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Executive director of the Black Archives in Mid-America, this morning we're interviewing Mr. John Franklin. Of the station, what is it? WGAF Kansas City, Missouri. Uh, today's date is Tuesday. You don't have it running. Um, yes, I do. Uh, no, you're not? No, dialogue. Yeah, just like

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it is. Today is Tuesday, September 29th, 27th, uh, the time 28 is 28th, excuse me, the time is 9:27 a.m. Good morning, John. Um, first of all, uh, can I have your full name? John B. Franklin Sr. All right, um, and where are you from, John?

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From Baton Rouge, Louisiana, originally. Lousy, Louisiana, call it like I've seen. All right, uh, where were you born? Born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And, uh, June of 16, 1929. OK. And your mother's name? My mother's name is Leola Shelme. OK. And, uh, what, and your father's

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name is Clark Franklin. That's S P R K F I N. OK, where was your mother from? My mother also was from Louisiana, a small town called Baker, Louisiana. My father was from a small town called Slaughter, Louisiana. All right, um, do you know whether or

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not your parents were slave descendants or were they freedmen or whether Definite slave descendants. They were. Can you remember your great grandfather's name? No, I cannot. And the facts about it, um, I can remember my, I can recall mine. Grandfather's name. What was his name? Uh,

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on my father's side was Jake Franklin, uh. My mother's father was a Giles, J I R L E S, but I can't recall his first name. Um, do you know, uh, all, all right, you were born in Louisiana. Uh, do you, were you born in a

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hospital? No, I was not. You were born at home? Yes. And who was the midwife? I don't know that either. You don't? How many brothers and sisters do you have? OK, I'm one between my parents. However, I have both my parents remarried. I have 6 brothers

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and sisters on my mother's side and 4 brothers and sisters on my father's side. OK. Um, what elementary school did you attend in Louisiana? Low OK, originally, we went to a Presbyterian type of elementary school in Louisiana and, uh, I'm trying to recall the name. Let

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me ask you a question. You call it Louisiana. Is that the way the natives, is that what the natives call Louisiana? No, I tell you what, when I was in the Air Force, um, I, I did, you know, like life in the Air Force, and I

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was stationed up in Cheyenne, Wyoming. I met a dude there from, um, he was from Rhode Island, and when I was in, in, in, in, um, In tech school up in Cheyenne, this guy used to always call me Lousiana, you know, uh, and the service guys

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have a will, uh, relating dudes to the region they're from, see, so he called me Louisiana and as a result, and this was back in 1951, I think it was. And uh when people would ask me where I was from, um, you know, I just start

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singing Louisiana. It always got a nice chuckle for most people, you know. So the way I justify it now is a lousy place, I call it Louisiana. However, it's not that lousy place. It was at one time, believe me. Uh, you do not remember the elementary

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school that you attended? Yes, one was, um. A Presbyterian. Which was sort of a private school, I guess you could say. And another one was Sklarville Elementary and another one was Southern Elementary. All these were in the same town, yes, within the same, same locale, area

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of the city. You were, uh, situated in the agricultural community. Am I, am I, am I correct by saying? Slightly. Well, did you, did you pick cotton and things like that when you were but I did. Chop some corn, uh. I picked some strawberries in the

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summertime when kids get out of school, they take them they pick strawberries. I've never had the opportunity to pick cotton, something I thought about once I, you know, I grew up. Well, I was, well, between the ages of, let's say 5 and 10 years of age,

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uh, did you, uh, go to these schools that you named then? Yes. Alright. What kind of a student was John Franklin, um, the 1st 10 years of his life, let's say. When I first started school. Yes. By all means. When I first attended school, In the

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south. The system, I don't know if it was a system, but they, you know, they had a, a, a, a way of skipping kids. I can recall going from 2nd grade to 4th grade in the same year because they had, they had a terminology they call,

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you know, he's app, so we're moving forward, see. However, I didn't finish high school until I was 20 some years old because I dropped out. I dropped out of school like. 68 times I dropped out of school in 6th grade. Why dropped in. Why did you

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drop out of the 6th grade? I really don't know. What were you doing? OK, one time I was working, you know, I came from a poor, a very, very poor environment. Uh, poverty, you know, was, was, uh, on a high level compared to where I came

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from. OK, I dropped out in the 6th grade. I dropped out again in the 8th grade. Dropped out in the, uh, your people were poor people. Oh yes, I dropped out again in the 9th grade. I dropped in the ninth grade. I completed ninth grade, went

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to the Air Force. Uh, this is in 47. Came back from the Air Force, went back to high school, dropped out again, and went back in the Air Force. Finally, I completed high school, um, through a GED test. Um. With the Air Force. With the Air

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Force. Yes. Mhm. What were you doing in high school though, uh, at home? Uh, were you a pretty good student in while you were in elementary school, I was, uh, an above average student. When I got in high school, you know, I started getting involved in

