00:00:13.550 - 00:00:34.180

be. Um, good morning. Good morning. Uh, I'm going to start by asking you some personal data about yourself, and you can tell me your name, uh, where you were born, and a few other personal items. Just anything that comes to mind. Um, OK, sure. Uh, thanks,

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Joe. I'm Leah Ruth Russell, uh, born here in Kansas City, Kansas at KU Hospital, but I grew up in, uh, the black area of Westport. Uh, so I'm from Kansas City and my family is here and, uh, I'm 48 years old now. Um, went to Westport

00:00:54.130 - 00:01:13.110

High School, Allen Elementary School, and, uh, just lived, grew, grew up basically here in town. And can you tell me something about, uh, your parents, uh, where they may have come from, or did they grow up in the Kansas City area? Um, I've been doing a

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lot of research, as you know, it's where you and I met, uh, when I started researching my family, uh, which has its origins out there in Westport and, um, 11 of the things that I learned about my father's family was uh that he was from Forest

00:01:29.940 - 00:01:46.599

Green, Missouri. And, um, his parents would have been in that area, uh, probably around the Civil War, and so I've been trying to research and follow that a little bit and not quite gotten there yet. The, the, uh, grandmother has this odd name that traces back

00:01:46.599 - 00:02:04.480

to Virginia and, uh, the grandfather, um, I'm not exactly sure where he's from, although the census, uh, material has been providing, you know, a lot of help and aiding me that way. Um. My father was born, he's a, he was an old dad when, when he

00:02:04.480 - 00:02:22.630

met my, when he met my mom, he was an older man. He was actually born in 19, I'm sorry, in 1897. And I do know that uh by the 1900 or it's 1900 census, I believe, the address that was given and he was 2 years old,

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2 or 3 years old, was 503 West Forty-Third Terrace, which was the Steptoe Street. And um, now what about you you mentioned your mother, uh, and your parents uh what kind of employment did they have? Um, I, I've, I trace things a lot back on my

00:02:46.960 - 00:02:58.520

father's side because I know that he was here a lot longer and let me just add that on, on his side of the family that um it, it was really interesting to learn. One of the things that I learned through, I'm not sure which records because

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I've done a lot of research and all the record keeping around Kansas City, but I did learn that his father, uh Charles Fenton Russell, and my parents' names, by the way, were Karina Faye. Davis was her maiden name, Karina Faye Russell and Charles Lemuel Russell, and

00:03:16.970 - 00:03:33.919

Charles Lemuel Russell's father was Charles Fenton Russell and Charles Fenton Russell built the house that I grew up in, uh, which would have been built. I, I'm not exactly sure around the turn of the century. Um, Uh, he built that house and the house that was

00:03:33.919 - 00:03:56.000

on, on the corner on the, would have been the, the, the southwest corner of Forty-Third Terrace and Washington Street, uh, and then the house that was on Washington next to that. And I have learned also that Charles Fenton's parents lived on Main Street and I tried

00:03:56.000 - 00:04:08.899

to drive through there, uh, right about 41st and Main. I'm not sure what it was looking like it when they were living there and I, I, it's probably 1890 census that I was looking at, but Patrick and Lucinda Russell. So that, that's my dad's side. But

00:04:08.899 - 00:04:30.670

my mother um was a musician. Uh, actually, she and my father, both professional musicians, uh, they met while she was in college. He was teaching music at, uh, Western Baptist Bible College. And, uh, her, she, her family is from, uh, Springfield, Missouri. And uh she came

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up here to go to school. They, they were married and then had, had 5 girls, Rebecca, Deborah, Miriam, me, Leah, and Naomi. And we lived there. That's where we grew up until uh until my mother died in 19, in the middle of the 70s and then

00:04:47.559 - 00:05:01.920

we moved across town. And you recall the address? 503 West 43rdd Terrace. Actually, I was trying to think of the phone number. I think it was Plaza 37,350. I think that was her phone number when we were growing up in that house. Now, you mentioned, uh,

00:05:02.119 - 00:05:20.700

uh, someone, uh, living on, on Main. Now, uh, when you were growing up. Were there's uh boundaries as um and maybe uh segregated schools or schools or what was the situation of integration and segregation at this time? I have, I have, as I said, 4 other

00:05:20.700 - 00:05:35.079

sisters. Two of them, uh, are 10 years older than the other set of 3 of us, and that my two older sisters, Rebecca and Deborah, did go to Penn school, uh, probab pro. Um, I, I can't, I don't know the dates and I'm sorry I don't

