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Executive director of the Black Archives of Mid-America. Today I'm interviewing Mr. James Anderson, uh, the owner and entrepreneur, I guess you could say, of the world's smallest museum. Today is October 5th, 1971976. Uh, good morning, Mr. Anderson. Uh, first of all, where were you born, Mr.

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Anderson? Jason, Missouri. What year was that? November 13th, 1907. OK, uh, what's your full name? James William Anderson. James William Anderson, uh, um, um. Where were you born in Kansas City? Uh, uh, 2317 Woodland. Oh yeah. Uh, what was your mother's name? Martha Anderson. Your father's

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name? Will Anderson. OK. And where was Martha Anderson from? From New Orleans, Louisiana. OK. Do you know what year she was born? 1885, 70, 1885. No, wait a minute. 1880, I believe it was. OK. And do you know what her parents' names were? Lucinda Mills is

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a grand my grandmother, but I don't know, and Rice Anderson was my grandfather, but I don't know. Her, her daddy's name. uh, what was your father's name? Will Anderson. And where was he from? Lexington, Missouri. OK. And, uh, what was his mother and father's name? Rice

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Anderson was his mother and, uh. Mahali, I believe was his mother. uh Rice Harrison was his father and Mahali was his mother. Mahalis. OK. What type of, uh, occupation was your father? Oh, you, you a slew, I worked at, uh, uh, Mike to call him a

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porter around the saloon. Mhm. Do you know the name of the saloon? Uh, Dixon, Dixon Hannon Saloon downtown Kansas City. OK, uh, uh, your mother, what was her occupation? Just playing housewife, OK, uh. At the time you, you were 5 years old, did you go, did

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you go to grade school at all? Yeah, I went to grade school, not in Kansas City though. Where did you go to I went to grade school in Leavenworth. OK. Do, do you remember the name of the grade school? Sumner, Sumner, yeah. OK. Uh, can you

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remember perhaps, uh, some of your teachers' names? Oh, Miss Bruce, Miss Johnson, Miss Turner. Miss Martin, Miss Davis, OK, and BK Bruce. OK, and he was the principal. BK Bruce was the principal. OK, uh, What did you have brothers and sisters? One brother and one sister.

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OK. What were their names? RA Anderson and Phyllis Anderson. Are they still alive? Nope. All gone. OK. Um, what was, um, uh, what, what did you do, uh, as a small child to make money, let's say, to make money. Uh-huh. Well, never had Nick too much

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I got us inside. Then the first job I had went to Helmer's manufacturing Company. How old were you then? Oh, about, about 15, I think. OK, so what did you do between the period of all the time you were born, uh, to when you were 15

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years old? Oh. Didn't do too much of anything. Went to school, run Leavenworth, Kansas City, Kansas to what grade. Huh, what grade the 7th, after the 8th grade, really. The 8th grade. Alright. You did not go to high school? No. Alright, why didn't you go to

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high school? Well, I got too slick, you know, I, I thought I was too old or something slick. Why, why did you think you were slick? Well, I, I wanted to leave home. I'm on the job and I wanted to work. Um-hum. And, um, What age

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were you when you finally decided to do this? About 150. Where did you go? Well, I went to When you mean when I first found the first job, uh, first job, I was about, uh, 14 years old when I run off from home, went down to

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a little place called Minor City, Mississippi, worked in an oil mill. Folks like that when they heard I was down there, I had a nice time, did all right myself. Mhm. Uh, uh, what you just left Kansas City and went south? No, there was an employment

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office down at 19th and Grand called Howard. A man come up here from down there in the Mississippi was looking for fellas to go down to work on the. Working this oil mills and working in cotton fields, so me and a couple of friends of mine

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in Leavenworth decided to run off from home and go down there. So we run off. What were, what were your friends' names? Bobby Jackson and Homer Smith. OK, uh. What else were you doing? I mean, what else did you do? Um, what, what was going on?

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Uh, the time of the recession, where were you then? The time of the session? Well, I tell you, in that time of the recession, I was in East Saint Louis, I believe, and I was doing pretty good. How old were you then? Oh, I was in

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my Early teens, I guess about. Between 18 and 20 years old, somewhere around there. Had you married yet? No. Uh, what church did your, you and your family belong to? Well, the folks all went to the Baptist Church. Which one? Uh, my mother went to Morning

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Star. Who was pastor? Uh, Reverend Simmons, I believe it was at that time. No. Yeah, I believe it was Reverend Simmons at that time. Uh, where did your father go? I don't know. He died in 1910. 0 yeah, um. Was your father in the, uh, in

