00:00:00.790 - 00:00:27.079

Uh, interviewing for the Black Archives of Mid-America. The date is August 21, 1976. I'm interviewing Joanne Collins at her campaign headquarters at 21st and Prospect. OK, uh, Mrs. Collins, when and where were you born? I was born Joanne Collins, uh, Joanne Mitchell, and Marcella Mitchell in

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Kansas City. Kansas, uh, Rosedale area. I was really born in Kansas City, Missouri, but by the time my mother received her medical attention, I think she had been transferred to, uh, my grandmother's home in Kansas City, Kansas, so, um. I was raised in the Rosedale area

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in the 4021 mini top of the hill as we expressed it then in 1935, August 29th. Went to uh schools in the neighborhood down the bottom of the hill, over the ravine in Adds grade school. OK, where was, where is Adds Grade school now? Addicks Grade

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School is not anymore, but the building in which it was housed at that time was the Southwest Boulevard and Seminary. Southwest Boulevard and Seminary. OK, so you're talking about a different Alex Gray than the one in Kansas Kansas City, Kansas in the Rosedale area. Uh-huh. OK.

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OK, I'm the first of 3 children. Um, my parents, Mr. and Mrs. William Mitchell, mother Mary Frances Mitchell, um, had been married for a very brief time. And I was born and uh my mother was not working and my father was a laborer working as a

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hog carrier in uh South Park in Argentine area. My father was a member of the Mitchell McCaleb family that migrated to this area from Holiday, Kansas and primarily landed in the uh South Park, Marion, Kansas, Argentine Rosedale area. Married into the McCalleb family and those two

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families, uh, with about 12 to 16 children each, um. branched out to various parts of the Greater Kansas City area. OK, uh, let me understand a few things. Um, Born in 1935, so that makes. 4040 years old now. OK, um. How many brothers and sisters did

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you have? I have two sisters. Um, the sister next to me is, uh, 9 years younger than I am, and the second sister, my second sister is 14 years younger than I am. And you're the oldest in your family, right? OK. Um Now again, What, uh,

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elementary school did you go to? I went to Adams Grade School in Kansas City, Kansas in Rosedale area. OK. Um, what's your education at that? Grade school, the kind of general education or So what was like OK, well, my mother was active in the school system

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with the Parent Teachers Association, as were most parents in that area. Uh, Education in my family was a high priority, particularly with my mother, and um. So the education that we received, it was of course at that point in time, a segregated school system and uh

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the educators were dedicated and we had no problems in uh um seeing to the disciplines, disciplinary problems that would have occurred under ordinary circumstances were dealt with very easily. My mother took me to school and informed, introduced herself to the teacher, informed her that I was

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that I was there to learn and if I caused any problems to, uh, spank me at school, call her and let her know and she would meet me at the door and, uh, give me a little spanking in front of my peers and when we got

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home, daddy would spank me again. I didn't have any problem and uh never caused teacher any problems so I didn't get a spanking of those 6 years because I went to kindergarten, it was 7 years I went to kindergarten through the 6th grade and in attics.

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One time I got a couple of slots from the principals because uh. I decided my friends were being called to the office, the principal's office, and I was afraid they were going to go home and I wouldn't get to go home and it was all about

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a fight that I had anything to do with and I got a couple of swats because it was a line up of switches. OK. OK, Mrs. Collins then. One thing that I'm interested in is what kind of students you were as a, as an elementary school

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student. Did you, were you generally excelling as far as Scholastic. Yes, I wasn't, uh, I didn't have any problems in the academic uh structure for my grade school and junior high. I had some problems in transferring from junior high to high school, but uh, I was

00:06:01.399 - 00:06:23.500

an above average student. I was uh. Spent a lot of time, probably too much time under the circumstances, doing things for the teachers because I was a good student and um I probably did a lot of taking care of the room when the teacher was out

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or taking the message from one teacher to another, or checking in the candy and the stamp money and those kinds of little things, but I felt after I got to high school that uh I probably um was, I was able to pass tests without doing any,

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sometimes without reading all of the material or being able to figure out arithmetic problems without uh Doing um Really sitting in on the class on the study period, so, uh. It, although, um, it was a good education and I was not. Ever worried about passing a

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test, I think that I should have been challenged a little bit more to learn. So where did you go to junior high school in Northeast Junior High School, and that of course calls for me to be bussed from home through two other neighborhood areas in Kansas

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City, Kansas, all the way to the northeast section of Kansas City, Kansas to Northeast Junior High School at 3rd or 4th and the troop. Um, the bus started in Rosedale and picked up students in about 5 places and then it traveled down the hill, Rainbow to

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Southwest Boulevard to Greystone Heights, so I got to meet individuals who, um, Lived in different neighborhoods and were of different economic standing and, and were some in some cases relatives of mine out of the Armadale area. And uh my junior high school days were very good

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days for me. So what year was this like in junior high school? This is, uh, well, let's see, it had to be 40 4040. Had to be 40, no, 45, 46 uh in uh in junior high because I entered high school in 49. And where did

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you go to high school to high school, Sumner High School, and um we went to Sumner High School in 1949, 1950, and I think that was a new changeover for me because it seems I got further and further away from the students that I had primarily

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been in class with all of my life and I met individuals who had come from. Other, uh, Grade schools and other classes at Northeast that I had not associated with because they began to classify us academically and then I was placed primarily in that class that

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was supposed to be the top 1/3 of the class and I began to feel that I was not as equipped, well equipped academically as other students, and that caused me some concern. And uh in those classes, particularly it was obvious in English and and uh in

