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Ilis Davis, this is Horace Peterson, 3, executive director of the Black Archives of Mid-America. Today's date is May 22nd. The time is 10:31. Uh, good morning, Mr. Davis. M. You look well, um. We were discussing at the last, um, the last portion of our interview, I

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think we, we got to, uh, the end of World War II, and you're going back into the, uh, law profession here with Dietrich and Davis. What was the name of the firm at that time? The name was Gossett, Ellis, Dietrich and Tyler. Um, the other night

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I saw a documentary. The commanders and uh it was about General MacArthur and which which which brings to mind some other questions that I would like to ask you in regards to your service with General MacArthur during World War II. What type of, uh, well, he

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seemed to be a very arrogant individual in this particular picture that they were showing, very high strung person. How did you see General MacArthur? Oh, I saw him as a, uh, Very intelligent, uh. Um. Very well informed, decisive leader. I think he's one of the most

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intelligent army officers that's ever been in the United States Army. Do you, do you think that his arrogance, uh, as portrayed in the movie, do you think that he was warranted by his position? I didn't see the movie, so I can't, uh, answer that directly. Uh,

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I never thought of him as arrogant. He was a very, Um, Busy leader and, uh, An enormous responsibility and. Not too many resources for a while in the early part of that war, uh. So I, I wouldn't know how to. Answer that. I just didn't think

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everyone was being arrogant. What was his regard to the black soldier at that time? Can you remember? I don't know that, uh, I had any occasion to, uh, Um, Get any reading about his regard for black soldiers. At that time, the army was still segregated, and,

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uh, the troops that were being sent out to the Pacific were in segregated units. Um-hum. And I don't recall reading or hearing him, Comment on it, uh, As such, mhm. All right, back to, I think it was the, your first term on the city council, um,

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um. Can you cite for me any of the legislations that might have had direct impact upon the black community? That, that you perhaps participated in. I don't know about legislation. Uh, the, there were decisions made that I discussed already that affected the black community, the, uh,

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Ending of, uh, segregation in, uh, the municipal auditorium and in music hall. Uh, I know there were, and, uh, I was a party to those decisions that terminated that, uh, Well, I thought it was a sin by the price of the ticket, not by the color

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of his skin. Uh, uh So as city councilman, uh, who, who else supported, you know, let's say at that time, that type of philosophy. Oh, I think, uh, majority of the council did. Uh, Bill Kemp did and, uh, uh, Reed Gentry, uh, is that the, is,

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is Bill Kemp related to the Kemp Kemper family? No, Kemp, K E MP. He was the mayor and he's now deceased. Uh, Reed Gentry, who is a practicing lawyer here, was, uh, I think, uh, Uh, I believe that Walter Scott, who is now dead, was. Uh,

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an advocate of that kind of change and, uh, Well, there were more majority that were so. Mhm. What was the feeling, let's say, uh, of, of public accommodations at that particular time? Total public accommodation. Well, uh, we didn't have any direct discussions that I recall, uh,

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I think there was a. Feeling that, ah, especially the younger members of the council, that that was, uh, that kind of change was certainly coming and was probably overdue. Mhm. But, uh, I don't know that they. I don't recall any ordinance being discussed or brought up

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that had to do directly with public accommodations until. After I was elected mayor in '63. Um-hum. How many terms were you on the city council? 22 terms? Yes, 4, we had a, 13 year term and 14 year term. Uh, I was on from 48 to 51

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and then 51 to 55. And how did you run? I was a member of the Citizens Association. Did you run at large? Yes, I ran at large. You did? Yes. So, therefore, you did gain the support of the black community in your campaign? Yes, and, uh,

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I think it was the first campaign that I campaigned with and for, uh, Uh, Dowd Davis, who was the first, uh, Um Man, I think, and I, I won't say ever because I don't know, but the first one in recent years anyway to the first black

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man to campaign for the city council. Did he win the city council? No, he lost, uh, to, uh. Tom Gavin by a rather, Narrow margin, but he made a substantial and very, uh, Good showing in the thing. The Citizens Association gave him their full backing. Uh,

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who, who, who did you run against in your first election? Do you remember? Uh, I think in the primary, I had, uh, In my first election, I had the endorsement of, Of all the different, uh, groups, and I don't know that I had anybody running against

00:07:07.929 - 00:07:25.619

me. Uh, then there was a write-in candidate. Well, wait a minute, all the different groups, who were the various factors? The Democrats and the Citizens Association were the two principal ones. They were not, they're, they're not synonymous then. No. Uh, They, uh, they both endorsed me.