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World War One? No, he did in World War One. Where, where was your family living, uh, let's say, at, at the beginning of World War II? Where World War II? Oh, I was living in Edwardsville in World War II. We're talking about 1939. 0 yeah, uh,

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I was living in Edwardsville. Uh, why were you living in Evansville? Well, I bought a farm out there. Raising a few hogs and chickens and things. How large of a farm did you have? Oh, about 54 and 8/10 acres. Hm, uh, uh, what were the circumstances

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of you buying land? Well, I decided I wanted to do something, didn't have nothing else to do, so I just said my wife asked me what I want to do, and I told her when I got married, she asked me what I want to do, and

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I said, we'll move to the country and raise some hogs and chickens. What year did you get married? Uh, 1940. 1940. OK, and what's your wife's name? Berta Lee Anderson. And where is she from? She's from, uh, Armadale. Armadale, Kansas. Yeah. OK. Burt Wallace was her

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name at that time I married her. Where'd you meet her? I met her all in Kansas City, Kansas. Did you have calls to go to Kansas City, Kansas very often? Cost to go to Kansas City, Kansas Kansas City, Kansas. Oh yeah, I used to live in

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Kansas, lived in Missouri, you live in Kansas. Oh, that's a. Off and on. So many years. Uh, it's hard to tell you how many years exactly. It's just hard to say. But you switch back and forth back and forth, Kansas, Leavenworth, Kansas City, and Kansas City,

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Missouri. And of course, I did a lot of traveling too. What, what, for what reason were you doing all this traveling? Oh, I was just running around from place to place and had There's things that I wanted to go see and go do and would do.

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For instance, what? This is just be going. I'll just put it like that. Did you ever see Jack Johnson? Oh, yeah. Where did you see Jack Johnson? In Chicago? You see him fight? I never seen him fight. No. See him, seen him spar when he got

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out of the, the, uh, the, uh. Uh, when he had the, uh, boxing place up there in Michigan and then seen him also when he first got out of federal prison, out of federal prison what boxing place did he have in Michigan? Yeah, uh, it wasn't

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in Michigan. It was on Michigan in Chicago. Oh, OK, OK. Uh, why were you in Chicago? Why was I in Chicago? I was living there. How long did you live in Chicago? 00, I don't know, 23 years, 34 years, something like that, I guess. Why would

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you, why did you go to Chicago? Well, one thing, just traveling from place to place. Did you take your wife to Chicago with you? No, I didn't have no wife. OK, uh, uh, after marrying, you decided to settle down in Kansas City, Kansas, right? Yeah, well,

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see, that's the kind of a story that just goes like this. I married once. Then come back and who were you married to the first time? Annabelle Dean. How long? Who? Annabelle Dean. All right. How long were you married to her? A couple of years. OK.

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Um, did you have any children? No, no children. Uh, where were you and your wife married? In the church? Yeah. What church was it? Uh, Sunflower Baptist Church, Leavenworth, Kansas. Uh, you and she have been married now how many years? Oh, we had been married. We

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weren't married for 2 years. Well, you and your, your present wife. Oh, my present wife. Uh, we've been, we wasn't married in no church. We was married in Topeka, Kansas. Uh, that, 1820 years ago. Uh, did you ever go in the military? No, never did. Uh,

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uh, what did you participate in any sports or anything when you were a young man? Not particularly, no. What, what, what, what was your sense of involvement? What, what were you involved in? Oh, running businesses. What this business. What, what were you into? OK, selling anything

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I could sell. Uh, were you a very successful farmer? No, not, not too much of a farmer. I was never much of a farmer. Well, what happened? Didn't know nothing about farming. Mhm. Did you make any money at it? Not that I know of. Uh, how

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long have you been at this location? What, what, what is this location first of all? This location here is 2310 B. How long have you been here? I've been here 12 years. 12 years. Where did you live prior to this? I lived in Edwardsville and run

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the Anderson's Chicken Shack. Chicken, cooking chicken, yeah, fried chicken, cold beer, chili, re fried potatoes and things like that. How long were you there? 25 years. Mhm. How did you get to Edwardsville? How do you get there, how, how did you get there? Well, that's where

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I was bought farm and that. Decided I would open this chicken shack up. What, what your, your first wife died, yeah, childbirth. Oh yeah, not my 1st and 2nd 1. You've been married how many times? 30, excuse me. What was your second wife's name? That's what

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I told you, Bertie Lee. What was the first one's name? Annabelle Dean. All right. And this one's named Emma, Emma Oakley, OK, uh. How successful was your, your, your chicken place and, and quite successful, quite successful. Why did you leave it? Well, I guess you just