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algebra and geometry that I had missed some of the basics along the way. Who were some of the people around Sumner High School at that time of the instructors? Well, my first year was, uh, the last year of Principal Hodge, and so I had, uh. Principal

00:10:07.679 - 00:10:36.080

Thompson in the 3 out of 4 years, John Hodge was the principal and I went to uh um Sumner and um. SH Thompson, a principal, my last 3 years, those individuals that probably had the most significance. Uh, to me, in my education would have been Rebecca

00:10:36.080 - 00:11:10.630

Bloodworth and Mr. E. Taylor, biology teacher. Those two individuals recognized that my Ability to Be a good student. was not enough. I had to. Learn to um. Go beyond just the printed word, uh, the assignment, and, uh, read outside readings and, uh, begin to write. Although

00:11:10.630 - 00:11:25.849

they, they recognized this, they did not have, of course, an opportunity to impact on me that much, but at least it gave me an indication that, uh, in particularly in Ms. Bloodworth's case, a little girl, you have, you have read what I told you to read,

00:11:26.070 - 00:11:43.049

uh, I'm not sure you have totally comprehended it, so I suggest you go back and read it again, and I'm even reminded of that today, and I've reminded Miss Bloodworth of that. That challenge, which has helped me in in later years. In the case of Mr.

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Bloodworth, uh, excuse me, Mr. Taylor. I could not whisper very well and um he was accustomed to asking a question and having students come to his desk or he would stand in the corner of the room and give the answer and whisper the answer to him.

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And so I always ended up at the end of the line, uh, as the last person to respond, but many times I got in line, not knowing the answer to the question. I may not have been able to whisper very well, but I had very good

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ears. So by the time I got to Mr. Taylor, I knew what the answer was because I had overheard the students ahead of me. Yeah, um. OK, so you went to Sumner High School. What about after that? Um, a little breakthrough for me and, uh, starting

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in junior high, well, I had a couple of experiences in grade school, but it started in junior high was dramatics and um it was probably the first time that I recognized that I could play a role of someone else and do it very easily. And uh

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I got a couple of experiences in Christmas plays and Easter pantomimes and etc. I didn't care about the significance of the role, I just wanted to be a part of the production. So it's Northeast and at Sumner, every time there was an opportunity. It's probably the

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only legitimate reason my mother would accept for me to stay after school would be that I would be preparing for a program or trying out for a play or practicing or rehearsing for a play. I had really no special talents. I played the piano a little

00:13:40.299 - 00:13:58.510

bit, not enough to accompany anyone, and I could make play a solo with great with a lot of practice. But the drama part of it, uh, I, I liked and I began to read a lot of plays and do a lot of um That kind of

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work through my church and uh through little clubs I belong to. So uh during at Sumner High School, I didn't get experiences of some, a couple of plays and small bits in those plays. And, uh, That's probably. sparked me to think about higher education. But my

00:14:20.580 - 00:14:39.710

mother had decided that I was going to be a nurse because being born and raised in the Rosedale area, everyone in that area, uh, And I say everyone that worked, worked at uh Bel Memorial Hospital, which is properly known as KU Medical Center now. And, uh,

00:14:39.869 - 00:14:56.419

every, uh, she thought that that would be a good profession for me, and she at that time was working in the hospital department at uh KU and, um. And encouraged me to go to the University of Kansas in Lawrence and major in nursing, of course, would

00:14:56.419 - 00:15:19.570

bring me back home to the nursing dormitory that would just be 5 blocks away, and of course, mother would be there everyday working. I, uh, we did make the choice. We got a couple of scholarships, graduating from Sumner and uh. Well, Spelman and. And Howard and

00:15:19.570 - 00:15:39.030

one from Tuskegee, but uh those we didn't even respond to a couple of them. We did respond to the Spelman because mother was just insistent that I go to KU. Um-hum. And, uh, so we did. But after enrolling in the first half of the first semester,

00:15:39.080 - 00:15:54.520

I knew that nursing was not for me. The briefing with the counselor on the courses I would have to take, and after making a couple of trips to the building where most of the science classes were being held, I knew I did not want to be

00:15:54.520 - 00:16:14.580

a nurse. So I Did not decide what I wanted to uh. Make my major at that time, I just decided to go ahead and pursue a liberal arts education for the freshman and sophomore year and make a decision later on. And during that period, my mother

00:16:14.580 - 00:16:32.150

became quite concerned that I didn't know my directions, and I did not understanding that I couldn't hurt myself as long as I, I kept a good, strong liberal arts curriculum going, uh making my decision at the end of the sophomore year. So it caused me great

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frustration. Living in a dormitory and, uh, mother would keep asking me what was I going to major in and what I was going to do in my life. So, uh, with that second year, I wanted to get away from the area, not having been, having traveled

00:16:54.219 - 00:17:18.219

out of the general Kansas City area. Like once Before I was 17 years old, I said I wanted to find some way to get away from the area. So I Answered, uh, or responded to a poster or request in one of my, uh, religious, uh, sororities

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bulletins to work as a social worker or an assistant as a recreational assistant in, uh, Jane Hall House in, uh, Chicago. And, uh, I answered, uh, That and they said they hired me and. And I told Mother that uh. Part of my education, but one of

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my classes was for me to have a summer course. And so she let me go. And uh when I got to Chicago, I had been to Chicago before, I went to Edison, Illinois when I was 9 years old, so I had some, I had been there