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Um-hum. In your second election. Uh, I had an opponent and I can't remember who it was, um. Do you believe, I mean, do you think that, well, let me say this. What percentage of the black community vote did you get uh um uh um in your

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election, your first election let's say. Well, I got a very substantial portion of it. Was it the tilt of the scale at any point I had an overwhelming vote in the In the, uh, city because of the way the ticket was set up. I had the

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endorsement of, Both the Democrats and the Citizens Association, so I, it, it was not a, I had one of the highest votes on the city council, if not the highest. I've forgotten exactly what the numbers. All right, uh, running for mayor now, um, give me a

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little bit of your campaign strategy that, that you implemented in the city. Well, I had a very hard primary fight, uh, against, uh, we had, uh, Mayor Bartle was, uh, running again. Dutton Brookfield had filed. Uh, Charlie Schaeffer filed, uh. Um, There was, there were, I

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think, one or two other candidates. I'm trying to think of their names. And, uh, made a pretty hard primary campaign, uh, And, uh, uh, Brooke Field and I were the survivors. We had the two highest votes. And, uh, In the runoff, I campaigned against Dutton Brookfield.

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It was a very narrow election. I think approximately 1500 votes difference between the two of us. What year was this? That was 1963. 1963. What were some of the issues that? Oh, we had some of the issues where the, uh, um. Financing of the city, uh,

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the city was that time poorly financed, uh, there was a lot of political appointments, uh, they hadn't followed the merit system too well. Uh, the, uh. Airport was in very bad shape. There had been no planning or inadequate planning for what we were going to do

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about an airport. Uh, Uh, you're talking about KCI, right? No, KCI, uh, all it was was just a strip up there for the overall base of, uh, Of, uh, TWA. It hadn't been built yet. We, we're talking about municipal airport? Municipal airport and, uh, The, uh,

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Uh, park department was in poor condition because of the lack of funds. Uh, the city would generally run down. Mhm. Those were the main issues that we were talking about. Now, 1963, 3, 1963. What happened in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, I believe was in

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1963. Well, let's see, it was, uh, I thought it was in 64. No, it may have been in '63, late '63 is after I took office and uh. I know it disturbed me a great deal because the, Instability that came right after that or as a

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result of the assassination of a very popular president. There was there was instability within the city structures? Well, you felt the instability all over the United States. Did Wall Wall Street affect Kansas City at that point? I don't recall what I think the market did drop

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for a while. Mhm. What was, uh, did you implement any type of action here in the city at that particular point in regards to riot? Well, I communicated with the police department as I recall uh to uh. Be sure that there was, uh, that I was

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in touch with them in case there should be any, Concern about the stability of the area was the stability of the area uh only that of the black community or what? Oh no, no, I didn't, I don't think the black community played much role in that

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feeling at that time it was just the whole country here was a an unknown man who had had. Uh, some, History of living in Russia, uh, uh, and some communist affiliation that had assassinated the president, You, nobody knew for a while whether there was some vast

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conspiracy or whether there had been a, Some effort at something more than just the assassination of the president or not. It was a very Upsetting thing. Um-hum. Uh, what were, what was your feelings about the various social legislations that, uh, were developed during the Kennedy administration?

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Well, I thought, uh, I thought most of the legislation that came in the Kennedy administration was uh was quite proper and uh was good for the country, good for the country. Now that's speaking strictly uh in in that case I, I, I'm hearing a liberal, a

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liberal Iis Davison, right? I, I don't know. I don't know what I don't, I don't like tags and names. Uh, all right, moving along to, let's say, uh, the, What was your feeling in regards to the life of Martin Luther King at that point? Well, I

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thought the King was uh. An outstanding, uh, leader of people and that he had. Um, He was reflecting, I think, uh, the, Desires and the hopes of, uh, many of the black people in the country, uh. In regard to, Being brought into the mainstream of uh

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life in this in this country and that uh His efforts to do so in a nonviolent way were. Um, I think, uh, Uh, very appropriate, uh, and, uh, uh, that he was, uh, I think he was achieving quite a lot of good things. Um-hum. I noticed

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the certificate, Martin Luther King, uh, Junior Memorial Hospital. What role did you play in that? Oh, I was, uh, uh, I had been Friendly with, uh, Uh, Doctor Williams, who was the leader of the drive to raise money in the Martin Luther King Hospital. He came

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to me one day and, uh, City Hall and was disturbed that after all the efforts that had been put in and all the money and pledges that had been made that the cost of construction had risen so that they were afraid that they couldn't build this

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hospital and. I counseled with him and told him that ah while I regarded the efforts of the black people to Build a hospital as a very desirable thing that Uh, and it's certainly, uh, It wasn't unusual for a, a group in this town of people to,

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uh, build a hospital. In fact, most of the hospitals have been built by either uh some religious group or some ethnic group. The research hospital was originally a, a group of Germans. In fact, for years it was called the German American Hospital, uh, Saint Joseph Hospital

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had been built by the Catholics, uh. Yeah, Baptist hospitals out on Rock Hill had been built by. Uh, generally a Southern Baptist group, uh, and other hospitals around have been built by different groups, some of them ethnic, some religious. And that I felt that that was

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a very Uh worthwhile thing that he was doing and leading the black community into construction of a good hospital facility, but that in each of these other cases, in addition to the money that was provided from a particular religious or ethnic group that the. The funds