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have to say political, politics. That's a story you can't always say because you know when you're on the wrong side of the fence, you're on the wrong side and you're on the right side, you're on the right side. How did you get on the wrong side

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of the fence? Not voting for the right people. Who are the right people? Well, that's the Republican Party and Democrat Party mixed up there, and you got to know just which party is going to win to stay in. Which one, which one are you a member

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of? Well, I ain't gonna involved that cause I'm one thing on one side and one thing on the corner where I'm at. Uh, uh, then you actually think that politics are the reason why you lost your business. Yeah. No, OK, uh. Are you a politic, are

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you very involved in politics? OK, uh, uh. How did you happen to get into the antique business? Well, one day I sold a guy something for very few dollars, a couple of dollars. Next day I seen the same item that I solded him for $40. The

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next day it was gone. So then I kind of thought, oh well, I'm I'm damn fool, I'm gonna start something myself and start doing it myself. What happened? Well, I've been very successful in it. Been buying and selling and trading, and I'm getting, I'm getting like

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it and something I like and something I'm doing, and then I finally decided after I went so long in it and then got old enough to retire and one thing or another. And saved some and throw some away, which I always wanted to do something. Different

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than anybody else, I decided to open up a museum, so I opened this free museum and, uh, I don't know. There's something I want to do and something I enjoy doing. Have you been satisfied with it? Very much, not making no money out of it, but

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I don't care about that. It's just something for the youngsters to see. Something that I like to do and I'm the only one I know of who's got one. It's got a free black museum. Uh, how long have you been in, in the, in, in the

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museum then? Oh this museum, I think it was in May, I believe, of uh 1975. What type of people have you had visits from all places in the parts of the country and all types. All types. I couldn't begin to tell you what type of people,

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black, white, and everything else, all types. What are some of the things that you would like to have in your museum? Well, as small as it is, there isn't too much more I can get in. But Is there anything that pertains back old and what I

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would like to have is a lot more history on Kansas City people, Kansas City, Missouri and Kansas City, Kansas, or I say Kansas City and surrounding territory. Of both Missouri and Kansas. Mhm. Uh, uh, um, what, what's, what, what do you think your most prized possession

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in that museum is right now? My most pro projection to what? It's in your museum now. Buddy, I'm gonna tell you the truth. It's everything I am proud of in there because I have an awful lot of things of Negroes that I'm proud of, such as

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the old people that were around Kansas City. I can't name them all, but I have blacksmith's shop, and I just practically anything in there I'm really proud of. Only thing I can say I wished I had a lot more history on Negroes around Kansas City and

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a lot more things, and a lot bigger place, really. Mhm Uh, uh, have. You know, what do you, what, what have you done, you know, that you think would place you in that museum? What have I done? What would you say would be your greatest accomplishment

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in life today? Well, spending money. I spent a lot of money trying to get this museum together and buying things and putting them in there and sometimes I'd sell something and get something back and then go place something else and buy something else, save it back

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or put some of it in the museum. I couldn't begin to tell you how much it got in there because it's just something that You go from time to time and every time you run across something that's worthwhile and you figure it's nice for your museum

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and you get these thoughts 345 years ahead of time. You can't just jump up and think it all today. What, what, what would you say has been the reaction, uh, of whites in regards to your museum? Much more better than the Negroes because the reason why

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I say that. Is that I and my Negro leaders, we have some what we call Negro leaders. But as far as the Negro leaders, they haven't none of them been for it. Now I've had white folks come to me, white people come to me, and some

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of them are pretty big people. And they have tried to tell me and wanted me to do things that I wouldn't exactly do because I wasn't, I was thinking I wanted for the Negroes, but I'm just, uh, Kind of going along with it myself. Someday I

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intend to do something with, give it away or something, maybe some organization will appreciate it or something, but. If it is, I'm just holding on. Uh, what, what, what, what was your reaction to the sixties, Mr. Anderson? I'm talking about the riots, uh, the That Peterson

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was a little something that uh I don't know too much about. The only thing that I could see about it is we burnt what they said, burn, baby, burn. Well, they burned everything up down in this neigh in the Negro neighborhood and all our Negro neighborhoods,

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but it didn't hurt nobody but us, cause we now have to go ever so far. To get things and things that was here, it's all scattered around. I don't know what did any, in fact, I've seen uh some changes, some, a lot of changes, in fact,

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what's been, what's been the greatest change that you've witnessed? Well, segregation's been the greatest change I've seen because I know the time you couldn't go downtown, eat a sandwich and nothing else. And, uh, in a, in a public place. I've seen all those things change. But