00:17:58.180 - 00:18:17.170

and I thought that I would be able to live and take care of myself. Of course we were confined to the quarters around Jane Hall house. But that experience probably. was my first experience with individuals who Really felt that they were not a part of the

00:18:17.170 - 00:18:45.359

society who were very poor, uh who uh Really were. And when was this? What summer? This was must have been 19. 55 and that's experience working with those children who to me, you know, in some cases were 13 and 14 years old and they uh Inability

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to relate, to communicate, to, to look the person in the eye and, and say their names and uh they're coming to uh The institution, but every day and and the ones I've worked with. Not their faces not washed and in some cases no shoes and I

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just thought they had forgotten, didn't want to wear them, and it was my first experience of knowing any child that didn't have a pair of shoes to wear and although you know my family was not we were not affluent, I never had to worry about. A

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meal or a dress or shoes on my feet. I only had one pair of school pair and a and a Sunday pair of shoes. My mother sewed and my dresses were made out of flower sacks and I sew and I designed my my clothes and So

00:19:41.180 - 00:19:54.780

I always had plenty of clothes to wear when I didn't, uh, when I want to make a change, I just get some more flour sacks and put something together but um and my mother always had food on the table. I recognized it wasn't always what she

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wanted, but we never were hungry and, uh, that experience let me know that even my people and I was working with some Spanish speaking children and uh. And black children, but I just never really even even with reading the newspaper as an assignment, uh, recognized that

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there were people who were poor. People who did not have the love and care of parents or guardians, and that experience probably set my sights on sociology as a major and working with people and trying to improve the conditions of the unfortunate. You were there at

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the Jane Hill house for only a summer? Just a summer, and less, almost less than the summer. Then I came back and went back to KU. And then I was time you decided to major in sociology. Right. And I'd had one basic course in sociology and,

00:20:57.300 - 00:21:22.589

um, and had done well and was not that excited about it. And right now I can't recall, um, and it's very eye alarming. Really I'm not a person who remember details. I Kind of uh vaguely remember. Taking one enrolling in a sociology course and and I,

00:21:22.709 - 00:21:39.579

I was upset because of the way that the teacher presented 11 phase of it as relates to uh to Africans and uh I, I can't remember but anyway it was just the 3rd or 4th day of the class and I I dropped the course because I

00:21:39.579 - 00:21:56.810

was, I got mad at the teacher, but I don't. And then, um, sometimes my people around me remind me that, uh, maybe then I was beginning to rebel, uh, or beginning to feel, uh, uh, a difference between, uh, myself and, and others. And as you know,

00:21:56.900 - 00:22:20.810

even though I came through, uh, a segregated school system, when I went to KU, I. Did not have a problem relating with other students, um, foreign students, nor the white students. The only. Inkling to me of uh. A difference in individuals was the fact that I

00:22:20.810 - 00:22:38.449

did try my first year to press my hair without the white students knowing it, and I, I relate to that because, uh, I would always, and yet you could, you could smell in the dormitory, you could smell hair burning, but, uh, I would always try to

00:22:38.449 - 00:22:53.920

get my hair pressed and, uh, press it at a time when I knew I wouldn't be around the white students. The white students wouldn't be coming to my room. And probably the, my breakthrough was after coming back from the Jane Hall House experience that, uh, that

00:22:53.920 - 00:23:08.270

beginning junior year, I decided I'd fix my, I'd curl my hair with my hot comb anyplace and, and I'd sit on a white student's lap and do it. So, uh, that's, uh, I don't think I can relate because everyone asked me, well, you hadn't gone to

00:23:08.270 - 00:23:28.839

school with white students before. You hadn't been exposed to, to white teachers and, uh, but that, uh, didn't experience didn't bother me and I've always said that individuals to me are are the same and I have not uh. Really faced in my young life any traumatic

00:23:29.859 - 00:23:46.359

experiences of you can't do this and one reason was of course that my mother lived in a very small realm. The only thing she did was work when she worked at KU and go to church and church was just a half block away from me and

00:23:46.619 - 00:24:12.920

we spent. 3 nights at church and all day on Sunday and we cleaned up the church and made some preparatory things on Saturday afternoon or late Saturday evenings so my experiences had been primarily limited to a half block in my total world and even with At

00:24:12.920 - 00:24:25.630

home, I wasn't allowed to play in the streets. I had to stay in the yard and sometimes I had to stay on the porch. I couldn't travel to play with other children, uh, but all children in the neighborhood or from any part of the city could

00:24:25.630 - 00:24:50.280

come to my house. So it's time. Uh, living kind of in the same blocks really limited your, your experiences in any way? Yeah, it did. Uh, it limited it. Um, a lot of, um, I got to go to the, uh, special trips, uh, that were, Supervised

00:24:50.280 - 00:25:06.660

from the school or from the church, I could travel with conventions as it relates to the church, but they were primarily in the city, uh, every now and then one in Saint Louis, um, but, uh, I was always, if my mother didn't go, I was always

00:25:06.930 - 00:25:31.020

placed in the hands of uh. Another woman, uh, in the, in the church to make sure that I was supervised at all times. So yes, it was uh very limited, but uh. We, uh, had experiences of my mother, uh, washed and clothes and ironed, primarily ironed,

00:25:31.079 - 00:25:51.920

but she did some washing for some white people, and, uh, those individuals. would be at our house quite frequently and spent a lot of time sitting in and visiting with uh my mother. So I, I had experiences of individuals coming in. We had doctors, all kinds