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have been raised on a community wide basis, uh, in addition to the the base that had been provided and that I thought that if he was going to be successful, he needed community-wide support and uh I suggested to him that I help him find a. A

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man that would, uh, in the white community that would work with him and challenge the, Business people to uh help raise money to match the funds that the black people had raised. So I call on Mr. Jack Whittaker of Whittaker Cable Company and. He came over

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and met Reverend Williams. They got along very well, and he became, uh, one of the co-chairmen, I think, in the drive and uh helped put on a drive to match the money that the black people had raised. And then after he got a substantial amount of

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contributions, uh. Uh, we had some, uh, monies that, uh, Uh, came through some government, uh, programs, uh, model cities and whatnot, uh, uh, City Hall, and, uh, that was, that was $1 million I think Mr. Jim Threat was helping to run that operation. He, uh. Helped

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to encourage that and, uh, so with the money from model cities, the money from the, uh, white business community and the money that the black people raised, they built Martin Luther King Hospital and uh. That was the reason for my, Uh, being thanked, I think, by

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the hospital group for. That role. What did you, uh, what was your opinion of the march, the march on Washington? Well, I, I think the, the right of petition uh is a basic one in the Constitution and when people feel aggrieved or, or they are not

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uh satisfied with their government response to then. They have a right to petition and assemble and petition their leaders to take action and as long as that's nonviolent, that's uh. Almost part of the American tradition, and I thought that, Ah, King's efforts, which succeeded largely in

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a Nonviolent. Demonstration of desire and hope of the black people to. Uh, achieve a higher degree of Equality in this country, and an extension of their rights. Become part of the economic and social mainstream of the country was, Reasonable thing to do. Do you, do you

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believe that, uh, your opinion, excuse me, of Black people just being tolerated more or less within the overall community? Or do you feel that they are in fact or what is your opinion? That they are in fact a viable portion of the overall community or what?

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Well, I think people are people, uh, and you, you can't, uh, You can't have a, a nation uh successfully with, uh, For somebody who's a second class member of the society, I think, uh, It doesn't work that way. I don't think from our standpoint of our

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Constitution or. Our general religious beliefs and, uh, The concept that, uh, people all pay taxes. Your taxes don't discriminate as to, uh, Color and creeds and so forth that uh so if you look at it from the standpoint of justice or morality or basic constitutional. Guarantees

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that, uh, People have to be treated, uh, Without regard to their, The race and their color and. Religious beliefs. What, how, um, you have to excuse me for jumping around like this a little bit, but how. How did the issue of public accommodations um um initially

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come up for the city council? Well, uh, about that, and I, I'd, I'd have to check all my clippings and history to be accurate, uh. A number of cities and states have been passing public accommodation laws. There was, uh, I think a growing feeling in Kansas

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City that we should have a public accommodations ordinance. Uh, one was introduced, as I recall, in the city council. It was debated at length and had a number of public hearings on it, uh. And a fairly comprehensive ordinance was passed. I think the only restriction that

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I recall in it of any consequence was in the area of uh beauty parlors and barbershops. That seemed to be a terribly sensitive ordinance and I think, I mean, area of concern at that time and uh many people would accept it, except for that one narrow

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area, and it was the judgment of the council that we should go ahead and pass an ordinance and Uh, leave that for future action. Uh, so, ah, ah, politics being a practical thing, we passed that origin, so it then became Challenged by uh uh a lot

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of people and they asked for uh a uh referendum on the ordinance, which meant having a public campaign about it. I took the position that the city council had passed the ordinance that uh it was a fair thing to do and a proper thing to do.

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I appointed a committee to To, uh, Uh, support the ordinance campaign committee. And helped raise some money to. educate the public, and we had a stiff, hard campaign. Uh I think, uh, As I recall, the vote was close. About, uh, I think 1000 to 1500 votes

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in favor of the ordinance, but it did pass and to my knowledge, we are still the only large city in the United States that ever passed such an ordinance on a public vote. And, uh, this was, A credit to the community that it did pass it.

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Were there any direct repercussions at that point there were all kinds of direct repercussions or. All kinds of threats made and, Lots of people felt very strong on both sides of it, and it was a matter of serious concern as a. Within the city and uh

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but I felt it was the right thing to do and. The public sustained us and our, In our vote, one thing that it did do was to help bring out the black vote and the black registration. For the first time. I had a meeting at, Old,

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uh, YMC YMCA with, uh, I remember a lot of the, The ministers of the black community. Earl Holiday was there among others, and I told him at that time that uh. It wasn't enough to want to sustain this ordinance. That if they felt strongly about it,

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which I thought they did, that they'd have to work for it. And the way people run elections was to get people registered and, and get them out to vote. And I pointed out very forcefully. Uh, that the black community had, uh. Not done a good job

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in registering that there were a much lower percentage of blacks registered uh in relation to their numbers than there were whites and that in addition that the blacks were very poor voters that after they got registered they didn't vote and that if they wanted to win

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this, that the only way I knew to win it was to. See to it that the people who were for it got registered and voted. Uh, with all the talk and discussion and, uh. Lecturing, uh, in the world wouldn't do any good if they didn't organize.