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still, I don't know. I, I'm just not going to quote on that too much because I don't know what the boys that baby burn was right or wrong. What do you, do you feel, do you feel much more relaxed within this society? Oh, good God, you

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got to feel more relaxed when you can go any place you want to go and precipitate in any practically everything. Um-hum. You know, like they said, they wanted some chocolate and, so some chocolate and everything now. What did you think when um when John F. Kennedy

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was assassinated? Be who? Kennedy was killed. Kennedy was killed. Well, Yeah, I don't care what you do, right or wrong, there's always somebody gonna be against you. And you never had a president up there that I know of, that wasn't threatened or got killed or something,

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but they was all threatened because somebody wasn't gonna please. What about uh Martin Luther King? Well, As all anytime you can be big enough to talk and lead people. I don't care what you're a king or president or a preacher or whatever you are, you're gonna

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have some enemies, because you may be doing something, you're doing something that somebody don't want you to do. So Martin, I think Martin Luther King is just like anybody else. He was a man. And Kennedy was a man, but you got to realize that all them

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big men, somebody wants to assassinate a white, black, green, grizzly, or gray. There's gonna be something against him. Uh, do you think, you know, there's been a lot of talk about it being a conspiracy. That's a possibility. When you know too much or you're getting on

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somebody else's toes or territory. It's a possibility, yeah, it's a great possibility. You don't want something to happen. Maybe you're a big leader, now I'm a big leader and you want to go your way and I wanted to go mine. Well, if I got, if I'm

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one of them guys out there and don't want you on my toes, I'll put my gang up to get you. Money will do anything, you know that. What did you, what did you, what did you think of Richard Nixon? Richard Nixon, I think Richard Nixon did

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everything that anybody else did. The only deal was he got caught. You get caught, you ain't bad. If you don't get caught, everything's lovely. What about Spiro Agnew? Same thing. Who? Spiro Agnew? Well, he was one too. He got, he, yeah, all them big guys up

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there together. They say Democrat and Republican and this, that and the other, but I don't care what all of them want money. And all of them doing what they want to do, so, therefore, that's it. Uh, uh. What year was your daughter born? My daddy, my

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daughter, she's born, uh, uh, August 21st, 1942. All right, is that the only child you have? The onlyest child I have, and that's by your present wife. No, by the wife that passed. She my wife passed at childbirth. The baby was born at 5:30, and the

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wife passed at 5:57. What's your, what's your daughter's name? Berta Lee Tatum now OK uh. If, if, if she came up to you and said to you, um, um, What, what, what You know, what, what is your reaction to where black people are today? Where black

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people are today, black people today are going right on to the top. I don't know whether I'll be here to see it, but I think they're going right on to the top. I have a wonderful son-in-law. And I know he's making over $1000 a month and

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I wouldn't make $1000 didn't hardly make $1000 a year. When I was coming up, that would have been big money almost. Were you, were you a hustler or anything? Oh yes, what did you hustle? Well, that now that that's something I ain't gonna tell you that.

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Come on, tell her. No, no, no, we'll just leave that out of the conversation. Uh, I know, yeah, I was a card player. Yeah, I could play cards pretty good. Where did you hang out at? In Kansas City, Kansas City, 12th Street, Independence Avenue, 18th Street.

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What clubs on 12th Street? Oh, anywhere from George Stone's on up. So there's too many of them to name me George Stone, Yellow Front, and all of them. I hung around all of them. You see Charlie Parker. Charlie Parker. Did I see him? Sure, I've seen

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him, seen all the musicians. Who else did you see? Oh man, you get back here and ask me about all them musicians. All of them lived up there in floor apartments and all around here do. I mean, uh, uh, uh, such as Benny Moton and George

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Lee and. Um, and it's just too many of them to take. I know all, I know every one of them at one time. Just can't think that far back. Did you ever go see, uh, Joe Louis? No, never did see Joe Louis. Did you, did you

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know Bubba Clys at all? Oh yes, I know of him. I didn't know him personally, but I know of him. Who, who was your best buddy back then? My best buddy. My best buddy was a boy named Purcell Anderson. I guess that's about, of course, now,

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how so long ago were you speaking about, about, uh, when you saying 1940s. 0, 1940. Oh, I believe it's been about, uh, Archie Adams, I guess. Uh, tell me this, uh, uh, where were you at the, uh, the day that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor? Out

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in Edwardsville. How did that affect you? How did it affect me? Well, let's see. It's just one of them things that everything started and, Didn't know what was going to happen, but I always felt that we'd win, so I at least I did. Why didn't you