00:25:51.920 - 00:26:10.420

of professional people who, music teachers I can remember who would come after their laundry or bring it and stay for an hour and a half and My mother would have pie or cake or something and we'd eat and talk. So I, I, uh, my even knowing

00:26:10.420 - 00:26:28.890

about a higher education after high school was probably learned from, uh, a white woman coming after her, her search for her husband that my mother had done and talking about her son or daughter going to school to learn to do, to do something special or just

00:26:28.890 - 00:26:51.739

make sure that they got a college degree. OK, when did you graduate from KU? I went to KU 53 to 55. I did not graduate. I went to only 3.5 years at KU and um that next summer after my junior year was I worked at KU

00:26:52.790 - 00:27:10.459

at Watson Library. So the second semester I worked full time, I took some courses. Um, but I worked full time. I had worked part time previous, uh, well, my second semester freshman, I started working. Um-hum. In the summers, the summers before I went to KU, I

00:27:10.459 - 00:27:31.199

worked at, Uh, Clendenning Medical Library, KU Medical Center, and my first summer after my freshman year, I worked at Clendenning Medical Library in Kansas City. Then I transferred to Watson Library while I was in class on campus at KU so that, uh, I earned quite a

00:27:31.199 - 00:27:50.869

bit of money considering considering, and I decided that, uh, I was going to travel even further. One of the ladies that my father had worked for is cutting grass and, uh, as an extra job, and then my mother had, uh, done laundry for, had Children that

00:27:50.869 - 00:28:10.890

I had babysit with intermittently. Uh-huh. Only when, uh, the maid was there. My mother wouldn't let me babysit unless the maid or the cook was, uh, at home with it. Uh. With us also. So, um, And I don't know whether that was to make, to supervise

00:28:10.890 - 00:28:26.829

me or was to make sure that I didn't do anything else but babysit. Right. But it, I enjoyed it and I, I, uh, spent a lot of time at, uh, the shoot's home and, uh, Looking at the labels on the clothes and the brand names on

00:28:26.829 - 00:28:51.989

the foods and the quality and the status of uh living with living in a 100,000+ a year income, so, uh, they wanted to make a trip to their resort home in Michigan. And right now I can't, Methanol Island. And, um, They wanted me to go along

00:28:51.989 - 00:29:07.920

with them and take care of the children. Now I delayed the decision a long time because I didn't know where I wanted to go. I, uh, there were 2 other employees going and I didn't know whether I'd have to. To do more than just babysit, so

00:29:07.920 - 00:29:30.640

I made sure the last minute. And I told mother I was going to go, so we went to, uh, I left and traveled on train with the children to, uh, Mackinac Island to their resort home and I, um, had my own, uh, little cabin. Uh, Along

00:29:30.640 - 00:29:52.020

with, uh, about 4 other employees of the family, but I had to stay in the big house because, uh, the children, staying with the children so the parents could go morning, noon, and night to their various activities. Which made me in charge of the household and

00:29:52.800 - 00:30:10.579

scheduling out for the two children would mean that I also had to determine when we would eat and based on what they wanted, I would tell the cook and based on the needs, so I would tell them, the other employees, when we needed the car and

00:30:10.579 - 00:30:28.540

that uh supervision. Um, Was probably my, my first little experience in politics because, uh. Uh-huh. I had to tell these older long term employees what to do and when to do. And, uh, I, I'd pray about that every night and every morning because I didn't know

00:30:28.540 - 00:30:45.630

if they were going to knock me down or tell me, little girl, you can't tell us what to do, but they responded very well. Um-hum. Um-hum. What was the effect of being from? I, you know, um, A black, what was the effect of being from a

00:30:45.630 - 00:31:03.959

black family that didn't have very much money and being around these people who had $100,000 plus income and a resort home and I just recognized that, uh, again, there was the other end of the spectrum and, uh, that I was probably placed halfway in between and,

00:31:03.969 - 00:31:28.819

uh, in order to make it, uh, in that to toward uh, first of all, um, recognizing that they were so-called rich. I also recognized that they had great problems. Talking about the societal pressures of this had caused these individuals, one, in one case, the man to

00:31:28.819 - 00:31:53.819

be an alcoholic and uh um to yell and scream. Once it had the 2nd bottle of of gin and uh The wife would always tell me to make sure that the children did not see him when he got like that. So although the house was big

00:31:53.819 - 00:32:12.390

enough to do this, I had to make sure that they did not hear him cussing and, and screaming and, and quoting the stock market, uh, losing him thousands of dollars and this kind of thing. And then also with her, it was making sure she had the

00:32:12.390 - 00:32:27.579

problem of not being able to to speak to certain women because they did not have the country club membership that she had or they were not buying the kinds of furs, did not have the kinds of furs that she had, and, and she would always relate

00:32:27.579 - 00:32:48.859

to her luncheon parties as I, I would love to go if such and such a person was not there, but because they're there, I can't be seen with them kind of thing. And um. That, uh, there are differences between. Uh, religion, um, I recognize because in

00:32:48.859 - 00:33:05.280

my church, you know, we were, we were working people, we had 3 or 4 jobs in our church and we gave. Most of our efforts and a lot of our money to the church and I watched her pay her bills, and when she paid her bills,

00:33:05.609 - 00:33:26.859

she sent a check to to their church, but she never attended services and I thought that was a terrible thing for her to send the money and And although she was sending in proportion much more than we were, it was not 1/10 of the tithing that