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Register the black people and then get them out to vote on election day. Had you felt any other, uh, let's say letdowns as far as the black community was concerned as far as voting before this, prior to this rather to make you have this particular? Yes,

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I think, uh, any of us that had followed the city elections, uh, uh, were fully aware of the fact that, uh, up to that time the black community had done a, a very poor job in, uh. Asserting itself politically issues on any issue that what issue

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that directly influenced the black community though? Well, where you got, uh, there were politicians running that some of them wanted to help blacks and they might be for them, but then they didn't register and vote for them. Anything as dramatic as public accommodation? No, probably we

00:26:17.839 - 00:26:36.229

hadn't had anything that dramatic before, but uh. If you want to assert political power in this country, you get a group together to stand behind a candidate that stands with you and uh. A lot of that seemed to escape. Why, why did they consistently elect you

00:26:36.229 - 00:26:51.810

though? I don't know that they did consistently. Well, that quorum did you, you, you, you said a moment ago, did you did receive the support of the black community as city councilman and as mayor for the first time. What made them come out and vote for

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I Davis? Well, I, I don't know, uh, you probably better ask some of them. All right, uh, moving right along, um, um. The big one. 19, I think it was 68. No, 67, the riot. What happened? Oh, I, that, uh, I think was precipitated by the.

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Unrest that grew out of the Watts riots on the, West coast and, uh, That I can ascribe any single. Thing or sign cause to, To that, it seemed to me that, The riots across the United States and our article from every one of, Dozens that took

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place across there where, uh, A sort of a pent up reaction to, Discrimination that had taken place over, Many years and that there was a, there was a, Just almost an explosion of black people, uh. Emotional explosion. Where they were asserting their, their freedom in this

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kind of. Political Context. Do you think that it was the, uh, that, that, that the torch was the assassination of Martin Luther King? Uh, really? Yes, I think that was, uh, certainly, uh, Certainly a uh a major factor in it, there's no question about that. In

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reading one of your, 11 of the news articles that, uh, that, that, that came out, I, I, I, I think that I'm, I might not be quoting you verbatim, but you said that most of the people that were arrested were either, uh, uh, well, well. Felons

00:29:02.180 - 00:29:26.689

and um uh people with police records and such. Uh well, I think that was true as far as the riot was concerned, but as far as the emotional. Reaction, uh, It was, uh, I'm, I'm, uh, As well able to judge that as members of the black

00:29:26.689 - 00:29:49.800

community, but it seemed to me that the whole. Black community and. Felt an emotional explosion about, Their position in this country. Explain that, can you, because, uh, The only thing that that that people I think equate with the riot is just the burning and the looting.

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Was there other that was the symptom, I think that uh. Came That came with the riot itself, but there was a, I don't know that I can explain it very well. Have you met any of the uh black leaders, black national leadership to this point? Whitney

00:30:18.890 - 00:30:43.319

Young. Oh, I, let's see, yes, I've met Whitney Young and talked with him. I think he came here and spoke at, uh, At, uh, One of the dinners and, um, Let's see. Trying to think, uh, I met Carl Ryan. I don't know exactly what, whether I've

00:30:43.319 - 00:31:01.119

met them before or after or during the this time, but I have. Are you aware of the fact that let's say Marcus Garvey came to Kansas City? No, I'm not. Well, he had, uh, um, let me ask you this, uh. Did you at any time hear

00:31:01.119 - 00:31:30.329

in the speeches of Malcolm X? No. Do you have any impression of him at all? Not at all. Not at all? No, no. Um, um, wow, that leaves me at odds right there. Uh, who do, whom does Ili Davis consider, uh, the Biggest black. Leader of

00:31:30.329 - 00:31:50.339

the 60s then. Oh, I, uh, of course, King was the, the biggest and the most important leader. The people I knew were on the local level and they, they, I had a high regard for him. Uh, the man that probably influenced me most was, uh. Uh,

00:31:50.479 - 00:32:11.869

Doctor DA Holmes from Posao Baptist Church that I met when I first started running for office in 1948, and uh he and I became. Good friends and, uh, he was probably the best spokesman that the black community had here for many years. Uh, No. Do we

00:32:11.869 - 00:32:30.199

have comparable leadership today, do you think? Well, I think we've got some fine leaders here, uh, but he was a powerful, uh, force at that time, uh, And I got to know Lucille Bluford. I knew, uh, Darryl Davis and his wife, Dorothy, uh, And, uh, I

00:32:30.199 - 00:32:52.449

met, uh, later on, I met, uh, uh, Bruce, uh, Watkins and, uh, Leon Jordan, uh, those, those people were good, strong leaders in this community, and they had, they were a powerful force for the, uh, forward movement of the blacks in Kansas City. Uh, a little