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join? Huh? Why didn't you join? Why didn't I join? Well, I guess I like everything else, scare scare. I didn't need to go. I had a reason for not going and I just didn't, I didn't want to go, I guess. I don't know. One of them

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things I thought I could do better here and, Stayed here. What about, uh, did you know McKinley Neal? Who McKinley Neal? Neil Mc uh McKinley Neal, state representative. Yo, sure, sure, Cardinal O'Neal, drover up at uh 40, 25th and B, I mean 25th in Brooklyn. What

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type of a person does he strike you as? Hi, fine fellow you ever met. He had his ways, but he's fine the fellas I ever met. What kind of ways did he have? Just, just, yeah, well, he's just like anybody else, and you got something. You

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act guard him. You don't, uh, be nasty to nobody, but as far as Neil's concerned, I never seen nothing wrong with Neil. He did what he wanted to do, and that was his business. What about DA Holmes? DA Holmes, Reverend Holmes was a fellow I talked

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with many time. I got Reverend Holmes's voice on tape myself, and Reverend Holmes wasn't nothing wrong with him because everybody wants to feather their own nest. You go out and do something, you ain't gonna take care of everybody else and leave your nest bare. Well, how,

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how did he stuff his, how did he stuff his mattress? How did Reverend Holmes do. Reverend Holmes was a great Negro leader in Kansas City. He'd go downtown and the white people and things that was pushed, was great, but respect him, man. He was well respected.

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You couldn't get a man any highly respected than Reverend Holmes. Did he make money? Sure, he made money. How did he make money? Well, it's like anything else, he wasn't going to do everything for the Vietnam Crove people and not get nothing for sale. Self-preservation know

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for nature. She didn't tell me how he was making his money. Who Reverend Holmes? Well, like all the other preachers. And preaching and gifts and I don't know, just various reasons they just made money and when he put something over a big problem or something, probably

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with some excess money and he got his end too and he probably is the best paid man on the deal. Uh, what type of person was Tom Pendergast? Tim Pendergast. Tom Pendergast was a fellow that If people that needed Tom Pendergast, all they had to do

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was go save Tom and needs something, and he was a man that tried to take care of poor and everybody else just like I say about DA home. He was a man that if don't be for a man like Tom Pendergast. He put out money and

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he made money. He made feathered his own nest, but he built, was the cause of them building city hall and everything else. They had a great machine down there. But the poor people lived as well as the rich, and he'd take care of them all. Did

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you do any work, uh, on City hall or anything like that? No, sir. I did not do no work nowhere too much. Why? Well, I had other ways. I wanted everybody to have a job with me and I didn't want one. How'd you make your money?

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Well, that was, that was my business. I ain't gonna tell you that. OK, um, um, what did you think of, uh, who, who's the best mayor that you've seen? Well, as far as the mayor's concerned, I don't know it all of them are the same to

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me because I didn't have, uh, too much politics here in Missouri and Kansas either. I only time I had politics is was with a few sheriffs and commissioners and things. Like that, of course some fellas that knew me, they just took care of me and let

00:29:14.069 - 00:29:29.300

me go and do what I wanted to do. I was, uh, who's done more for black people than anybody else, you think? If you can name one person. Name one person done more for blacks than anybody else. You mean a white person had done more for

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blacks? Well, now you asked me about a fella, and I, I don't say he's done more now. Don't get me wrong, but I now getting back to that theory, I don't know who's done more for him, but I just say Tom Pendergast done as much for

00:29:43.780 - 00:30:00.089

him as anybody. I kind of think. What about the Citizens Association? Citizens Association, I'm not gonna knock cause I know nothing about it. I don't feel, I'm not feeling way to with any kind of way, and I don't know, in in 1940, what was, what was

00:30:00.089 - 00:30:17.020

legalized crime like? I mean, uh, uh, uh, what was the crime like in Kansas City? Well, in 1940, it was nothing like it is of today. I'll tell you that, because it looked like everybody in them days went out for a good time. And there was

00:30:17.020 - 00:30:33.589

no, it was, there was always some killing. You can always say there was some killing and things like any of it. Huh? You ever see any killing? Oh, yes, I've seen three killings, not no great number of them. I've seen for three killings. Uh, what, um,

00:30:34.810 - 00:30:54.369

What type of uh of of of of of. Crime or activities like that, did you actually see though? Did you actually see or witness without, uh, without putting your, putting your own neck? Well, without putting my own neck out, I'll tell you. Just like this. You

00:30:54.369 - 00:31:10.140

run a, I'll say you run a sporting house. If you knew what to do. What's a sporting house? What is a sporting house? Well, uh, yeah, that's where they have the ladies to see men and things like that. And if you run a house and sold