00:05:35.079 - 00:05:52.410

have those, but they went there for a while and then transitioned after segregation. I, I and my other two siblings that are a year over and under me, uh, went to Allen Elementary School. Uh, and, um, but that's, that's where we, we did our full, uh,

00:05:52.609 - 00:06:09.890

elementary school education. Now, what about, um, um, people in the neighborhood who might have lived on the right side of your home, the left side, and maybe across the street? Oh, Joe, I know so much more than that. It's so funny. Uh, let, let me go

00:06:09.890 - 00:06:23.970

back to your question about boundaries because I got on the school thing, if that's OK? Is that all right? Uh, the, the area that we grew up in, it probably had a, a greater appreciation for the, uh, makeup and the, the character of that area after

00:06:23.970 - 00:06:36.170

you left. When we were growing up in, in, uh, what we called Westport, that's what we knew it as, and, and people who were from Kansas City, Kansas or people who were from the east side of town, that's also what they called it out in Westport.

00:06:36.709 - 00:06:55.470

Uh, there were probably about. equivalent of about 66 blocks, 6 square blocks of, of black families that lived in that area and the boundaries were, uh, I think that street is Warnell, the, the one that runs in front of Saint Luke's Hospital, is that what that

00:06:55.470 - 00:07:07.959

is? Uh Warnell Street on that end and then Summit on the, on the other and then there were, there were a lot of uh Uh, Hispanics, I believe they're all Mexicans that were moving in about the time I was growing up that lived up on the

00:07:07.959 - 00:07:31.839

Summit area and maybe a little bit south of that in toward our neighborhood, but then the other boundaries were Um Just, uh, just north of, excuse me, just north of, uh, Forty-third Street, and then, To my recollection, 44th, 44th Street. So, so 43rd Terrace between, between

00:07:31.839 - 00:07:48.420

Washington and Pennsylvania really were about the center of, of uh the center of Westport and then you had it, you had it out for about two blocks every direction. Um, I, I do remember that when I was a child, there's a parking lot that's, that's on

00:07:48.420 - 00:08:02.359

the Let me get my directions together. That's on the east side of Washington between Forty-third Terrace and Forty-Fourth Street. And when I was a child, that, that parking lot, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure there may actually may be a building there now, but when I was

00:08:02.359 - 00:08:16.410

a child, that, that, that area was uh full of houses of black families and um Uh, I was just talking to, uh, my, one of my sisters on the way down here. We were trying to make sure I could recollect people's names and what have you

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and asked her, there was a family there, I believe their name was Smith, who lost a child during one of the floodings of Brush Creek. And shortly after that, a lot of those homes were sold and I think Saint Luke's Hospital took that property over except

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for Mrs. Phillips' house. Miss Phillips's house was up in the corner and she kept that property forever and ever and ever. I'm not sure how they ever got it. And then that was in the corner and then Ms. Addie's house was on the opposite corner and

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Miss Addie, of course, was a A gentle old lady that as little children, we've certainly didn't have a good appreciation for because uh we played baseball every day during the summer in that parking lot and usually once a month we break one of her windows in

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her house. So, so uh she called, she called the cops on us a lot and we're not sure that we liked her, although I'm sure she was a sweet woman. She was a sweet woman and um I'm sorry, I, I, I'm not sure what the follow-up

00:09:08.979 - 00:09:23.510

question was on that. Well, you talked about people living on uh oh on either side of me. Um There's so many families. I was um talking to my sister and I, and my son was bringing me down here. So many families and one of the things

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that was remarkable, remarkable about that neighborhood was that you knew everybody. And, and as a child I knew everybody's, I mean, I thought I knew everybody and I'm sure, I'm sure I don't exactly, but, you know, so as a child, if I know so many people,

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I know my parents knew them all, and, uh, and a matter of fact, I know my mother used to, actually a lot of people in the neighborhood used to make a big thing about Christmas and taking little tiny gifts or just, I mean, they, they're a

00:09:52.530 - 00:10:07.809

little tiny in terms of their value, but maybe not their, their meaning, but they take them and share them around the neighborhood during Christmas time and what have you, but On the, on one side of me lived the Sears family, uh, that had girls and boys.