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sports. I played football and basketball and stuff of this nature, varsity, yes. Then I start, I started dropping off. I started playing varsity, uh, sports when I was in 8th grade. Then I started, uh, dropping off in my subjects. I was an average student, say, uh,

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a C to C+ student. Mhm, mhm. Um, um, what were the circumstances of you initially going into the Air Force? The circumstances of me initially going to the Air Force at that time in the deep South, a black had nothing to look forward to. For instance,

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you see your so-called models. They would finish college. See, Southern University located right in Baton Rouge. OK, they would finish college. You look around, the dude may have a master's degree. The cat would either teach school or Be a mailman. Plus, another thing, I had never

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been out of the state of Louisiana, never, so I wanted to, you know, I wanted to travel. My, my father had been in the service in World War II, so, you know what guys come back telling these war stories. So I wanted to travel and see

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what things would be like for me to get away from Alan. Mhm Well, with, with, with, uh, Southern university right there in town, uh, did you have a chance to ever bump into the students over there and see what was going on over there at over

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at Southern at the, at the college? Yes, because see, I went to high school on Southern University campus, and one time I attended elementary school. You can start at Southern University in the first grade and go through the, uh, high education education structure at Southern. Including

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they had, they also had a blind and deaf school because it was a state school and um there was a time when I was playing varsity football at Southern High. Which Southern Prep of the university we had players from the Southern University varsity team assisting the

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coach at the high school level because they, they were doing, um, their student training, a student teaching training in PE. So, so we came in contact with, uh, college students because we're on the same campus who daily, who was your best buddy back then? A guy

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named Herbert Yates who, um, Strangely enough, he and I played football together through elementary school. We started playing football in elementary school, uh, what you would call junior high. Now at that time you went to elementary school from, uh, 1st through 7th and That time 8th

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grade was a freshman in high school, which they later changed. I got taught to change because one time I used to graduate in, in the state of Louisiana and graduated at 11th grade instead of 12th grade, and I got caught in that shuffle too because I

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was in 8th grade when I passed the 9th instead of me being a sophomore in high school, I was a freshman in high school again because they tacked on 12th grade. I don't know how this, you know, was in the other. Locations throughout the nation I

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guess some, some, some region had a 12 quake all the time um but Herbert Eates who at this time uh he and I volunteered to go into the service together. I passed the Air Force entrance exam, which was, uh, I guess it was mere luck. We

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had the same background, same, uh, uh, schooling, and he flunked it. So he went in the army and I went in the Air Force. Uh, I stay 20 years he's still in the, is he still in the army? No, he's out in California. He's going to

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school, got a master's degree here, sir. Super job somewhere out in California, which I haven't seen him for over 20 years, I guess. Uh, uh, what was your initial impression of the military? Originally, when I first went in the military, it was, um, July 10th, 1947.

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I was stationed in, um, Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas for basic training. Um. Originally, when I went into service, you know, I was born in, um, poverty. I was raised in, um, A segregated setting. And I thought once I left Louisiana, and once

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I came, um, affiliated with the Air Force, you know, segregation would just disappear, you know, that's time. Now reminded now, my thinking was at that time. And I went in the Air Force and the first thing I encountered was segregation because during that time, the services

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weren't integrated we're talking about 1947 and the Air Force integrated in 1949, November to be exact, 194949. We had Uh, all black training squadron, and facts about it, our barrage had black tar paper. You wouldn't, you probably being a young buck wouldn't know anything about this,

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but one time. Um, say the guys, the other. Troops, see the white airmen, they had um. The barracks was gray and it had the best of siding on them. We had black tar paper barracks. That was it, you know, and it was, you know, everything we,

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we were completely Uh, isolated from the rest of the base. This is basic training, you know, gateway to the Air Force. And uh once I got out of basic. Instead of me going to tech school, like, you know, they send most of the heir to tech

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school. I went to a base, was thrown into what they call a base service squadron, and I mean, you know, it's don't even find the name, it's just what it said. We service the base. We're talking about an all black squadron again. See, this was out

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in, um, Roswell, New Mexico, you know. So to get out of this situation, you know, I'm still frustrated. I volunteered to go overseas, went to Okinawa. Again. You know, I was put in ammunition outfit where, you know, you carried ammo from World War II and stacked

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it in the warehouse. Um, and again, all black squadron, but white officers. I always had. The white dude at the top. Did you, uh, actually do any time during the Korean conflict or World War II or what? No, I came in after World War II, but

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I did serve during the Korean conflict, yes. What did you serve? What did you serve in the Korean conflict? OK, during the Korean conflict, uh, When the Korean War broke out, I was in, uh, San San Angelo, Texas at Goodfellow Air Force Base. Mhm. I got

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discharged like the Korean War. Broke on June 25th of 1950 and I was discharged July 9th. 1950 my three years was up right after that, all 10 or 15 80s, uh, Harry S Truman, who was president during that time, froze all troops in the service for