00:31:10.140 - 00:31:22.800

liquor, whatever you did to gamble, whatever you did, if you knew the right part to see, you'd go down and tell the man what you was doing this, that and the other. As long as you're doing a little gentleman and he knows the thing's going to

00:31:22.800 - 00:31:40.739

happen like anybody else, he wouldn't bother you too much as long as you did hardly, but you didn't have a bunch of shooting and killings and All of that crap, air crap pending. Now, when you said organized crime, that's a different thing. That's where you've got

00:31:40.739 - 00:31:54.890

a good thing to do something and, And the big shot gangsters of this, that and the other one to cut in on it. Now I don't know nothing about organized crime, but I never was any. Did you ever see any of the big gangsters? Oh, I've

00:31:54.890 - 00:32:11.760

seen a few of them, Al Capone and a few of them, but I seen them, but I didn't know them personally. I've seen them. Where'd you see Al Capone? In Chicago. Uh, there in Cicero, I've seen quite a few of them, and I worked at a

00:32:11.760 - 00:32:27.219

garage one time where it's at was when they had the Saint Valentine's massacre. I was working at that garage when that happened in Chicago. Where were you? In Chicago, working at the garage. But you just wasn't there that day or something? No, it happened, it happened

00:32:27.219 - 00:32:43.089

and I wasn't there that time. It happened, but, Uh, I, uh, Had to come in at night. You saw all that blood and stuff there? Oh, you could see that blood there for a long time. It, it gave it time to get damp. Yeah, you could

00:32:43.089 - 00:32:57.410

see it. I saw quite a few of the boys around there, sisters, uh, I saw them around to see Saint Louis. I worked a couple of garages, had them gangsters around them pretty much. Um-hum. What kind of car did you have? Oh, I had an old

00:32:57.410 - 00:33:18.369

Willis Knight B70 and I had a, uh, uh, uh, Well, in the first, I got, uh, 32 V8, that was later on. I had old Model T Ford and Model A. I had all kinds of cars. What was the first one you had? Model T Ford.

00:33:19.540 - 00:33:36.349

Is it new? No. What's the newest car, uh, did you have? The Newest car I had was a, was a 32 V8, 1932 V8. I bought one of the 1st 1932 V8s. And then, of course, I bought a lot of new Pontiacs and things, uh, station

00:33:36.349 - 00:33:56.520

wagons and things. Did you, did you ever, did, were you ever on commodities? No. Never was. Never was. Um, uh, why didn't you ever go back to school? Why? Well, But you see back in them days you didn't really have to know a whole lot. Mother

00:33:56.520 - 00:34:10.919

wit was greater than a, a lot of times. You take your old mother wit and just go along with it, and you could get along. Um-hum. Of course now today, you got to be educated to get along. And I agree with all my kids need the

00:34:11.179 - 00:34:26.590

education and everything else. Um-hum. But in them days, you didn't have to be really highly educated to get along. Um-hum. Just depended upon what kind of hustler you was. How, what kind of a hustle were you in? Well, I always thought it's pretty good. I don't

00:34:26.590 - 00:34:45.089

know. I did. But you always ate, huh? I always ate and didn't have to get on no bread line, didn't have to get on no, Supremes and no modities or nothing like that. What was, uh, Kansas City like in 19, 35 in this particular area. 35,

00:34:45.138 - 00:35:03.198

I'd say, Oh, and 35, it wasn't. Wasn't too bad. It was a pretty good little town. Whiskey done come back and people was pretty good. Pretty, it was really a fair town. Did you ever, did you ever bootleg? Yeah. What did you bootleg? Anything they bootlegged

00:35:03.198 - 00:35:18.429

was bootleg. Uh-huh. Well, when I was bootlegged, whiskey and beer. I'll say that because you didn't fool, no, I didn't fool no. What was marijuana like back then? I don't know nothing about it, didn't know nothing about no marijuana. I heard reefers, but I didn't even

00:35:18.429 - 00:35:32.810

know what it was until this year lately. I, well, not, not real lately, but, Years ago we used to see that old hemp we called hemp. I didn't know we didn't know it was good for nothing to make rope powder. And so I don't know nothing

00:35:32.810 - 00:35:49.010

about that, that dumb stuff. In fact, I never fool with no dope. Did you ever see Billie Holiday? No, not that I know of. Uh, what about Duke Ellington? Uh, I've seen Duke, yeah, I've seen Duke several times, but man, that's, Now I'll match all them

00:35:49.010 - 00:36:09.429

gods have seen, but hey, trying to think back when and when Nat Turner. Who, Nat Turner? Not Nat Turner, um, excuse me, Marcus Garvey. Marcus Garvey? I don't remember ever seeing him personally. Oh, did you ever go to New York? Yeah, I lived in. New York.