00:10:07.880 - 00:10:24.330

We were very good friends with them, their parents. Uh, then next to them was the Jacksons, next to them was the Harrises, next to them was the presidents, and then on the corner of Forty-third Terrace in Pennsylvania was a professor whose name escapes me. Um, next

00:10:24.330 - 00:10:37.530

to him on the, that street, I don't remember that family, but then it was the Johnson's and then it was the alley, that alley that actually ran back behind my house. Then there was a, a white lady who lived on the corner who had grapes growing

00:10:37.530 - 00:10:52.369

on her fence. Um, then if you go around the block, uh, you turn the corner, then it was the Smiths, and that gentleman was a police officer, probably one of the 1st, 1st black police officers. I'm not sure about that, but his wife taught at Penn

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School. Uh, don't know the rest of the people who lived on that street because I think that they, they were white and we really didn't associate except, except at school, really, uh, with other white families in that neighborhood that I know of. I didn't. But as

00:11:08.599 - 00:11:23.119

you come down, back down the Washington Street, then there was the Locke family and then there was the alley again, and then there was the house that my grandfather built, although I'm not sure who was living in it. And then on the corner of West Forty-Thirdd

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Terrace in Washington was Uncle Tenny. Now, through my research, I have learned that Uncle Timny was actually my father's sister's son, so he's actually my first cousin. I grew up all this time not knowing that. Um, uh, so that was one of the things that I

00:11:40.309 - 00:11:55.630

have learned and, um, through the course of trying to recall who lived out in that area, there are a number of people that have that last name Smith, and it just makes me, you, you know, more curious and, and more, uh, Uh, determined to finish that

00:11:55.630 - 00:12:11.190

research and try and find those familial connections. Uh, then across the street was the Turners, then there was Uncle Harry. I think Uncle Harry's name was Mr. Smith also, and then there was, uh, Mr. and Mrs. Arott, a couple of vacant houses. I'm not sure who

00:12:11.190 - 00:12:24.570

lived on that corner, but as you turn the corner northbound. Then Mary Louise Hinton lived there, crossed that alley, then it was Beulah Smith. And I, I, that, that was getting pretty far away because Forty-third Street was a busy street and as a child, we, you

00:12:24.570 - 00:12:45.020

know, we didn't, we weren't allowed to hang out much over there, but Ms. Robinson was uh over there. There was a Jamaican family there whose, the name escapes me right now. And, uh, the Miles family, um, Ms. Howard, Adams, Avery, uh, Johnson, um, The tallies, uh,

00:12:45.059 - 00:12:58.760

the Gans, the Gibsons, it just goes on and on. And then my older sisters, as, uh, this, this, uh, diagram that you have behind me, I did get a copy of this from the Landmarks commission and we were sitting down one day going over it and

00:12:59.140 - 00:13:16.659

they could, we could basically about line it all out who lived where, at least, uh, when they were growing up, which would have been Um, probably about the 60s, early, late 50s, 1960. Now you mentioned, uh, you all played baseball and then you mentioned, uh, Christmas.

00:13:17.059 - 00:13:32.159

So can you add to that, uh, maybe, uh, uh, summertime, uh, Christmas, uh, and Halloween. What kind of activities did y'all have for fun? Well, it was a really safe area to be in, and, you know, just like a lot of communities back in the day,

00:13:32.619 - 00:13:45.559

uh, you were able to leave your house and leave the doors open and And not worry about it if you weren't home. So the kids pretty much had free, free reign and, and as I was saying between where I lived in front of my house was

00:13:45.559 - 00:14:02.380

probably like the most interior section on that block. So when the kids would gather, that was probably the safest place for them to be in terms of traffic and nobody, you know, uh nobody being around to impede their fun. Uh, so we, a lot of fun

00:14:02.380 - 00:14:17.739

was going on out in the street and we used to play a lot of, uh, um, I don't know what you call them, they were just group games, uh, like, uh, Mother May I and Red Light, Green Light and, uh, Punchinella and All those sorts of

00:14:17.739 - 00:14:28.140

things. I can't, I can't think of all the, oh, pies. I don't know if you know that game, but the boys, I, I, I'd have to explain it to you. You have to be able to run really fast and it's not good to play with boys

00:14:28.140 - 00:14:45.729

because they, they could always catch you, but pies and, and things like that. So we do that in the evening after school, probably almost daily and definitely on the weekends. Uh, we played softball and baseball up in that, excuse me. Up in that parking lot, um,

00:14:47.070 - 00:15:03.710

Every day during summer and uh during the summer. Um, some of the kids had, uh, sufficient funds to, uh, to have bicycles and, and so they, they'd ride their bikes. Uh, uh, I, we didn't. And then of course, a lot of the families, the parents were