00:32:52.449 - 00:33:13.119

bit more serious of a question here, what is your opinion as an attorney, as former mayor of Kansas City, of, uh, property rights over human rights? Well, I don't think there are any human rights without property rights. Can you elaborate on that? I don't think the

00:33:13.119 - 00:33:29.829

two are separable. Uh, they, that makes nice discussion, but it's just like telling a man he's, he's free to organize a church, but if a group of them can't get together and buy a piece of ground, build a church, it. It's not much of a freedom

00:33:29.829 - 00:33:45.800

you have freedom of religion in Russia, but you can't get a group of people together to buy a church and build it and and uh worship in it it doesn't amount to anything. Same way about your house, it's all nice to talk about human rights, but

00:33:45.800 - 00:34:04.349

unless a man can. Buy and build a house if. Our own one to take care of his family. It's a kind of an empty set of promises, and, uh, all this business about, Uh, human rights without any property is a lot of baloney in my opinion,

00:34:05.150 - 00:34:27.310

alright, which leads to the other question what strategies have the city of Kansas City worked out, uh, in regards to such situations as the riots of 1967-19968? Well, I don't know if they had much strategy. Uh, we had no, nothing to base it on, and, Um,

00:34:28.919 - 00:34:54.780

Police department, uh, was, uh, Good department, uh, but they had no experience in handling or coping with, uh, That kind of, um, situation, uh, I think they were quite distressed when, uh, They were faced with it, uh, they were undermanned and. Untrained as far as handling,

00:34:55.830 - 00:35:17.350

Big crowds were concerned and, uh, I think probably the fact that they were undermanned, uh, Uh, led to More feeling of fear than was probably justified and. Well, how do you think Clarence Kelly handled the entire situation? Well, I think he did about as good a

00:35:17.350 - 00:35:40.040

job as he could do under the circumstances, uh. There were several people killed in that riot. That's correct. Right. What was your feeling as mayor? Well, one of great distress about anybody that was killed and that's kind of the situation. Did, was it your order that

00:35:40.040 - 00:36:01.989

brought in the National Guard? Yes, I asked for the, What, what prompted this? Well, I felt that, uh, we didn't have enough manpower to cope with the situation and I had had, I had had previous discussions with, uh, Governor Hearns and. Told him that whenever I

00:36:01.989 - 00:36:16.379

thought there was any need for it, I would ask for the guard and, He told me that when I thought there was a need, he'd send it. And so I, I'm going, Situation became what I thought was more than the police department could control. I asked

00:36:16.379 - 00:36:39.320

for the guard. The riot lasted how long? Two days, one day. Well, let's see, we had, as I recall, and I, I need a, I'm not that good at recalling, uh, I think we had the guard in here twice, once, uh, for about, The actual violence,

00:36:39.360 - 00:36:55.139

I think, was only over a period of about three days, but, uh, And we had one other time where. slightly over a day as I recall. Well, what, what is your feeling that the black, that most of the burning and looting was within the black community

00:36:55.139 - 00:37:18.919

itself? It, it was contained. There was nothing, uh, let's say, uh, detrimental to the, to, to the downtown area, the plaza area. But then still this many black people were killed in the black community or within about property within that particular community. Human rights and property

00:37:18.919 - 00:37:43.409

rights again. Well, I don't see it that way. Uh, It seemed to me that the riots took place where the black people were because of their, Very strong, maybe irrational feeling at the time, but a very strong feeling, and, uh, They were not, it was not

00:37:43.409 - 00:38:09.840

a highly organized thing, obviously. And if you could do it all over again, what would be your, your strategy, do you think? Oh, I, that's, that's pretty difficult to, uh, to, uh, Say, I think, as I, as I said, the one thing that seemed to me

00:38:09.840 - 00:38:40.360

to be. Apparent was that there were, We had an undermanned, uh, police department that was, uh, Under great stress and, uh, Not enough manpower really to, uh, Cope with the situation. I think perhaps if I, I, I don't know, just, uh, how you would prevent it,

00:38:40.459 - 00:39:04.790

uh, These things took place all over the United States in different cities, uh, What, what, what is your overall opinion of, uh, Chief Kelly? Oh, I think Chief Kelly is the, uh, One of the best, uh, Police leaders that exist in the United States, that's my

00:39:04.790 - 00:39:29.129

reaction. Um, Did, did the riots have anything to do with you not, uh, not, Continuing your life, Your political life? No, not at all. What happened? What do you mean what happened? Why did you decide to drop? You you're still a very young man, Davis, you

00:39:29.129 - 00:39:54.000

know. Why did you drop out of politics? Well, I, I think the, I've had, uh, 15 years and, City government and, uh, To It was a very, very demanding period of history, the 8 years I was mayor with uh An awful lot of time away from

00:39:54.000 - 00:40:14.010

my family and, uh, Very little No financial reward. In fact, it was, uh, I borrowed money almost every year to live on during the 8 years I was in. I felt in all fairness to, Them and my law office and, Myself that I had to quit.

