an

00:57:55.979 - 00:58:15.784

urban setting like ours will ever be able to completely desegregate its schools. However, we are in agreement that we should do as much as we can to integrate our schools under the conditions that we have to to do this, and so that would call for what

00:58:15.784 - 00:58:37.034

I term as and we term as an interim plan. Now the task force is made up of parents, uh, teachers and students, uh, in the various, uh, subdistricts. We've got 6 subdistricts and out of each of these subdistricts there were, uh, x number of people. Elected

00:58:37.034 - 00:58:57.810

by the people in the subdistricts to represent them on the task force and it's about 71 I think or so people on the task force now what they are doing is trying to find out. An effective plan to offer the Board of Education that we will

00:58:57.810 - 00:59:18.250

consider, as I said, an interim plan and in the meantime, bring us recommendations concerning a metropolitan plan. OK, will you name the present school board members? Yes, the present school board members are, uh, James H. Lytton, president of the board, uh, we've got, uh, Samuel Carpenter,

00:59:18.330 - 00:59:43.169

who is vice president of the board. We've got Maurice Dwyer, who is the treasurer. Then we have Ms. Anne Blonde, Mrs. Joy Stark, uh, Mr. Edward Skaggs, and Fletcher Daniels. In addition to that, we've got Ms. Mary Robison. And James Boadonna. OK, uh, can't you say

00:59:43.169 - 01:00:08.729

offhand. For what term, uh, does each board member serve? Yes, uh, at the present time, Skaggs, Daniels, and Dwyer will serve 2 years each. From now, uh, each board member served 4 years. That's the term of office, 4 years, but at this particular point, I have

01:00:08.729 - 01:00:33.949

2 more years. Uh, Uh, Ed Skaggs has 2 more years, and Maurice Dwyer, 2 more years, but Anne Blonde, 2 more years, James Litton, 2 more years. But Mary Robeson, Sam Carpenter, and Barna Donna are beginning a 4-year term. OK, Mr. Daniels, your, uh, own opinion,

01:00:34.489 - 01:00:51.389

uh, in order to get a school system of qua with quality education, uh, do you consider maybe the main factor to, uh, you said you didn't consider the main factor to be just, uh, getting more funds, uh. All in all, what would be the main goal

01:00:51.389 - 01:01:08.669

or how would you get a school system whereas we are receiving quality education, the teachers are satisfied and you have all the officials who are qualified how, what kind of plan? Would you have for something like this? Well, number 1, I believe that we're going to

01:01:08.669 - 01:01:27.719

finally have to arrive at a point where the Kansas City community considers education as the number 1 priority. The total Kansas City community, or the majority of the citizens of the community. They must see the education of children as the first priority, and they must then

01:01:27.719 - 01:01:50.139

understand that they have both rights and responsibilities. They have the right to input into the way that the educational process is put together and work in the community. And they have the responsibility to do what they can to see that proper financing the schools is certainly

01:01:50.139 - 01:02:11.250

made available to er to the schools. Then we talk about such things as accountability. I would suggest that one of the first things must happen. There must be a complete Uh, community confidence in the board of education, that's not true today and perhaps, uh, that hasn't

01:02:11.250 - 01:02:31.719

probably been true ever really, but certainly in the last few years there's a lot of people in the community who doubt the seriousness, doubt the sensitivity of some of the board members as we face issues, and I think this is going to have to be erased.

01:02:31.770 - 01:02:48.560

I think we're gonna have to first. Find a way to have complete confidence in the board of education. There must be accountability and administrative staff where it can be appreciated by not only the board people but by community people as well. We, we're going to have

01:02:48.560 - 01:03:05.899

to have teacher accountability. We're going to have to have teachers who are prepared and who are dedicated, teachers who are turned on, let's say. And then one of the most serious problems that's going to have to be faced head on, and that is the discipline of

01:03:05.899 - 01:03:20.689

students in the school. Now this means that the parents are going to finally have to take charge of the children that they send to our schools. Now one of the things that bother me most, and it's, and, and I hear less talk about than anything else,

01:03:21.050 - 01:03:42.620

and that is the discipline in our schools until we can create. An atmosphere whereby a teacher might teach. Without being attacked by students, not have to spend half her time getting kids quiet in the room, we'll never be able to measure the teacher's work. We'll never

01:03:42.620 - 01:03:57.550

be able to measure her real teaching ability until such time as we create the environment where she can work. And so we're going to have to have those elements all working together for us to have a good school district, and I don't think that's a great

01:03:57.550 - 01:04:14.885

problem. Well, it is a great problem, but I don't think it's an impossible task. But first, the community is going to have to decide that our future depend upon. The educational process and that our future depends on how well we are able to educate not only

01:04:14.885 - 01:04:40.280

the students but even perhaps go into educating adults as well, continuing education for mothers and fathers of the kids that we send to school. Now I'm inclined to believe also that if we were able at this point. To pick students as the private institutions, private schools

01:04:40.280 - 01:04:58.679

are able to do. Certainly we would see a difference in the educational process, uh, uh, right away because a teacher could walk in the room knowing that she had students who were at least well disciplined because in a private school if the kid don't behave, they

01:04:58.679 - 01:05:11.510

send the child home and mama lose that money that she paid for tuition and so mama's on top of that child because she don't want that money wasted. Well, one of the handicaps that we have in public schools is that we have to take the students

01:05:11.510 - 01:05:21.580

where they are, and I have to admit that some of them are in awful bad shape. OK, Mr. Daniels, on behalf of the Black Archive, I would like to thank you.