00:15:03.710 - 00:15:17.700

real protective of the kids and so you really couldn't, even if you had a bike, you really weren't supposed to be off your street. Um, There were, there were a lot of children in the neighborhood and I say the numbers probably range from any given day

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or night from anywhere from about 15 to 30 and one of the things that uh we used to do was uh go up to, and I didn't even get up the other street, but Miss June's house, and she lived on the, Miss June lived on the

00:15:33.419 - 00:15:49.950

southwest corner of 43rd Terrace in Pennsylvania. Uh, in a beautiful gray, she had this beautiful gray brick, uh, wall around her property. It's kind of set up on the hill, but that was a great wall to, you know, come and sit on and hang out and,

00:15:49.989 - 00:16:00.950

and where we could hang out and I'm sure she didn't appreciate it very much, but it was a very popular place. Of course, you know, I could only stay as long as the, as long as the street lights weren't on and some of the other kids

00:16:00.950 - 00:16:16.630

too and would often see my mom coming up the street if it got too dark because she really didn't want us hanging out like that. Uh, so, um, As we got older, a lot of the girls were involved in some extracurricular things at, uh, high school,

00:16:16.710 - 00:16:33.729

so we were cheering and everything and that, you know, as, as the property, uh, you know, some houses started going away or disappearing, we'd often use those to turn flips in and, and that sort of thing, but it was a The Givans, Cheryl Givhan, uh, she

00:16:33.729 - 00:16:47.330

was a couple of years older than me, which was significant when I was young, you know, uh, in middle school or what have you, that age. But, but Cheryl's parents used to let her throw parties and they had this nice brick, uh, patio and she always

00:16:47.330 - 00:17:01.159

had some really cool forty-fives to play and we used to go do the latest dances and Uh, that was, that was, that was always really fun and pretty cool too. Now you mentioned the latest dances of the period and maybe some of the songs were they?

00:17:02.039 - 00:17:22.319

Oh, the, the dances. Oh my goodness. Probably the first dance that I can remember thinking I knew how to do was the pony, I think, and I was just a baby then. Uh, no, maybe, yeah, yeah, and then there, there was the Four corners, um. Mashed

00:17:22.319 - 00:17:41.729

potatoes, uh. I don't, I don't, I'm trying the monkey I guess and That's an interesting question. I hadn't even thought about that. Uh, the music was um. You know, we probably um listen to a lot of what my older sisters listened to. They were 10 years

00:17:41.729 - 00:17:56.339

older than me, as I said, and, and they had the resources to buy music or to get it somehow. We had a record player, so they were listening to, um, you know, Otis Redding, uh, Aretha Franklin. Probably about the time I was coming up, I, I

00:17:56.339 - 00:18:19.920

was more into Michael Jackson, the Temptations, uh, you know, Delphonic, Shy Lights, all that, all that, that, that genre. And from the devil's music to the church. There were 2 churches in the neighborhood. Tell me about what you know about them. Saint James and Saint Luke's

00:18:19.920 - 00:18:38.109

AME. Um, I'll talk about Saint Luke's, uh, first because I know I have a little bit more personal history with that. My father, as I mentioned, he was a, uh, he, my father was a, a vocal, uh, musician, artist, and he actually traveled around the country

00:18:38.109 - 00:18:55.339

with the uh Jackson Jubilee Singers. Uh, so, uh, he directed choirs at Pleasant Green with Pleasant Green Baptist Church, which was on the east side of town for a while and then after he and my mother were married, he started going to Saint Luke's A&E and

00:18:55.339 - 00:19:07.079

he was the choir director there. So he did the music programs and when they, when they were doing something really special. And he needed some special help. Uh, my mother would come up and work the, either the organ or the piano for him. She was quite

00:19:07.079 - 00:19:23.449

a prodigy and, and he had a lovely voice. His family, they were musicians. His sister played the, his sister played the violin and his mother also played the piano too. So, uh, we have real musical history. I remember being in a Tom Thumb wedding in um

00:19:24.229 - 00:19:42.209

In Saint Luke's Church in uh Reverend, um, uh, Counts, Koontz, Counts, uh, said he has some pictures and I haven't gotten those from his wife yet, but, uh, of the, of that wedding and so we went to that church periodically. Uh, my mother was Baptist, so

00:19:42.489 - 00:19:56.709

we pretty much stayed, uh, at a, stayed going to, um, Pleasant Valley Baptist Church which is over in Kansas City, Kansas, which is also another Uh, it's on a historic register's churches. This year, I think it's 125 years old, but it was built by that neighborhood