00:36:09.629 - 00:36:22.159

How long did you live in. New York? Oh, I don't know, a year or so, I guess. How, how did you like New York? Well, it's a pretty good town as far as I can say. I lived there, I was there when they built the, uh,

00:36:22.350 - 00:36:43.830

YMCA on 135th and I started out living on 100 and, Uh, I first lived on 134th Street West, east, I believe. Then I went to 134th West. Why did you go to New York? Well, when you're traveling, buddy, you go everywhere. You don't care where you're

00:36:43.830 - 00:37:02.449

going. You go to New York and all, and I lived in every, I sat like this, that, that, uh, I lived in every major city from, New York to Seattle, Washington, and approximately from, uh, uh, Canada to Mexico, to Gulf of Mexico. You have lived in

00:37:02.459 - 00:37:23.520

in Canada before? Yeah. Well, why did you go to Canada? Just traveling. Just traveling. Traveling, you go your money in Canada? I wasn't trying. What's the largest amount of money you ever made at one time, man? Well, now, That's something I can't remember and I can't

00:37:23.520 - 00:37:38.389

tell you because I don't know, man, I've made a lot of money and I throwed away a lot of money and I ain't got none. Now, I can tell you that. Uh, I'm trying to think what else I got to ask you. You've got a, you've

00:37:38.389 - 00:38:06.070

got a very interesting life. Uh, Let me think. Did you ever know Doctor Bryan, Gerard Bryant? Roy Brown. Gerard Bryant, Doctor Brown. Doctor Brown? I know of Doctor Brown. I don't know too much about him. I know of, Did you, did you, uh, uh, were you

00:38:06.070 - 00:38:19.610

here when they built Lincoln High School? Lincoln High School? Yeah, I was somewhere around there. I don't know whether I was here, now, that's been back a little while ago. I don't know whether I was here in Kansas City or not. Did you ever think black

00:38:19.610 - 00:38:38.649

people was going to be past Twenty-seventh Street? Oh yes, yeah, yeah. People, colored people has been past Twenty-seventh Street. Now don't get the wrong idea. Black people have been past Twenty-seventh Street for years and years, way before I can remember. But there were certain locations. See,

00:38:38.689 - 00:38:54.729

that's something a lot of people had. Black people lived here and black people lived there. But black people lived all over Kansas City at all times. The only still was, they had a certain community, that wasn't. Now you even take way out south there, there were

00:38:54.729 - 00:39:12.169

some black people out there. And you take way out here in, uh, uh, uh, the west, uh, east side, there's black people over there, West side. So people, they, they, black people wasn't just all up in one clutter together. Black people lived all over Kansas City.

00:39:12.370 - 00:39:27.699

Um-hum. Don't let nobody tell you that black people didn't live all over Kansas City. Of course, now you didn't find them living out in the country club or up in, uh, out hunting this, that and the other, unless they was living on the, Janitor service or

00:39:27.699 - 00:39:45.459

something like that, but they had little neighborhoods and a little everywhere. Did you ever do that kind of work? Who? Me? janitor work? Sure. For who? OD Marsh, Borough Paper Company, all Gallup Map and Supply Company, all had a gang of them out there. Did you

00:39:45.459 - 00:40:00.879

ever meet Colonel Sweeney? Colonel Sweeney? Sweeney, oh no, yeah, but I never, I met, I know him well. I know Sweeney well. I think you know he's a very fine fellow. Swain Sweeney is a very fine fellow. Him and a great friend of mine is great

00:40:00.879 - 00:40:17.899

friends, him and JD Williams. Did you know him when you were coming up? No, I didn't know Sweeney when I was coming. Who, who do, who, who, who around the area that, that's alive now? That, uh, you knew when you was coming up. It's alive now,

00:40:18.020 - 00:40:49.399

that I knew when I was coming up. That I might know of. Let's see, let's see, let's see. But, you know, Well, you take uh Bill Saunders. And Ford McCombs. And, uh, The Bellboys. Buddy, I'm going to tell you the truth, there isn't too many. Charlie

00:40:49.399 - 00:41:05.030

Goodwin There isn't too many left around here. I'm just going to tell you the truth. Most of all of them dead. What church do you go to now? Do I? The first one I go to, when I go, I don't go, don't personally have any of