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an extended year because of the Korean conflict. However, God of service and I stayed out about 11 months, I think I re-enlisted, so. I was at a base in Louisiana, uh, Boxdale Air Force School in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hm. 00. You are still in the military right

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now, right, as a, as a, in a reserve status, right? No, I'm retired. You are retired? Yes, when did, when did you finish your 20 years? OK, I retired June, no, correction, September 30th, 1969. What's the, who's the highest ranking black officer that you have served

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under? Believe it or not, during that time, we, we can go further than this. The highest black ranking officer I saw during this particular time. Was. A LC, which is like cunning, but it was a dentist. You didn't hear blacks in um A strategic position during

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this time. In fact, uh, you know, I never saw a black general. I've never seen a blank full of word. Where, where was Chappy at that particular time? Chappy was at that time, uh. Once he was in Massachusetts as a squadron commander for you fighting about

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it. You read about him in, in, in, um, black magazines like, no, no, no, black magazines say like Jed, um, uh, something of this nature, or maybe the, uh, the old Chicago Defender or the Pittsburgh Courier or something of this nature, but he was a major

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at that time. Facts about it, when I first heard about Chet, he was a lieutenant. The guy you heard about, the only guy you heard about military-wise was the first black general in the army, Bill Davis Senior, and then when his son came along, came to

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West Point. Uh, Bill Davis Junior, because he was the first black base commander, and he was commandant of a, uh, base in, uh, Columbus, Ohio in Lockbourne Air Force Base. It's an all-black base, believe it or not, all black, all-black base. The commander, the deputy, the,

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uh, but this, did this inspire you at all? No, it didn't because it, what, what did, what did, what did you hope to get out of the military? The one thing I hope to get out of the military, and I first went in the military, get

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away from Louisiana, get away from the Uh, it was a frustration. The ticket out was a ticket, you know, plus the fact to develop my mind. See, I didn't, you know, you know, you went to school, you went to a black school. There's nothing wrong with

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going to a black school, but we didn't get the, the. The background, we didn't get the training necessary to compete, you know, you went through school, like I said, you could be a mailman or a teacher. That was it. And what I hope to get out

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there for, I hope to obtain I thought you was gonna say get me out of the business. To obtain some um. You know, some sort of gratification of myself that I could, you know, I could make it. Outside of teaching or, uh, caring. You knew, you

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knew all the time that you could make it. Oh, yeah, I had, I had. Do you have the confidence also? Oh, yes, yeah. But I needed an opportunity. Um-hum. To make it, see. So, I figured the Air Force would give me this and for a long

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time, you know, I got the same thing I would have gotten in I was, you know, we did. Had your mother and father's, uh, condition, uh, bettered by, by, by this particular point in life, you, you were talking about, uh, earlier in the interview about they

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were, let's say, poor, you know, or, you know, uh, they weren't making that much money, you know, uh, had their condition bettered at that particular time by the time you're saying that you were in the military. Yes, yes, it had, it had. What, what was your

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father's occupation at this particular point? Common labor. He was common labor. What's common laboring? OK, he was working, uh. You got to understand, I've never lived with my father, per se. Um. I lived with a stepfather until I was, uh, I think I was 12, and

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then I ran away from home and then I, I was raised, uh, by a foster parents who was the sister of my mother, which, you know, made an extended family sort of thing because they took me in, see, they didn't have any kids, my uncle and

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aunt. Uh, virtually raised me from that point. But the, um, the situation, um, they were able to move out of that setting where I was born and, you know, whether it was in a shiny shack on Red, you know, one of these little 33 room jobs

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and purchased land and build your mother, what would she do? Housewife. She was just a housewife, taking care of business, right, um. All right, you, uh, finished your assignment with the military when? Uh, the first assignment when I initially went in in 47 and uh. July

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9th of 1950. What rank were you? I'm a second. Well, that time I was a corporal, two stripers. All right. Then the second, well, what did you do between then and the second time? OK, I went back to high school. Um-hum. I stayed in school and,

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uh, Strangely enough, I had passed before I left. Before I left, I was at Southern High School, which is on Southern University campus. OK, I passed through the 10th grade, but when I came back from the service, I arbitrarily skipped the 10th grade and went to

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the 11th grade, show you what kind of, you know, system they had. You know, black students, they, they couldn't care less. I went to a new school. Went in 11th grade, didn't even have a report card. You know, just went on in 11th grade to a

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new school. See, this was Capitol Avenue High School, where I stayed there years. Where is this? This is in Baton Rouge. It's also in Baton Rouge? Yes. OK. Um, Uh, then you reenlisted, and I reenlisted in the Air Force. I finished, I, I went to school

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one year at Capitol, got out of school June 2nd and 3rd, and I went back in the Air Force June 7th. Uh, when you went back into the Air Force, were you still a corporal? No, I lost one. I was, uh, what they call, they changed