00:19:56.709 - 00:20:11.250

over there in Rosedale, black folks. Um, Saint James. Um, what I know about Saint James is a little bit limited. I wish my older sisters were here because they knew all the people that were going to go, that, that went to that church. I do know

00:20:11.250 - 00:20:25.349

that for both churches, a lot of the people that, that attended those churches were coming from outside the neighborhood, and so they were coming from other places and didn't necessarily live there. Saint James used to have wonderful summer programs. They have a full, full six week

00:20:25.349 - 00:20:39.709

long uh uh Bible, what do you call it, summer camp, summer Bible school for kids in the summer. And uh we go there and play games and eat food and just have a great time in the summertime during the day while your parents are at work

00:20:39.709 - 00:20:56.540

and they knew you were safe someplace. So it's an easy place to walk to because it was just a, just a block away. Um The Reverend Singletary, I think, was the pastor there at that time, but my mother really, I mean, she was really heavily involved

00:20:56.540 - 00:21:14.739

in music in churches, but she never played there at all and I'm thinking, uh, my sisters and I sing a lot together and I don't recall myself. I don't recall singing in that church. Uh, at some point, uh, I was about 14 years old, whatever year

00:21:14.739 - 00:21:32.510

that was, uh, the Youth, uh, YEC or whatever they used to call the group that gave kids sub-minimum wage jobs during the summer. They came and operated out of the church, out of the church basement for a couple of years. So, uh, you know, the church

00:21:32.510 - 00:21:45.310

was a I mean, even though I didn't attend it, it was a staple and a, and a substantial part of my life because it was there and it was a solid, it was a solid core of, you know, piece of what, what was going on in

00:21:45.310 - 00:22:03.719

my community. Uh, we mentioned two institutions and that's the two churches. Uh, Saint Luke's Hospital is in that neighborhood. Uh, do you recall, uh, many people, uh, working there or being a part of that institution? I do recall, uh, Miss June, uh. Miss June used to

00:22:03.719 - 00:22:18.920

walk down, she lived on the corner of West Forty-third Terrace and Penn and Miss June used to walk down the middle of our street on her way to work every day in this crisp white uniform with the crisp white hat on. She looks so in her

00:22:18.920 - 00:22:35.000

white stockings and her big old orthopedic white shoes. Uh. But uh she worked there for a long time and I, I, I mean just, I remember that as a small child, so she's got to be one of the first uh uh African-Americans that worked there too.

00:22:35.079 - 00:22:53.109

I think maybe as a nurse perhaps. Uh but also Miss Sears, uh, Joella Sears. I think she was a nurse's aide or, or an LPN working down there at the hospital, um, and I don't recall that uh I don't recall that there were other, a lot

00:22:53.109 - 00:23:06.510

of other people in the neighborhood that were working there, but Miss June, I mean, we knew where she was going every day. We did as kids, uh, probably about 10, we're 10 years old, 1112 years old maybe, used to go down to Saint Luke's, uh, to

00:23:06.510 - 00:23:19.000

the hospital part, not to the pink and white building, not to the office building, but we used to go there to the cafeteria, go to the vending machines. It was nice and air-conditioned. We'd ride the elevators, we'd, uh, We'd uh be in the hospital every now

00:23:19.000 - 00:23:36.130

and then, so it was a little bit of a, a reprieve for us to be down at the hospital too. And during this time, did you know, did, uh, was Saint Luke's receiving African Americans as patients here? I do know, I do know that um I

00:23:36.130 - 00:23:48.489

was, we were riding, riding my, uh my sister was riding me on one of the guys' bikes when they were playing football in that parking lot I was telling you about. We're riding in the parking lot of the pink and white building and my foot got

00:23:48.489 - 00:24:07.150

caught in the spokes. I was probably about 7 years old, which would have been With that. 65, I guess, 60, something like that, 66. And uh and I had a really nasty open wound and I believe at that point, of course that was passed, segregation was

00:24:07.150 - 00:24:20.270

done then but they, I was treated at the hospital at that time. Prior to that, I mean, I was born in, in uh in Wyandot County at KU because that was an open hospital for African-Americans that was in, in the year, you know, when I was

00:24:20.270 - 00:24:39.430

born but um I, that's, that's, that's what I recollect about. Now, when my, when my mother passed away in the early 70s, she was at Menorah and um my dad, my dad wasn't there. So I don't, I don't, I don't really recall. Well, before we go