00:41:05.030 - 00:41:21.189

them in charge, but I go to any of them when I do go. Why don't you have a choice? Why don't I have a church? Church, uh-huh. Yeah, because, Well, I always felt you're supposed to be a Christian to have, uh, well, in fact, now that

00:41:21.189 - 00:41:36.649

you say Christian, that's a great thing. I just never felt that I was going to live the right life so far, to say I was a church member. Why not? I got, maybe I got church and you mixed up a little bit. Maybe you just belong

00:41:36.649 - 00:41:51.969

to church, say you got your name on the book, but I believe you belong to church to be a Christian. Are you a Christian? Not my belief about it. What's your belief? My belief. Christians got certain angles, certain things he's supposed to do. Of course, maybe

00:41:51.969 - 00:42:04.989

in my heart I'm more Christian than a lot of people it is Christians, but. I, if I want to drink whiskey, I'd go get me a drink of whiskey, and I don't have to worry about the preacher nobody else see. And I'm not fooling. I'm not

00:42:04.989 - 00:42:17.120

hiding from him, I'm not hiding from God. And if I was going to be a Christian, I think I'd be a Christian all the way. If I want to do this, whatever I want to do. A lot of things. I don't know what Christianity is, but.

00:42:18.479 - 00:42:34.000

Who, has there ever been a preacher that has almost had you in his congregation? None that I know of. I went to, Church, I like going to church. I like church. There's nothing wrong with church. I love church and like preachers and everything else. It wasn't,

00:42:34.449 - 00:42:50.199

but. I don't believe in going to church one minute and coming home cussing and raising heck, and the next minute using God's name in vain and getting drunk on whiskey and this, that and the other, I still don't believe in if you're gonna drink whiskey, trying

00:42:50.199 - 00:43:08.199

to see the preacher coming to the door and run and hide with your whiskey, and you ain't hiding from the preacher. You're hiding from the preacher, but you ain't hiding from God. So, why, why hide it? Uh, did you ever, uh, uh, uh, see, uh, go

00:43:08.199 - 00:43:23.479

to Reverend Williams' church? A what? Reverend Williams' church. You ever go there? Yeah. Which church, I mean, which church would you belong, you think, if you was going to belong to one? Well, I don't know, I kind of think if I was really going to join

00:43:23.479 - 00:43:42.229

church, I like, uh, where my mother used to belong, and that was at, uh, Morningstar Baptist Church. Um-hum. I just think that would be the church I desire because just under, that's only because my mother belonged there. But now as far as church, I don't believe,

00:43:42.270 - 00:44:00.870

I believe in belong to any church you want to belong to. Oh, who do you think is gonna win the next presidential election? Well, we kind of looks, looks like Jimmy Carter. Course, I don't know anything about either one of them. Of course, I know, That,

00:44:00.949 - 00:44:20.139

uh, Board has been in there a little bit, and he ain't had a chance to do everything he can do. Jimmy Carter ain't going to do everything he said he's going to do, but, I don't know. The President, fact, the president, something don't do too much

00:44:20.139 - 00:44:37.120

for me, no, huh? What do you, what do you think about, uh, abortions? Abortion? Well, that's something that, I don't know too much about either. If you want to have a woman's, well, that's a woman's job to have the baby. If she wants it, she should

00:44:37.120 - 00:44:50.310

have it. If she don't want it, I think she can get it because they're bringing something here you don't want. Mhm. What do you think about divorce? Divorce? Well, it ought to be just as cheap to get a divorce as it is to get a hold

00:44:50.310 - 00:45:06.229

of one. It it costs so much to get rid of one, it's cost, and nothing to get a hold of. So, so what would you, uh, uh, uh, uh, do you plan on being married from, from, from here on out? Might as well stay married. I

00:45:06.229 - 00:45:18.780

got to stay married because I'm too old to get anything else if I didn't have to. Oh. How old are you now? 69. 69. What are you, what, what are you going to do on your 70th birthday? What am I going to do? Same thing I

00:45:18.780 - 00:45:36.830

do every day. What's that? Probably drink me a beer too. Some bourbon or something. No, I don't drink no bourbon. Bring me some beer. Uh, uh, what, what, what. I buy some bourbon, but I don't drink them. What do you, what do you attribute, uh, you

00:45:36.830 - 00:45:52.350

know, your vitality to? It's 69. What do I like to do? Is there anything that comes up good. No, no, no, no. Well, you're still a very, you still get around real good. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ain't nothing the matter with me. What do you

00:45:52.350 - 00:46:07.120

attribute that to? Huh? How do you do it? How do I do it? Just get up and go on. I'd like to thank you for this interview, Mr. Anderson. Thank you for this interview. Uh, um,