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the system then from the, it went from, see, the Air Force separated from the, um, Army, it used to be the Army Air Force, Army Air Corps, then it went into the Air Force. So gradually they changed the uniforms, went from the, the, Olive green to

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blue and then they changed the, um, Um The, uh, designation system of the rank. So I went to airman and so I was an airman 3rd, which is the same thing as PFC one step above the lowest ranking, um. How much money did you make? Originally

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when I first went in the Air Force, and we were talking about this the other day with some, some old timers, I made $75 per month. And now a guy going into the service, man makes $385 per month. Basic pay without any allowances or anything of

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this nature. Well, when you retired, what was your rank? Tech Sergeant. All right, where did you get all this? I mean, where'd you get all what what period did you get all that momentum. When I retired, actually I could have been a master sergeant, but during

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that particular time, if you accepted, I had made master. I was selected to make master. I'd come out on the promotion list. Had I put the stripes on, I would have had to have stayed an additional 2 years. That was the, um, the, um. Requirement in

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Air Force regulation during that time. So instead of taking that, you know, getting that top ranked master sergeant with the six stripes, I chose to, uh, Had you married by now? Oh yes. When did you marry? I got married in, uh, Uh, September 27th, 1958, which

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had a, uh, my 18th anniversary was yesterday. Who, who did you marry? Uh, a young lady, formerly Geraldine Banks, also from Baton Rouge. She's a graduate of Southern University. She, she's degreed, yes, what? Education. She's, uh, she teaches in the, uh, Kansas school system at Glen

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High Elementary School. She is teaching here? Yes. Uh, when it rains it pours, uh, speaking about this rank you, you asked that I never did answer the question, because when I re-enlisted in the Air Force in 1951, uh, I think it was June 10th or June

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7th or something, then. The Air Force has had integrated quote unquote integration. Uh, everything was still status quo in certain areas. Louisiana was one of them. OK. I went to Box Hill Air Force Base at this particular time. Now, I still didn't have a high school

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diploma, you know, I completed 11th grade. I was afforded the opportunity to go to tech school. They sent me to tech school up in Shine, Wyoming, and, uh, I came back from tech school within 6 months after I was back. It made me, uh, a 2nd

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class, that's 2 strikes. Had you seen any action at all, John? No. Generally in the Air Force, the only action you'll see unless you're a pilot is as a supportive, you know, supportive nature. See, like. Guys in Vietnam in the Air Force, you know, they didn't

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actually go out and fight the enemy, you know, uh, shooting at the enemy, but if the base was attacked, then they may be called on to defend the base. Then I made, I made staff. I wanted to staff, which is a full stripe within. So I

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came back in '51. In 55, I was staffed boom, boom, boom, you know. But then I stayed staff for like seven years. Were you a hard person to deal with as a sergeant. I had a lot of, a lot of animosity, you know, because of, um,

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see, blacks. In the service, as far as uh promotion. was under the thumb, you know, and we didn't get promoted as rapidly as, as the other troops. Who was the toughest dude you served? Uh, I have to say, I'm trying to think of this guy's name.

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I can't think of his name. It was a captain. Was my commanding officer in England. How did you like England? Loved it. Beautiful country. When you were treated like a human being rather than uh uh a step, yeah, I mean, the English people, uh. Although they

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weren't by nature a warm person, they didn't discrimination was as, as, uh, outgoing as it would be in America. Nowhere was seized. Did you go to Germany? Yes. What did you like? How did you like Germany? Outstanding. Super, super God's country. God's country. I was in,

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you know, like 27 different countries, but, uh, yes, uh, well, Northern Africa. I was in, um, French Morocco right after the Moroccans became liberated. In that's why they had some uprising over there. Cut a few Frenchman's heads off, about 5 or 6th, I think. What'd you

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think of Africa? Beautiful country. Is it better than home? Uh, as far as, uh, race relation, yes. When I was, I was in Africa and, and they call this Northern Africa. Now, now, John, you are a very, uh, religious person. I've always noted that. Um, uh,

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what was the effect of your religion at this particular time while you were in Europe and in Africa? Were you attending church? Were you, uh, what were you doing with your religion? At that time, I would go to church. Not like I do now because you

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know you go to Bass chapel, you know, this guy get up there with a prepared, uh, statement like just like a mess hall prepared meal out of Washington, you know, his summer is prepared and it sent to him in a letter and you know you, there

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was nothing, you didn't get anything. I didn't. I didn't feel that so this guy didn't feed my soul, you know, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't, uh, do anything, you know. The choir would be singing songs like, um, out of. A Shakespeare play or something of

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this nature, so you didn't, you didn't have that, you know, that down home preaching, you know, the cat didn't, didn't get out. What was your first job after returning to the states? No, wait, wait a minute. You, you, when did you come back to the states?