00:24:39.430 - 00:25:04.689

to your, um, Uh, sort of advanced education and professional career, uh, who in the neighborhood inspired you to want to, uh, finish school, become a professional, and make a contribution to uh your community? I had, um, pro probably more than anybody was my parents and my

00:25:04.689 - 00:25:25.030

family, um. I just don't want to answer that too quickly. Um, I'd, I'd say that and then there were, there were a couple of people, a few people. The first African-Americans that were, uh, that were at Allen Elementary School probably made a huge difference in my

00:25:25.030 - 00:25:45.130

life too. Uh, Mr. Ford, don't recall his first name, but he was my 7th grade teacher and the first African-American teacher, teacher who I saw. Um, Uh, but I, but we really excelled. He had very, very high expectations and, uh, Um, But, you know, my mother

00:25:45.130 - 00:26:00.010

had a lot of friends in the neighborhood, uh, women that she was really close to, Miss Robinson, who lived on Forty-third Street, and then, uh, Miss Buford who lived on the corner of Forty-third Street and Washington. They were, they were also always real supportive, always, you

00:26:00.010 - 00:26:12.770

know, it was one of those, uh, the African proverb, it takes a village to raise a child, so everybody was always in your business and everybody was always looking out for you, making sure you did the right thing. Uh, but between my family and the women

00:26:12.770 - 00:26:32.469

in the neighborhood, Uh, those are probably, probably my strongest influences, yeah. Now after um school that, uh, Allen, what was the next steps in your educational career? Uh, the next steps was to attend high school and, and, and the three of us, uh, the, my three

00:26:32.469 - 00:26:47.160

sisters that are close to those that are closest to me, we went to Westport High School. Uh, my, my father passed away when I was a girl in grade school, and, uh, it wasn't long after I was in high school when my mother passed away. Uh,

00:26:47.280 - 00:27:00.810

but we. We went to Westport, walked every day, uh, walked, uh, what, you know, what kids now would think was a long way. I told, uh, I told my son we're gonna have to drive that to see if it's even 1 mile. I, I probably when

00:27:00.810 - 00:27:13.959

I was a kid I thought it was about 3 or 4 miles but We used to cut through every, every, uh, every nook and cranny to try and make the, the walk shorter and I remember that we used to walk past, um, the butter factory. I'm

00:27:13.959 - 00:27:28.079

not sure if that factory actually made butter or not, but that's how we knew it was the butter factory and, uh, through, by the uh plat, the cleaners that was up on the corner, that's there in the Westport Shopping District now and then across Broadway, when

00:27:28.079 - 00:27:41.290

we got up to Main Street, we go through Katz which is now Osco's, but Uh, Katz was the owner of that, uh, that store before Osco had it, and I, I remember that Mrs. Katz and my mother were in the hospital room at the same time.

00:27:41.969 - 00:28:00.069

Um, and then get on to school and, uh, it was a really good experience. Westport High School probably had the most diverse, uh, racially diverse, uh, populations of kids in, in the city and, um, I think that, uh, that definitely gave you some advantages in terms

00:28:00.069 - 00:28:15.739

of, uh, making sure you could get along and understand other cultures and, you know, striking out with a purpose and a goal, not trying to deal with what everybody's doing around you, so. Uh, we had a good time in high school and uh. And, and graduated

00:28:15.739 - 00:28:33.300

from Westport, yeah. All of us, actually all of my sisters did. Every single one of us. Now my two older sisters, um, I'm not sure at what point they went from Penn school to, uh, to either Allen, maybe the last, maybe the 6th and 7th grade

00:28:33.300 - 00:28:48.930

at Allen school uh before, you know, until they went to Westport, but they, you know, we all had a great time in school. Now did you uh uh sisters ever talk about the uh classes at Penn School? Yes, they did. Uh, what did they say about,

00:28:48.969 - 00:29:02.849

I wish they were here because you, you probably really be interested in what they had to say too. But, uh, one of the things that they are really proud of and, and, and this is not to um put anyone down or anything, but as they transitioned

00:29:02.849 - 00:29:15.699

over to the other schools, they, they said because of the education they were receiving at Penn that they were reading circles and, and doing a math around all the other kids that were in their grades after they went to mainstream schools, so Uh, I think that

00:29:15.699 - 00:29:27.900

they got a really good education. It was a lot of it was open, uh, and the teachers pushed you and let you go as fast and as far as you could, as soon as you could. So, uh, I think that You know, I mean, I just