00:33:26.859 - 00:33:46.510

we, that I had been accustomed to in my house and um She would write off a check to send to uh. The church just likes to pay the light bill, and I thought that was. I guess at that time thought it was just non non-religious sacrilegious

00:33:46.510 - 00:34:06.300

in a way. So, um, I got the total spectrum I guess and recall now within 1 year of the lifestyles that were possible in America. And then when I saw the resort home and recognized that this was just one of 3 that they had and um

00:34:07.750 - 00:34:28.310

That they owned cotton mills down in Arkansas and other places in the southern part of, and that they hired hundreds and hundreds of black people for hardly no wages at all and would move the cotton gin from one city to another when they had when they

00:34:28.310 - 00:34:48.969

felt that they would have to pay more money to the to the. Individual employees and I began to read the financial statements that come in from the company that he would throw away or they would be laying on the desk and I would see the parts

00:34:48.969 - 00:35:07.600

of the little towns that of course I didn't know anything about, but I could recognize that they were towns that had to be even by name, had to be. Towns all primarily all black and um I would hear him sometimes talk about those people talk about

00:35:07.600 - 00:35:27.169

uh of course the *** uh that would work there and he he said ***. To and it was never offensive to me because I, I heard him say it all the time and then again I related back to a couple of plays that negroes was an

00:35:27.169 - 00:35:45.510

acceptable term, but that's the way he, he would say it. Now, he would never speak of negroes or ***. That lived in in the area, in Kansas City area. Those of you knew, you always call them by their first names and in one or two cases

00:35:45.510 - 00:36:08.639

by their by their last names with Mr. or Mrs. um, because he always called my mother, uh, Miss Mitchell, yet he called the maid Mary and Betty. And he called me Joanne, but, uh, I, I would always say the *** down in the plant or the

00:36:08.639 - 00:36:23.719

factory, you know, they're asking for, they're going to have to pay them some more, so I'm going to move it. How did that affect you? Uh, I, I thought about that and I didn't like that, and, um, And I always wondered why he would relate to

00:36:23.719 - 00:36:46.090

them differently, and I never could. I never saw any of those individuals, but uh just after taking the course in sociology and recognizing that there was the Appalachian and there was the southern part of the United States and there was Chicago and New York and there

00:36:46.090 - 00:37:04.209

was Los Angeles or California, and then maybe we could consider Kansas City, but never read anything about Kansas City that Uh, there was a different kind of, of Negro in America. So I just considered at that point in time there was a different group of people

00:37:04.459 - 00:37:28.020

and that they were the people who spoke with the dialect, you know. I would have to check that out. Did these, did being around this well-to do family make you aspire to. This Economic, social mobility. Well, I think, uh, I think it had the effect of,

00:37:28.199 - 00:37:45.530

of, um, my wanting to wear a nice linen dress, I used to. Take a second look at the linen dresses that the lady wore and I thought, well, I'd like to buy some fabric like that and make me some, so I used to buy some fake

00:37:45.530 - 00:38:03.320

butcher linen and make myself dresses designed after the suits and dresses that she had on, and then I thought it would be nice to buy them, but then by my ability to sew and by my recognizing the price that she paid for hers. And sometimes she'd

00:38:03.320 - 00:38:21.600

have a child's dress or pinafore made, I would copy the pinafore and make it for 3 to $4 that's the pattern, material and everything, and she would pay $40 or $50 for the pinafore and I used to compare them, you know, and I'd tell her about

00:38:21.600 - 00:38:40.370

it, so um. I just kind of had a balancer. I I think I sought after a balancer, of course I guess um my parents provided me one, but I, I usually sought out a balance for it because I've never been a brand name person or never

00:38:40.370 - 00:39:01.429

worried about whether I had shopped in the in the big stores, the big name stores, because if I can get what's compliment to it. Visually, uh, at Penney's and to what's what's now Sticks Bear and Fuller, it's OK with me. And, uh, but I did recognize

00:39:01.429 - 00:39:24.139

that there was a difference and you had to pay for that difference, but I did have a little respect for the fact that I thought that they, they overdid it. OK, you're, uh, City councilwoman there. Um-hum. What things were there out of all of these experiences?

00:39:25.560 - 00:39:48.770

Rosedale and, uh, KU in Chicago and uh working for a well-to do family that have You know, push you in the direction where you are now. Well, I kind of guess um. First of all, I'm basic my basic faith in God and that I own nothing,

00:39:49.149 - 00:40:10.560

everything belongs to God, I and everyone else and all things on this earth. And, um, When I, um, so whatever I do. And I feel it's a part of God's plan. Whatever I own, you know, it's just, I'm just have my hands on it for a

00:40:10.560 - 00:40:32.750

few, few, few seconds, a few moments, and it's material things to me, you know, you, I could, uh, I get criticized for it all the time because I, I live in a $70,000 to $8000 house and I'm quite content and um. I, uh, I want to

00:40:32.750 - 00:40:48.629

hand me down $1000 house that I bought my husband and I bought when we we moved to Kansas, Missouri 16 years ago and uh the individual said, well, how do you, you know, why don't you go get the biggie or go get a big house and

00:40:48.629 - 00:41:08.280

live in suburbia. Well, I wouldn't be comfortable because, uh, where do you live? 4030 Bellefontaine, 4030 Bellefontaine. When I first moved to, this is my second marriage, and I started to tell you when I went to Michigan with the family, I met, uh, my first husband,