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The first time? No, the last time. OK. The last time I came back to the states, uh, you mean the first time in the military, Pennsylvania military. OK. Last time I came back to the states was in 1967. And uh I invaded another field that blacks

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had been kept out of, so to speak. I came to Kansas City, Missouri as an Air Force recruiter and believe it or not, in the history of the Air Force, I was the second black recruiter in Kansas City. The first guy came in in '63, a

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Sergeant Shell, who was a good friend of mine, and he stayed in from '63 to 67. No, he came in '56, stayed to 60. They didn't have another black recruiter until I came in '67, December '67. Mhm. Um. And I was an Air Force recruiter. How

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long did you do that? I stayed here from December '67 until I retired in September of '69. I retired here as an Air Force recruiter. Hm. Used to be down on, um, 9th and uh Corps Rand, Tech Sergeant. Tech Sergeant. Yes. Um, what was your first

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civilian job? First civilian job, believe it or not, Horace, was at the Human Resources Corporation. It was. Yes. What was your position? I was the, uh, procurement and property officer. That's where we met, right? That's where you and I met. Right on. Yes, and I was

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a neighborhood developer. That's right. Right on. Under the assassin administration. Right on. No, no, I was under Cliff Love. Yeah, that's right. Love was the man then. That's beforeassin had manipulated his, his, uh, done his thing. Um, uh, let me see, you were a procurement officer.

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How long were you there? I was there from, uh, October 169 through September 30th, '72. What was it like working in a poverty program? OK, HRC, To me, gave me the opportunity. To, um, Development. OK. True, I stayed in the Air Force 20 years. True, I

00:28:51.819 - 00:29:12.880

had personal knowledge of, um, certain things, but at HRC. HRC gave me an opportunity. First he gave me an opportunity to work in a civilian life, which I hadn't done, you know, like in 20 years and I worked with something that I had been knowledgeable of

00:29:12.880 - 00:29:32.699

because I've got some training in the Air Force procurement and property, you know, I did, I had accounts and millions of dollars of um, Accounting for property in the Air Force, plus the fact at HRC. I was able to go to school. See, when I first

00:29:32.699 - 00:29:43.699

came out of the Air Force, all these years in the service, you know, like I said, I goofed off playing ball and all this stuff, and I didn't even think about it going to school where I went to school, uh, when I went to HRC, I

00:29:43.699 - 00:29:59.890

went to school part-time at Park College, and I started there. In '71, I think it was. But I mean, I mean, how did you like working with, uh, radical groups and people hollering at you and calling you *** and give me this *** and that, or,

00:30:00.109 - 00:30:15.109

I mean, how did you like that? Well, it was coming from, from, from, from, from the same position where I had come from, so, you know, I was able to relate to it. And, uh, being black and being brought up in poverty, uh, my entire life

00:30:15.109 - 00:30:33.329

until I came in the Air Force, it was something. I felt, uh, good at being in a position to try to help. Um-hum. For a change, and I thought HRC at that time was doing a commendable job under the leadership of Chester Stovall. Um. And, uh,

00:30:33.420 - 00:30:51.010

that was the only person that you answered to was Stovall at that time, right? Believe it or not, I answered to a guy who had been my commanding officer in, a television radio, uh, concept was foreign to me. So, uh, jokingly after service was over, I

00:30:51.010 - 00:31:05.719

told, um, Reverend Abel, who's a, you know, a young man like myself, I said, hey man, I may be interested in that, in that position over at the station. Jokingly, I said, he said, OK, why don't you apply, you know, I think you, you qualify. So

00:31:05.719 - 00:31:18.160

I went on for another two weeks and, and, you know, I didn't apply. So he called me one day. You still work for HRC? Yeah, I still work for HRC. He called me one day and this took place about, this was in like July, June or

00:31:18.160 - 00:31:43.430

July sometime, yeah. And what had happened, the Taft company had created um Quote unquote, uh, management level positions. A new management level position of, uh, community affairs director in all that tap stations. And so, I never applied, so 2 weeks later, Reverend Abel called me because

00:31:43.689 - 00:31:58.310

the station had called him to. You know, make some recommendations to our, uh, how the system work, you know, always the preacher's always up on what's happening in, in the black community, see. So I told Abe, I said, man, I don't know anything about television. And

00:31:58.310 - 00:32:14.150

he said, well, you know, why don't you try putting in for this position? It doesn't include. On the air type thing. It's a, it's a, it's a thing dealing with community groups and with your, uh, background in service in HRC, you know. So I applied along

00:32:14.150 - 00:32:27.949

with about I think they interviewed like 30 some people over here for this job. I didn't think I had a chance simply because at that time I only had about 42 semester out of school, well, maybe 52 I'd thrown upon college for a couple of years.