00:29:27.900 - 00:29:46.500

like the idea of, of having people who are in and of your neighborhood and your stock, uh, educating you because I think that they're gonna do, um, not, not to the, not, not to, to, to, uh, anyone else's, um, uh, disregard, but I think that they'll

00:29:46.500 - 00:30:03.729

do a really good job in making sure that the people around them, um, uh, have the best and strive for the best and get the best that they actually can. Now, after Westport, so, um college career, uh college career, I was an early mother, so I

00:30:03.729 - 00:30:18.050

was uh uh actually, actually after my mom died was when we moved out of Westport and that would have been in the uh early to mid 70s, 73, I think, 72 or 73. And she died and we moved across town to the east side, so we

00:30:18.050 - 00:30:35.229

were actually transferring back to Westport to go to school. Uh we kept the house for a long time. um But, but I was, uh, I was an early mom, so I got married and I, my college education was, uh, while I was raising kids and raising

00:30:35.229 - 00:30:51.890

a family and, and, uh, you know, raising, you know, taking care of a household and what have you, but, uh, it was at UMKC Bachelor's of, uh, Bachelor's of, of, uh, Science and Administration. And, um, uh, that's another great institution in, uh, in, in Kansas City.

00:30:51.949 - 00:31:08.849

Uh, what, uh. What are some of the most favorite remembrance of coming out of Westport right now before we go on to maybe some other things? Um, you know, one of the things that, that I, I really didn't mention was that, uh, the plaza lighting and

00:31:08.849 - 00:31:21.589

the, and, you know, during at, at, at, at Thanksgiving and it's something that we were so, we were so close to the plaza that, you know, after dinner. We put on our coats and we just walk down the street, you know, check it out and we

00:31:21.589 - 00:31:34.469

go back home. But now it's like, you know, a quarter of a million people and they, you know, the, the plaza was, uh, uh, back then it was, you know, there was a grocery store down there. There was a, a bowling alley. There was a 5

00:31:34.469 - 00:31:46.060

and Dime store. So whenever we had money, we'd go down to 5 and Dime store and buy a little cheap little diamond rings and pretend like we had really had some nice jewelry or something. Uh, and my mother always used to send us down there to

00:31:46.060 - 00:31:57.010

Pooches to, she'd give us a, a little bit of money and she said, you girls need to learn how to go out and eat and, and behave yourselves. So you go down there and have lunch and And so we used to do that quite frequently too,

00:31:57.130 - 00:32:08.790

uh, eat at Pooch's cafeteria. There were 3 on the plaza, but, uh, you know, going down to the plaza, hanging out was fun until I got priced out of it. I can't, it's, it's pretty expensive to be down there. But you know I have to have

00:32:08.790 - 00:32:22.670

an appreciation for that whole, uh, lighting ceremony because my nieces and nephews thinks it's really hype but you know, we were doing it when we were kids and it really wasn't that big of a deal. Uh. That's probably, that's probably one of, one of the best

00:32:22.670 - 00:32:34.550

memories. The other, the other things were just playing with the kids and just a safe environment and, and all your friends and all the people that were around you and just being there. One of the things that I was thinking about was that the, the, the

00:32:34.550 - 00:32:47.640

entire time that I lived in Westport, I never saw a police car in my neighborhood ever except for one time and I think that and I'm not gonna say the name because I think I know who it was too, but Uh, somebody had stolen a bicycle

00:32:47.819 - 00:33:00.010

and the police came, you know, they didn't have the lights on or anything, but they came down our street. But except for that time, uh, there was no trouble in our neighborhood. Uh, you know, we had, we had a couple of people who, who liked to,

00:33:00.339 - 00:33:13.660

to hit the bottle a little bit and, and you had those things that are, every community has, but Uh, it was a it was a safe place to be. The girls that lived next door to us were our very same age, so it was nice to

00:33:13.660 - 00:33:27.479

have someone, you know, uh, kids. Um, then, then high school years were really great too. We got to do a lot of things. Now you mentioned one thing about the plaza that, uh, many people know, and it's the lighting, but they also have an Easter parade.