00:40:16.260 - 00:40:30.439

Look after my own interests for a while. You would not look at a, a senatorial seat, let's say? No, I have no desire to, I, I mean, I wouldn't. I won't say I wouldn't like to be senator. That would be, that's not a proper statement. Gubernatorial?

00:40:31.159 - 00:40:44.439

No, I have no desire to be governor. But, uh, now now now now now out of all the politicians that I've talked to and talked about to other people, one of the names that always comes up is Illis Davis and the effective job that he did

00:40:44.439 - 00:41:03.929

as mayor of Kansas City, Missouri. Uh, whether or not they, uh, endorse the violence that was that took place during the riots and and and and the city's contribution to that violence or the control of that violence or whatever from the black community and the white

00:41:03.929 - 00:41:24.790

community, and you're saying that you just wanted to just fade out of politics at that point. Well, I think, uh, the, the intensity and the, Demands on your time. The mayor's office when I was there, Were so great that I, I just had no desire to

00:41:24.800 - 00:41:44.820

continue. I had, in addition to all the daily demands, uh, It was a period of so much change, just like the public accommodations ordinance, uh, we had, I averaged being in an election every 120 days for 8 years of one kind or another, either a bond

00:41:44.820 - 00:42:02.100

election, the public accommodation election. Uh, we even had one on, uh, Uh, I think they talked about one on daylight saving time. Uh, it didn't come off, but we had one on, uh, fluoridation in the water. We had them on everything that you could think of

00:42:02.100 - 00:42:17.489

and we passed a huge amount of bonds, and I was never really out of a campaign, and I got, Uh, I, I enjoyed a lot of it, but it, I, I was tired of it. I had enough, and the thought of going out to campaign across

00:42:17.489 - 00:42:31.250

the state of Missouri for a governor's job or a senatorial job just had no appeal to me at all. I had all the campaigning I wanted. I had, uh, some of the moves that you've seen your president, your, you, uh, let's say Mayor Wheeler make. Uh,

00:42:31.830 - 00:42:47.780

in the last couple of months or the last couple of years, have you said back, as I have Davis said, I wouldn't have done that or I wouldn't have handled that in that particular way, you know, if I were mayor, you know. Oh, I don't, uh,

00:42:47.860 - 00:43:04.030

I don't think you think that way. Uh, you know, when I was mayor, uh, there were 3 living ex-mayors or former mayors, and not ex-mayors, former mayors at the time, Mayor Bartle. Mayor Kemp and Mayor Gage. How many of those mayors are still alive now? None

00:43:04.030 - 00:43:19.350

of them. OK. They're all gone. I'm the only living former mayor in the community, and they were all very kind to me. I'm sure that there were things I did that they didn't agree with, but they didn't run around trying to, Say he's doing the right

00:43:19.350 - 00:43:35.340

thing or he's doing the wrong thing. Uh, they didn't, uh, Uh, a few times I called on them, they all helped me. And various items, but they were very restrained in their public and I think private comments both, and I appreciated it. When I got out

00:43:35.340 - 00:43:56.250

of the office, I. I was determined to treat, uh, my successor the same way, and I've tried not to. Comment on his actions publicly or privately, I think. Yeah, it's a terribly difficult job to, Um Try to second guess the, the man over there on the

00:43:56.250 - 00:44:13.330

basis of my experiences, uh, It's not easy because the mayor at any given moment has to make decisions on the basis of what he knows, and oftentimes he knows more than anybody else, so. Uh, I'm, I've tried to, To, uh, Whether I agreed with Mayor Wheeler

00:44:13.330 - 00:44:31.699

or not, I've, I've tried to keep him, uh, away from making comments about his decisions. Does he call on you, in fact? No, he hasn't called on me at all, and, uh, I have a friendly relationship with him, but, uh, I have not, uh, participated in

00:44:31.699 - 00:44:52.669

any of his judgments. So, so he will probably in, in, in all likelihood in the next election become a member of a very exclusive club in Kansas City then, right? Well, I, I don't know that yet. All right. Uh, let's see, uh, The riots, uh, the,

00:44:52.750 - 00:45:14.699

the, the choice of not, not, um, Running again. What are some of the future aspirations of Ila Davis at this particular point? Well, I've, uh, I've had a very heavy load, uh, Private responsibility. I'm the chairman of the board of the two banks. I'm on the

00:45:14.699 - 00:45:33.830

board of the third one. Recently, I became a board member, Large bank holding company in Saint Louis that I have an interest in, In addition, I'm right. Managing partner in this law office, which is still growing rather rapidly and, I'm the director of a number of

00:45:33.830 - 00:45:58.810

other corporations, so, I have, uh, Very substantial amount of, Private responsibility, you know, which, I enjoy and I'm. Having Taking a lot of my time and energy. I have, uh, I always have continued to devote a, Principal amount of time or a substantial amount of time

00:45:58.810 - 00:46:17.030

to the, Matters in the public interest I'm serving as a. Vice president director of the Chamber of Commerce. I've been a vice president of Downtown Inc. I've been a vice president of the Civic council. I've been president of my, uh, Law school foundation at the University