00:32:28.770 - 00:32:46.250

And um, So they had, they had the interviews and uh I came over and to show you how unconcerned I was about the position, I recommended three of my partners. One of them was, uh, two of the guys that, that you know yourself, um. Cochran, who

00:32:46.250 - 00:33:00.810

was the, uh, head start coordinator at the time, and, uh, Hill, who was the EEO officer, I don't know, you know, Wendell Hill, remember Wendley Hill, and I also recommend another good friend of mine's, uh, Albert Gibbs, who at that time was with Sepp down with

00:33:00.810 - 00:33:16.599

Vernon Brooks. So that's show you how unconcerned I was, you know, about the position. So when he interviewed me the first time. Then they called me back and strangely enough, the 3 guys I recommended. Two of them finished in, in the, uh, in the semi-finals as

00:33:16.599 - 00:33:31.790

they call it. They, they selected 6 guys, and I'll call back the 6 guys. And this dude who was the um the uh general manager of the station at the time, Nick Bolton. When he interviewed me the 2nd time, he and another guy who was here

00:33:31.790 - 00:33:49.849

at radio. General manager Paul Murphy. He looked at me, he looked at me, saying, Franklin, say, you know, it's a strange situation. Everybody we've interviewed for a certain time have mentioned money. But you haven't, and money's very close to my heart. So in terms, I looked

00:33:49.849 - 00:34:00.520

at him because, you know, I had a good job, you know, so I could be very candid. So I looked at him, I say, it's closer to my heart than yours because you've had it all your life and I've never had it. So he thought that

00:34:00.520 - 00:34:14.928

was funny. I wasn't laughing, you know, I'm serious. So the dude. Put me a piece of paper with some figures on so you told me to cycle one that you'd be interested in in uh. That would make you leave HRC and come with us. So I

00:34:14.928 - 00:34:32.570

cycle, you know, figure out of sight, you know, and didn't think anything of it. He said, OK, we're in the same ballgame. So at that point, hey, I got very interested in this job. In facts about it, you know, then it got, got good, yeah, so,

00:34:33.010 - 00:34:46.350

you know, so oh I say this went on for, you know, then 2 or 3 weeks later. Call me back and uh start showing me around the building and off the job. So you've been here. How long have you been here now? I came here in

00:34:46.350 - 00:35:04.540

October, on October 6th in 1972, the, uh, four years. Who was the first person? Oh, when did you find out that you're gonna have your own show? OK, let me tell you how that developed. Originally when I came over here, my position was, uh, quote unquote,

00:35:04.659 - 00:35:26.399

Director of Community Affairs, which, as you know, dealing with organization and people, especially men, minority people trying to help them get exposure for their programs or trying to promote, um, Um, black enterprise, whatever the case may be. This program developed out of the need, for instance,

00:35:26.550 - 00:35:52.750

this station had nothing addressing itself to the needs of minorities. Channel 5 at that time, Chuck had 30 minutes and like Dimension was being uh hosted by, um, uh, call his name for me, um, before Chi Chi had the program. Mel Gibson? No. He got it

00:35:52.750 - 00:36:07.629

left here and went to Washington and he came back in. No, at Channel 9, Channel 9, yes, uh, 00, my man, uh, first he left a reporter, yes, first he left and went to OEO, I know if you recall, and I can't call and I know

00:36:07.629 - 00:36:25.409

Tim Richardson, Tim Richardson, yes, OK, so Channel 4 had nothing. So in my job as community affairs director, I'm supposed to make a recommendation that will help. Um, get minority exposure that they need in various programs. So I told the guys, hey man, you gotta get

00:36:25.409 - 00:36:45.399

something address in yourself, not only needs of blacks because you have other people that's a minority, racial minority that also needs some, some exposure. So you need a program. To, uh, take care of the situation. So the guy, you know, he said, OK, develop, so I

00:36:45.399 - 00:37:01.330

wrote the thing, developed the thing, and I thought the guy was gonna, you know, like the other stations had, um, you know, had reported people trained in this particular thing to do these programs, you know. I had no training in, uh, television or broadcast, um, anything

00:37:01.330 - 00:37:18.139

of this nature, and this guy told me, he said, OK, do it. So that right then and there told me one thing. Either you didn't need no training to go to television or if blacks are given a chance. To do the same thing. They can do

00:37:18.139 - 00:37:36.899

it, you know. So I took at that time, show you how, how frightened I was at the thought of going on television. They had 3. Time slot open. One was, um, 6:30 in the morning, one was 9:30, 1 was 10:30. The first show I did with,

00:37:36.949 - 00:37:53.479

with, with Martha Williams. Who you recall used to be the coordinator of um Area 5 me we had sent out on uh so-called resources yes, I did a program with she and a couple other young ladies on the. A program they had of um obtaining goods

00:37:53.479 - 00:38:12.949

and Paying light bills for people who couldn't afford to. What other type of people have you had on? Well, I've had some of, um, has Muhammad Ali been on your show? I've had Muhammad Ali. I've had Joe Black, the ex-baseball player. I've had, uh, Writers of