00:41:08.979 - 00:41:26.409

and, uh, he being a foreigner, uh, was from Jamaica. Um. I had a birthday while I was in the area and he told me to take off and it was not my day off. I had Thursdays off, uh, and the maid would take care of the

00:41:26.409 - 00:41:38.850

children that day and I, I had to make the plans for the day, but I, he told me to take my birthday off, which must have been Tuesday or Wednesday, and I told him I couldn't do that. He said, oh yes you can, you know, Miss

00:41:38.850 - 00:41:54.750

Anne doesn't tell you. When you have your day off, you can make arrangements for it. So I did. I asked her if I could have my birthday off rather than Thursday off and uh she of course said she said no because Thursdays she had planned to

00:41:54.750 - 00:42:07.729

make arrangements to be pretty close to home because the maid was going to be taking care of the children and um she tried to stay around the house a little bit more. Well, I told her I was going to take it off anyway because other people

00:42:07.729 - 00:42:23.620

who worked out there uh took other days off and since it was my birthday, so she called my mother and um my mother called me later on the evening and asked me what did I think I was doing, you know, on my Thursdays off. I said

00:42:23.620 - 00:42:36.729

well I've already told her what I'm doing, I'm going to take the Choose to Wednesday all anyway, we had the discussion, so mother knew it was useless to say anything else. I had made up my mind that I was going to do that. Well, this young

00:42:36.729 - 00:42:58.399

man who uh is told me I could do it, uh, threw a party for me and uh everybody on the island, every servant or employee on the island was invited. And he, he had his boss's house and He had ordered up just uh all of the

00:42:58.399 - 00:43:18.689

fine foods and uh we had um a bartender, etc. so it was a big hula birthday and I was really uh uh amazed and happy and I thought well this is uh this is the exceptions of exceptions of a king, a queen, and I thought well

00:43:18.689 - 00:43:35.500

I'll um I kind of like this and uh we danced and we sang songs and we ate and uh we had all kinds of wines and etc. and I tasted foods that I had never tasted before and they of course knew what the foods were and

00:43:36.219 - 00:43:54.129

anyway, it was a good time. So every day after that, which was about 2 weeks, that young man sent me flowers or sent me a gift or sent me some fruit. And um that uh that mother's eye a little bit, got my eye a little bit,

00:43:54.429 - 00:44:11.330

um. And I, uh, So I was excited when I got back, when we went back home, in fact, I was so excited I couldn't take the train back. I told the lady I was we were going to fly back. I didn't want to spend the day

00:44:11.330 - 00:44:26.139

and a half on the train, the train cars, so she said it was alright with her, so the children and I, we flew back to Kansas City. Well, that was my first flight. And, uh, I didn't have any problems with that and the children had flown

00:44:26.139 - 00:44:41.110

before, so we enjoyed it. Got back to Kansas City and there was a telegram for me and some more flowers and etc. So that went on for about 3 or 4 days. And then I went back to school. About 3 weeks after I had been in

00:44:41.110 - 00:45:05.590

school, this gentleman named Gerald Spence, um, sent some nice love letters and, um, decided and asked me to marry you. And I, and I thought, well I guess I've never dated, never been out alone with the person and uh, uh, why would I even consider it,

00:45:05.639 - 00:45:20.639

but I considered it. And, uh, November came and I told my mother I was going to get married and she's married to him and I hardly knew his name, Gerald Spence and I showed her all the letters and uh so we prepared for a wedding in

00:45:20.639 - 00:45:43.510

December. Never had a date with the individual, in fact. Um, Let's see, well, I missed 11 affair, one love affair before that, uh, where I had dated. I didn't date until I was 17 years old and I only had one date then, that was when I

00:45:43.510 - 00:46:09.979

was a debutante, and then the next date was a senior prom, so, um. I, uh, dated, uh, a young man, a pre-pharmacy student at KU KU and at home. He lived in Bonner Springs. And so December in Danforth Chapel in KU, uh, I got married. He

00:46:09.979 - 00:46:28.909

came to the city two days before we got married. He stayed with my grandmother. And uh, I made all the arrangements and preparations. We got married and friends of ours let us have their house for a week at KU during the Christmas holidays that we'd gone

00:46:28.909 - 00:46:43.530

home and uh, I was then Mrs. Gerald Spence and mother said if I was going back to school she'd help me, and then I decided I didn't want to go back to school, I wanted to travel over the world because he wanted to travel. So, uh.

00:46:44.709 - 00:47:02.070

That uh took me away from KU. And what did she do? Well, we didn't go any, go very far, uh, we came to Kansas City. And uh, he thought he could, he could find a job, uh, he did find a couple of jobs as a cook

00:47:02.070 - 00:47:19.860

in a couple of clubs in the in the city, and I remember he was driving a cab for a while. And then I thought, well, there's just not enough money coming in here for me to continue to go to school and have maintain a house. And

00:47:19.860 - 00:47:34.459

then he had, not knowing him very well, he had not gained any respect for the dollar in America, and he would just as soon light up a $10 bill and light his cigarette with it and burn it or tear it in half and throw half of

00:47:34.459 - 00:47:54.889

it away or play uh play with it than uh. Anything so that uh frustration, uh. Led me to recognize I was going to have to be the economist and the maybe the breadwinner in the family. So I thought it was very exciting and the fact that

00:47:54.889 - 00:48:15.500

he loved to cook and clean and I didn't have to do anything as it relates to the house, um. His take home pay was so meager until we were worried about, I was worried, he was not worried, I was worried about our ability to feed ourselves.