00:46:17.030 - 00:46:31.780

of Missouri Columbia. Uh. Oh, you have a, a law school foundation? Uh, I am, or, uh, the law school foundation down there has a board. And I was president of that board for two years and, uh, I'm on, uh, right now I'm, uh, head of a

00:46:31.780 - 00:46:51.530

fund drive for Rockhurst College. I think I give about, 40, 50% of my time because. Any black involvement in all this involvement anyplace? Well, uh, yes, I just got some letters from some black people this morning. Our law school foundation at the University of Missouri Columbia

00:46:51.530 - 00:47:12.959

was. Uh, active in trying to encourage enrollment in that law school down there by black people. We appropriated $9000 for the last 2 or 3 years to Give to the dean to help with scholarships for generally for black people. We We described the scholarships for disadvantage,

00:47:13.040 - 00:47:37.040

but uh. Oh. We were trying to encourage him to. Bring in some qualified black students for enrollment in the law school down there. What constituted you receiving the uh Leon M. Jordan Memorial Award? Oh, I think they, uh, there was a recognition for the part, the

00:47:37.040 - 00:48:07.169

role I'd had in, uh, helping with the Martin Luther King Hospital and the, uh, Public accommodations ordinance and, uh, Generally encouraging, uh, Hiring policies at City Hall that brought in more black people and, uh, Some things like that that I've helped on. And, all right. To

00:48:07.169 - 00:48:27.949

conclude the interview, give us, uh, It's words of wisdom. For Milas Davis, former mayor of Kansas City, Missouri, uh, to anyone that perhaps hears this tape in the future. Can you do that? Well, I assume you're talking about, uh, Relationships between black people and white people.

00:48:29.760 - 00:49:03.850

Well, I think, uh, if I had a, um, Based on the experience that I've had and the, Observations that I've made, I would hope that. Oh, In the future that there could be, A greater emphasis placed on, Qualifying, uh, young black people. For a role in

00:49:03.850 - 00:49:28.080

the private, The economy of this country. Uh, an awful lot of the progress that's made by people in the United States has been. As a result of the development of human talent, Uh, in the private economy. Uh, and there's no question in my mind that, uh,

00:49:28.379 - 00:49:55.560

blacks over, Past years have been, Restricted in developing their talents that they could sell in this market. They're still restricted. Uh, an example is the very limited number of them that are occupying, Any kind of a, uh, Physician and, Uh, construction trades of this country, the

00:49:55.560 - 00:50:14.719

construction trades have traditionally been a stepping stone for the upward mobility of people, uh, where an untalented person develops a talent in the construction trades and he gets a job and gets paid properly for it, which enables him to do a good job in supporting his

00:50:14.719 - 00:50:38.899

family and become a respected member of the community. Uh, I would hope that, uh, Young blacks would be encouraged in high school and, colleagues to take business courses so that they understood accounting and bookkeeping and uh Business clerical work so that they could be brought into

00:50:38.899 - 00:51:03.949

the mainstream of the business life of, of, uh, the United States. Uh, I would hope that, uh, In our public education that we would again get back to. Handling, uh, More of the technical education and the public schools. Uh, we used to have a lot more

00:51:03.949 - 00:51:20.459

than we have now. Our public schools, it seems to me, have, with all the good things they've done, have, Uh, forgotten that a lot of people are not going on to college, that they're not going to work for the government and the clerical proposition, that they're

00:51:20.459 - 00:51:38.540

not going to become scholars, uh. Uh, that, uh, many people in this country are going to have to work with their hands or they're going to have to, uh, do technical work, uh, for big corporations or small private businesses, and that we need to train. Young

00:51:38.540 - 00:51:54.689

people in those tasks so that they can make They can collect for their talent and their time and to turn young people out on the street, uh, after high school with no saleable talent is a terrible thing. I think it's one of the great problems of

00:51:54.689 - 00:52:13.090

this city and this whole country in, in Europe, uh, In some countries, a young man is not permitted to leave school until, uh, in addition to the reading, writing, and arithmetic and those basic, uh, things that he has to learn, but he has to develop some

00:52:13.090 - 00:52:30.929

skill that he can sell on the open market. And we, we put out young people, women and men both without any salable skill. uh, and it's a terrible thing. I think it, it, uh, doesn't give them a sense of pride. It doesn't, uh, uh, give them

00:52:30.929 - 00:52:51.760

the, the capacity to go into the, uh, job market and collect for talent. Uh, it doesn't help them. Uh, put them in a position to, Become a part of the economic mainstream of this country and develop a family and, uh, Uh, pay for a home. Uh,

00:52:52.590 - 00:53:08.340

uh, this to me is one of the great things that needs to be done and, uh, I'm, I'm not averse to talking about uh the social rights as we've talked about in the public accommodations and the swimming pools and the integration of the schools, all those