00:38:12.949 - 00:38:36.939

note. I've had, uh, Horace Gibson, the, uh, president of the Black Archives. Horace Gibson, Horace, I'm sorry, Horace Peterson, Sonny Gibson, Sonny Gibson, uh, from, uh, Model City 2D. I've had Jefferson Sassa, who's the deputy director of the Human Resources Corporation. I've had, uh, Mrs. Julia

00:38:36.939 - 00:38:53.989

Hill several times, the president of the NAACP, her counterpart in Kansas City, Kansas, which is named. And New Orleans from the chapter in Kansas City, Kansas, I've, uh, given SA 20 a great deal of, yes, uh, SA 20 with Bernard Power and, uh, the board of

00:38:53.989 - 00:39:15.699

directors was the, uh, uh, WDAF TV basketball show, uh, basketball team part of your, your organization? Yes, in fact, Spot is another one of my innovative, uh, programs coming over here. I'd worked with the, the boys club, and, uh, I knew the need. For kids in

00:39:15.699 - 00:39:34.399

the inner city to, to participate. And things. What do you plan on doing with your, with your program in the future? Hopefully, Someone would come along and They will give it to them. That's not my, you know, that's not my, even my field, you know. It's

00:39:34.399 - 00:39:49.149

something I do out of necessity. I do it because no one else over here, uh, had even thought about it. I developed focus on minorities. I, I, uh, I, I wrote the program. I, I write the scripts, uh, and like I said before, it's, it's an

00:39:49.149 - 00:40:04.969

indication of what you can do is given the opportunity to see, but it's not something I glorify myself. What are you gonna do next. Well, I know that definitely not, as you know. Finally, after all the years of going to school part-time at Park College, I

00:40:04.969 - 00:40:27.969

finished in 1974 with what, uh, a BA in social work and sociology. Um, you have a master. Believe me, back in the time when I was, you know, uh, trying to pull myself up by my bootstrap, I made average grades. When I went to park, uh,

00:40:29.000 - 00:40:47.479

I graduated with good grades, man. Facts about it, I was, uh, an undergraduate, a little gold, uh, star onion, cum laude or whatever they call it. Then I went on further and I went to, uh, Webster graduate school and I got a master's degree, uh. The

00:40:47.479 - 00:41:09.860

main campus is in um Saint Louis, probably have, um, Extension schools generally be located around military installation because I went through Richard Kaba Air Force Base to Western College in Kansas City and I, I pursued the field of uh human relations and, uh, public, public administration,

00:41:10.000 - 00:41:22.590

so I have a double master's. Uh, so hopefully was Jefferson Sasser in any of your classes while you were at PR? Yes, not a military man. The facts about it, believe it or not, when I went to Park College, they only had 13 blacks in '71.

00:41:22.949 - 00:41:44.320

I encourage most of the people that's there now or have finished since me to go to Park College. I encourage Jefferson Sassa, Sarah Holliwell, uh, Senny Gibson, um. Just, you know, and most of them was associated with some of the social programs in the city people

00:41:44.320 - 00:42:08.639

I dealt with constantly, and now they have lots of blacks out there. What do you, what, so what else you gonna do in the future? I don't know. Uh, one time I thought about going into. Uh, Business for myself. Another time I thought about. And, um,

00:42:09.399 - 00:42:24.159

But that takes, uh, pretty heavy capital outlay. You make money, John. I thought about going into, uh, got your retirement plus you got this job, this money here, services, but it's a struggle telling what else you got, what else you got. I have 3 kids to

00:42:24.159 - 00:42:47.040

put through college. I have a kid, um, Katrina L. Franklin. John B. Franklin the 2nd, my son. And incidentally, Katrina is 17 years old. She's in pre-law school now at, uh, Johnson County Community College. Uh, my son is at, uh, Shawnee Mission West High School. He

00:42:47.040 - 00:43:04.580

is, uh, 11th grade. I have a younger daughter at Francis Carpentine Elementary School. She's 6th grade. She's 10 years old. So, you know, I gotta put them through school. So I gotta get some money in my. And uh, but what I'm, what I may ultimately do,

00:43:04.830 - 00:43:25.320

I would like to get On the corporate board Taf position. Yeah, they don't have any blacks at that level as of now. That doesn't pan out, then I may go back to the feds. I can go in with the federal government. They'll give me credit for

00:43:25.320 - 00:43:41.989

my 20 years in the Air Force, uh, and I can go in and get a second retirement. GS what? I would go to no less than a GS 12. No less than just. John, what, what, what, what, what do you, how do you consider yourself as

00:43:41.989 - 00:44:09.300

a black man? I mean just as a black man, John Franklin, what is he? OK, I feel, my first obligation is not to uh. Job or cold, anything of this nature. My first obligation. To my family. These are my personal feelings. My second obligation is to

00:44:10.830 - 00:44:28.580

My people, black people. And then, you know, it just goes on around nature I feel. I feel proud to be a black. I feel like since I've come over to this station, I've accomplished something as small as may be, uh, you know, I, I, I play