00:48:16.310 - 00:48:38.080

And so I began to use the school money to kind of supplement the home income, and that lasted about a half a semester, so I dropped out of classes and went to work full time at KU. And uh then we moved in Rosedale area and then

00:48:38.080 - 00:48:56.020

he made promises for us to go to Jamaica and we we kept making arrangements to go and arrangements to go. The money never materialized, so we didn't make the trip and uh then we moved to Missouri, Kansas City, Missouri for about a Maybe I bought a

00:48:56.020 - 00:49:31.370

house in about a year or so. Maybe 2 years. And, um, That after 2.5 years of marriage, I became pregnant and um. We had, uh, my daughter was born and being Well, an individual who believed on. They always. Besides, um. Being under English English, British, uh,

00:49:32.479 - 00:49:51.169

education and, uh, political system, he believed that the first child should be a boy. The first child was a girl, and he walked off the day, he took me to the hospital and when the baby was born about 2:48 in the morning and about 4 o'clock

00:49:51.169 - 00:50:14.389

my mother said that he said he was leaving because I didn't have a boy. And uh he walked off and uh he ended up in California, but uh that probably. It was, um, my second traumatic experience, personal experience, and although I, I adjusted pretty quickly to

00:50:14.389 - 00:50:35.120

that, I, uh I told my mother that that was, as far as I was concerned, the end of that relationship, and my mother did not believe that any woman should get a divorce, and I just told her I had to and I would not be married

00:50:35.120 - 00:51:00.219

to him any longer. And when, um, I decided that I was gonna do that. She, uh, became very upset with me. My mother became upset with me, she just didn't talk. So we got, I got the divorce and uh He did return, um, about 4 or

00:51:00.219 - 00:51:16.560

5 months after that and um he convinced me and my mother that we should get married again, so I married him again. And uh he got, he did get a job and we did quite well and then he opened a restaurant over in Kansas, Kansas, and

00:51:16.560 - 00:51:31.590

we did quite well for a little while. We were able to buy another house and uh At that time I I was working in real estate at uh in Kansas City, Kansas, had gotten my agent's license and had done so I worked at the post office

00:51:31.590 - 00:51:50.360

in Kansas City, Kansas. I was making pretty good money and, uh, doing quite well until he decided he wouldn't pay his taxes in relation to the business and, um, um, one year. I gave him the money to get the the tax payment and he decided that

00:51:50.479 - 00:52:06.479

he wasn't going to pay him, so I had to pay about 2 years, 3 years' taxes and when I had to do that, then I divorced him again, so that severed that affair. But uh, Then I moved uh with my with my mother and um pursued

00:52:06.479 - 00:52:28.590

two jobs. I sold real estate for Robert Hughes and Company, worked at the post office Robert Hughes and Company in Kansas, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas, and, uh. And I worked at the post office as a mail clerk, uh. And that was my experience with um. OK, uh,

00:52:28.600 - 00:52:52.800

Ms. Collins. Can you tell me about how you get to be a city councilman? What made you decide, city councilwoman, what made you decide to, uh, To uh run for the office, uh, some of the Intricacies of the political process. Could you just talk about that

00:52:52.800 - 00:53:14.909

generally? OK, I, uh, been active in politics since I moved to Kansas City, Missouri. I was, uh, started off, um. Being active politically only through um passing of political literature and um my mother putting a yard sign in New York when I was young. My mother

00:53:14.909 - 00:53:36.260

was a Republican, my father, I don't know, uh, but there was really no active political action really except that my mother always stressed making sure, making sure that my father voted on election day. So, um, when I went to KU and um Uh, came back, uh,

00:53:36.750 - 00:54:00.179

you know, maybe, uh, It was maybe it was after, um. Hm, I can't remember. Maybe it was after uh. OK, I, well, OK, when I came to Missouri the first time when I registered and file, I was living in the 4100 block on Euclid then, and

00:54:00.179 - 00:54:17.689

I hadn't met too many people in the area, but I did know one Republican that I wanted to vote for and I went to the polls to vote. On election day and I asked for a Republican ballot and the black Republican judges and the white Republican

00:54:17.840 - 00:54:36.149

judges and the black Democrat judges told me, laughed at me and told me I didn't want a Republican ballot in this city. And I, I first of all thought, you know, that they're just teasing, but they were not teasing, they were, uh, they were serious. So

00:54:36.149 - 00:54:52.939

I left a little, uh, to say the least, upset, and I went home and called the board of Election commissioners and told them that I wanted to vote on the Republican ballot and the judges were, um, laughing and and and and really just wouldn't hand it,

00:54:53.070 - 00:55:10.300

wouldn't give it to me. So, um. They came out and I went back to the polls and I got my Republican ballot and I voted for the one Republican that I knew and then I, after thinking about that, um, for several months, maybe a year, I,

00:55:10.310 - 00:55:34.389

uh, and reading in the papers about the political scene in Kansas City, Missouri, recognized that the black community was just practically disenfranchised with uh. The political system because they had been brainwashed to the point that they were not participating in the two party system and I

00:55:35.350 - 00:56:01.600

would say this on a one on one to family and friends and um nobody particularly uh attacked it or elaborated on it they just accepted it as uh my comments that had to be. 55 and 56 or 57 and uh. Because that was OK, and I,

00:56:01.620 - 00:56:19.959

um, Then one thing after another when I could, I related it to uh the political world and it happened while I was at the post office. I went in as the first one of the first group of female career employees and uh from that point in