00:53:08.340 - 00:53:26.830

things, but, uh, those things. Well, then they're very important, and I would not downgrade them, but the important thing in this country is for a person to be able to make a living. And if you've got to make a living, you've got to be able to

00:53:26.830 - 00:53:46.219

sell your talent, and I don't think that we're putting enough emphasis on that. developing the young people of this country. I think still, we've got an educational system that is not Helping to to develop that talent and put it in the market and that's to me

00:53:46.219 - 00:54:05.010

the the one of the great missing things right now we're we we talk about jobs uh and that's good that's. It's no use, no use having the right to go to a dance if you can't pay for the ticket, uh, uh, but to have a job

00:54:05.010 - 00:54:24.000

means, uh, a saleable, a saleable talent. And I think that we need to start with some of the young people that we've got in this country and uh they're a great wasted asset in many cases because we're not teaching them. How to, how to use their

00:54:24.000 - 00:54:42.820

hands and use their brains and uh uh develop the skills that this kind of a country must have if we're going to make progress. Now, that to me is, uh, One of those. One of the most important things that that uh remains to be done, I,

00:54:42.909 - 00:55:03.449

I'm disappointed with the school system as it exists right now that it fails to encourage young people and actively promote the development of their talent so that they can enter into this mainstream of economic life in this country. We're on the 12th floor of the Dwight

00:55:03.449 - 00:55:25.149

Building, right? 10th floor, 10th floor of the Dwight Building. I'm looking out over a great portion of Kansas City, Missouri right now. Kansas City, Missouri and Kan North Kansas City. Do you, as a human being, Feel that. Black people or minority people, I'm speaking of Mexican

00:55:25.149 - 00:55:46.360

Americans, uh, uh, the Jewish people have already made their, their imprint already. Do you think that there is a part of this industrial system that will eventually integrate. Black people and other minorities into it as a partner. I think there must be, uh, I, I think

00:55:46.360 - 00:56:07.030

that, uh, We have to do what's necessary to draw the black people into this. Um Job market and uh see to it that they do participate in all parts of it now the devil's coming out of me. What has the Dietrich Davis firm done to that

00:56:07.040 - 00:56:28.679

that extent. The only two blacks that I know that have ever applied for a job here were hired. One of them was, uh, a young lady that, uh, We hired as a legal secretary and she was quite satisfactory, and did a good job and we appreciated

00:56:28.679 - 00:56:54.729

her service and she went back to school to become a court reporter. Uh, we had one other young lady come in, uh, Uh, as a Punch card operator. Uh, she had not had much previous experience and, After, Fairly extended period, she found that, uh, She did

00:56:54.729 - 00:57:11.600

not like and uh her services were not uh satisfactory in that job and she took another job. But we're still talking about that same level, the same level that black people have been accepted within that industry that we're looking out the window at right now. Well,

00:57:11.750 - 00:57:27.379

not when you're talking about, uh, punch card operators for computers, which we have down there on the 9th floor and, uh, uh, legal secretaries. Those are talented people. It takes a long, long time to develop those skills, and, uh, I wish there were more of them

00:57:27.379 - 00:57:43.570

right now. Now, you're the chairman of the, you're the chairman of the board on, I think, two banks. Yes, sir. And, um, Another bank out of Saint Louis that you're involved with, uh, uh, what affirmative action programs have you seen implemented by these banks in regards

00:57:43.570 - 00:58:04.010

to black people? Well, the, uh, Baltimore Bank, which I'm the chairman, uh, has had an affirmative action program. We have, uh. Right now, we have, uh, I'm not sure. I, I shouldn't say because I don't know the exact number of black people that have been. hired

00:58:04.010 - 00:58:19.360

down there. Uh, one of them just died, unfortunately last week, uh, a black man who was, uh, We've had with us for a number of years. Uh, we've had a, I think you have a black teller. Um, that came with us a few months ago. We

00:58:19.360 - 00:58:45.370

have a, Uh, on the floor of the bank, uh, To open his account, so, Again, that's, uh, a field that, uh, We find very, very few applicants for either as, uh, To train as an officer or function in. The clerical or technical capacities of the banks.

00:58:45.479 - 00:59:04.149

What about management? There are no blacks in our management. But uh, To my knowledge, we've not had a young black man or a woman, uh, With the educational and other background. Uh, in fact, I don't know the name I've ever applied to become an officer. Uh,

00:59:04.330 - 00:59:24.000

the other bank that I'm a chairman of is a suburban bank, and, uh, Out in Kansas City north in a completely, White area, uh, we've had, uh, Over a period of time, very limited number of black employees. It's hard to get any applications for a job

00:59:24.000 - 00:59:46.080

out in that area. What are, what are some of your hobbies now? No, my hobbies are mostly reading and, Traveling. I've traveled quite a little bit with my wife recently. Well, yes. We've been to Europe last fall and Mexico this winter. Do you plan on going

00:59:46.080 - 00:59:54.679

to China anytime soon? Well, not for quite some time. We'll probably go back to Europe this summer. Thank you very much, Mr. Davis.