00:44:28.580 - 00:44:48.459

a low profile. When I first came to the station, they had 6 blacks in. I don't take credit. At that time they had, uh, a young lady who was a reporter. Who, uh, Maria Claire. They had, uh, a young man who was reporting on radio, um,

00:44:48.860 - 00:45:07.479

Bill Covington. They had a young man, two young men in the mailroom, I think, and two secretaries that I call. Now they have 23 blacks. Some I got in the building. You're the highest ranking black on the station. From a standpoint of management, I guess you

00:45:07.479 - 00:45:29.560

could say. However, we have blacks now 2 in engineering, which is the first for the station. Have a projectionist, which is the first for the station. Have a weekend anchorman, which is a second for the station, as you recall, Mel Gibson's Weekend Anchorman back in '73

00:45:29.560 - 00:45:48.429

or 4. We have a black just came in from, I think it's Portsmouth, Virginia. Have a black who was in the mailroom, Melvin Core, started as a mailman. He's now on air reporter. Another black who was in the mailroom. Who also I recommended behind. He is

00:45:48.429 - 00:46:11.510

not a projectionist making maybe 5 times the salary as have another young man who came in the mirror room who is now in the school of engineering. With the station pane. His schooling, which is going to amount to 10, 0, I'll say between 5000 and $10,000.18

00:46:11.510 - 00:46:26.389

month period, plus created a job for him where he collected the same pay. In order to, uh, go to school. So this guy's getting paid while he's going, going to engineering school. It's gonna go on for like 18 months. The young man in the mail room

00:46:26.389 - 00:46:39.139

now has a chance. Uh, it's been discussed. I think he, he has a chance to move other places, you know, like I said, I play a low profile, but my, my thing to help my people is to get them in the door. I don't give a

00:46:39.139 - 00:46:56.429

damn how they get in the door. As long as I get them in here, then they have a chance to move. We have some young ladies who come in on the switchboard. One of them now, who, young lady, um, she's a Chicano. Maria, uh, Pacino, she

00:46:56.429 - 00:47:12.709

came in on switchboard. Now she is the, um, head financial clerk in the business office. So, you know, things have really changed. They have a young man over here now, the general manager real Greek now and I've never seen anybody like him. This guy, when this

00:47:12.709 - 00:47:31.540

guy first came to the station in '74, he told me, he said, when I leave here, I'm gonna have in excess. Of what's required by FCC, uh, you know, the requirement of the minorities employment. What type of problems have you, uh, have you received in regards

00:47:31.540 - 00:47:59.379

to, um, um, um, FCC licensing, um, from pressure organizations within the community? OK, strangely enough, the first FCC FCC license, uh, the station went through. Which I was involved uh with the ascertainment community the needs. This station license wasn't challenged it being challenged now? That we

00:47:59.379 - 00:48:17.580

don't know, um, it hasn't been challenged yet because, you know, the time span like they submit the request in 1 October, I think, and the license was granted in January, you see, so. This station from an employment standpoint is in a super position. Are, are they,

00:48:17.639 - 00:48:33.739

are they receiving any pressures from the community or no? None whatsoever at this particular time SA 20 or NAACP is challenging at this particular time. What do you attribute that to? Do you attribute that to your own, um, Like I said, I play, play a low

00:48:33.739 - 00:48:53.219

profile. I attribute that to Ro Grignon in part because this guy has done, has gone beyond the call of duty, to be fair, with, uh, all people, minorities including me. He's the man responsible for raising the employment from 6 to 23. When, when did your show

00:48:53.219 - 00:49:11.060

come on? Originally, I used to come on Sundays at 5 o'clock. Now, to take advantage of Many fans hopefully will watch the new James Brown show. Have you seen the, the, uh, Future Shock? OK, I come on at 5 o'clock, which is a direct lead-in from

00:49:11.060 - 00:49:31.620

James Brown's show to my show, and it's prior to the, uh, Um, national news, it's the best public service, uh, time in, in, in Kansas City Marsh by far. Well, I'd like to thank you for the interview, John. I my pleasure, Pete. I hope to interview

00:49:31.620 - 00:49:49.820

you again, perhaps in 5 years and see if you still have the enthusiasm that you have now, you know. Hopefully, then I will. Uh, have migrated to vice president of the TF. Wow. Is there any possibility of you migrating back to Louisiana? No way, brother. Ain't

00:49:49.820 - 00:50:03.590

nothing happening. No way. Oh yeah, I go by and visit every 2 or 3 years. You, your parents, do they come up here very often? Uh, yes, my mother was here. Um, well, I have two sets of parents too. My, the parents who are related to

00:50:03.889 - 00:50:22.949

through my Uh, early adult life, both deceased and I think I told you this in 1974, but my real mother, uh, and father have been here. In fact, my, my, my mother was here, uh, this summer. She spent, uh, like six weeks with me. Thank you

00:50:22.949 - 00:50:24.360

very much. Thank you, Pete.