00:56:19.959 - 00:56:44.344

time I always kept some goal. Everything I did had to relate to some. Kind of forward movement as it relates to sex discrimination and race discrimination. And that same time, my sister, who was everything that I, yeah, everything that I did and I I tell people

00:56:44.344 - 00:57:07.080

now, I don't do anything uh without forethought. And uh and I everything that I do is just I can go to court with it because it's uh to the best of my ability is uh. As clear as forthright and as as um as forward step as

00:57:07.080 - 00:57:30.209

I could make it. So um. Just about that time because I had those couples personal setbacks, I felt like, you know, I've always recognized that the life span is short and um that my adult life is being wasted by uh and uh and. Was stagnated by

00:57:30.209 - 00:57:47.770

certain events, so I made a special effort to see that everything that I did, even though it was, you know, money to a job to make money in order to survive, that I must do it in an area that needed to to have some kind of

00:57:47.770 - 00:58:10.919

breakthrough or to have some have some positive role, uh, in order that other individuals can look upon me as an example. So, uh, We even with volunteer work, uh, even with, um, uh, my day to day job, uh, with my, um, social activities with my church,

00:58:11.260 - 00:58:28.419

I was, uh, planned breakthrough, not anything traumatic that would make headlines, but, uh, that, that individuals around me would recognize that there is an opportunity in different areas and so I kind of went on a couple of year cycles on everything I did. Do you see

00:58:28.419 - 00:58:47.320

the. Yourself as a black Republican being a breakthrough of sorts? Well, it may be considered a breakthrough of my tenure because I've been a Republican ever since I was 18 years old and was able to register and file and I was quite comfortable with that political

00:58:47.320 - 00:59:13.350

identity in Kansas City, Kansas. It would be, it is uncomfortable and has been uncomfortable to be a Republican black in Kansas, Missouri. Well, because the individual black community have lost the respect of the Republican Party and attached that uh. Regard for the Republican Party to various

00:59:13.350 - 00:59:30.149

individuals, not recognizing that the it's the service rendered and not the title or the label. What are what are some of the problems that you've had as a black Republican in Kansas City, Missouri? When you say problems as a black Republican is uh would be the

00:59:30.149 - 00:59:51.500

non-recognition from the black community that will accept me as a Methodist, accept me as a woman, will accept me as uh uh individual with some intelligence but will not accept me as an individual within the Republican Party and will use uh the Republican Party as uh

00:59:51.550 - 01:00:20.020

as a um. Method to attack me. OK, when you say Methodist, OK, and you say Republican. In what sense are you using the term Methodist? When you say Republican and Methodist, in what sense are you using the term Methodist? Is there some I use it because

01:00:20.020 - 01:00:44.020

for some reason my being a Republican, uh, individuals think that I ought to be, uh, dishonest and, uh, not sensitive, um, that I must be, uh, rich. That I have uh a a college degree of uh of from an eastern school that I don't recognize my

01:00:44.020 - 01:01:11.159

blackness, uh, that, uh, those stigmas of, uh, that they attach to the Republican Party yet as a Christian, um, and being a member of the Methodist Church and the Baptist. Accept my being a Methodist, AKA's accept my being a Delta, um, you know, men accept my

01:01:11.159 - 01:01:30.709

being a woman, but when I say I want to be a member of the Republican Party, then that, uh, they just the disregard suddenly leaves, and it, it's not and then for some reason I can't, I. Sir, I can't understand it because it's still with us

01:01:30.709 - 01:01:49.469

in in 1976 and it's still with us, uh, in Kansas City, Missouri because individuals uh say Joanne, I, I swear you I can you, you, uh, you are the individual that should be in the place, but why do you have to be a Republican? then I

01:01:49.469 - 01:02:03.350

wanna know why do I. Have to be a Methodist? Oh, why do I have to be uh 40 years old and 18 have an 18 year old daughter and a 4 year old son, uh, that used to be a criticism, uh, having children and being in

01:02:03.350 - 01:02:26.919

politics, uh, being a woman and being in politics. OK, well, what are the tenets of the Republican Party that you especially, uh, like? OK, the Republican Party started with two basic principles. One was to abolish slavery, the first one, and the second one was to keep

01:02:26.919 - 01:02:46.729

this country from going into anarchy, and those are the founding principles of the Republican Party. Now, um, uh, we, this is a two party system, uh, it would not survive 200 years, uh, as a democracy if it did not have, uh. Uh, a viable two parties

01:02:47.000 - 01:03:08.389

and recognizing that I have no problems with it being the minority party, uh, uh, I believe the checks and balances of a minority reports on, uh, uh, on the, the, the nomination of, uh, a group of officers for the Girl Scout troop is sometimes necessary and,

01:03:08.399 - 01:03:32.820

uh, it, uh. You know for that non-recognition that uh a block of individuals whether it be a low economic standing, whether it be of a racial group needs to have uh individuals that can identify with them that are within both parties and um. We've, we, uh,

01:03:33.239 - 01:03:51.199

of, uh, the black race have not learned to, uh, well I say we have forgotten how to because there was a period of time when, uh, we exercised our roles in both parties very well in the in the uh early parts of history of our history.

01:03:52.094 - 01:04:18.149

And some of our greatest uh leaders were um were Republicans and there was a time when all blacks were Republicans and that that was a mistake. But uh then we moved into the Democratic Party and we're slowly, slowly gathering um the uh Um. Uh, what you

01:04:18.149 - 01:04:24.330

call it? Gathering enough, uh, Political,