00:33:27.560 - 00:33:37.079

Did you get a chance? Oh yeah, I forgot all about that. Oh, and then, and then the Royals parade. I meant to tell you about that too, but the Easter parade, yeah, we used to, and I have a picture of that. I wish I had brought

00:33:37.079 - 00:33:46.630

it with me, but we used to go down there in our Easter getup and of course my mom used to dress us all in the same outfit, but ride the little, they'd have rides and then they have, they have. parade and have rides and you can

00:33:46.630 - 00:33:59.310

get snow cones and what have you and we'd do that and that was always real fun, but we, Easter was probably more hype at church though. I, I, I enjoyed it better there. But the other thing that I really looked forward to was the American Royal

00:33:59.310 - 00:34:11.989

Parade because it wasn't just downtown. They used to take the parade and I'm not sure where it came from, but it used to come through Forty-third and Broadway so we could just walk a couple blocks down to Broadway and watch the, watch the parade and that

00:34:11.989 - 00:34:30.780

was, that was really wonderful too. Now, did your parents, uh, permit you to go down to, 18th and Vine? No, we couldn't, we OK, they might have been gone at the time too. I remember driving, well, I remember going on that side of town. We were

00:34:30.780 - 00:34:46.229

on our way someplace uh and uh I saw a woman with really red lipstick standing in the doorway of a store and this man leaned over and gave her one right on the lips and I was just so shocked. Because we weren't really exposed to a

00:34:46.229 - 00:34:58.389

lot of that, so no, we really weren't, I didn't know a lot about the east side of town, really at all. Uh, you know, we kind of stuck. We've shopped at Kroger's up on Forty-third Street in the Old Westport Shopping Center which is up on Forty-third

00:34:58.389 - 00:35:18.489

Street and was Westport Road and, and Summit, I guess it's uh where the um the uh old Wagon is. Uh, we shopped in that area, uh, but that's, that's where we mostly did our shopping. Um. Did you hear of men working at Manor Bakery and maybe

00:35:18.989 - 00:35:36.679

uh I heard some of the people were chauffeurs or oh yeah, they, a lot of the guys were, I, I know that a couple of people worked at Manor Bakery uh because some someone used to bring us. The day old. Goods and whatever, whatever they happen

00:35:36.679 - 00:35:50.030

to be. Uh, my dad, I meant to mention that to you, he actually worked at the Elms. He was one of the drivers and although I did not benefit from this, um, my sister said that the family that he worked for, which was the Dirks, um,

00:35:50.040 - 00:36:07.840

who I'm still trying to locate, uh, that, that family used to let him Keep the car. So that was a really um It was a really elitist type of job because you always had, you know, when they were getting rid of their furniture or clothes or

00:36:07.840 - 00:36:22.110

whatever they had, it was really, you know, these people were wealthy, so, um, the drivers and the people who worked there at the Elms, uh, uh, got to benefit from that and keep some of those things. And then they owned, you know, they owned, um, you

00:36:22.110 - 00:36:35.560

know, various stores and things so they give, give them some discounts if they needed to buy things. But he was a driver there, not when I was growing up. When I was growing up, Uh, he, he, he, he did a lot of different jobs probably after

00:36:35.560 - 00:36:50.840

he wasn't singing and one of the things that I remember was that he was a janitor at Garrett Hall and Garrett Hall was a dance hall, I think, and I remember that they said my dad always used to dance with all the ladies who were, who

00:36:50.840 - 00:37:06.429

didn't have anybody and they were just all wallflowers because he felt real bad for them, so he was a real sweet guy. Um, but, uh, he was there and, um, And bartending maybe there too, and that place is up on uh Broadway in the Valentine area.

00:37:06.510 - 00:37:24.909

It, it, it, it, it, it became the attic and then I'm not sure exactly sure what it is today, but it's still there. Uh yeah. Now, um, marriage included, uh, how many children? The marriage. My parents' marriage. Oh, my marriage, uh, includes 4 children. I have,

00:37:25.050 - 00:37:41.939

I have, uh, uh, I have a daughter, 2 boys, and a girl. The last child graduated from college about a year ago, so. So, uh, I have, I have moved in, in my attempt to, to help them grow more. I've moved away. So I'm in, uh,

00:37:42.419 - 00:37:59.959

I'm a, I'm a, I'm in Atlanta, Georgia now working for the Department of Transportation. Now, your career, um, uh, professional life. Begin right after college, uh, how did that start? No, no, actually I started, uh, working for UMKC. I, I had a couple of jobs that

00:37:59.959 - 00:38:14.479

I, uh, changed to, and everyone was progressively, uh, I mean, everyone was better. So, uh, then I went to work for the Department of Transportation. My goal always was to be an air traffic controller. Uh, but, but after I got in there as a clerk a

00:38:14.479 - 00:38:30.639

clerical person, uh, I was going to school all throughout my career, but I continued to excel. And grow and do great things, so I was always given opportunities and chances and, and, and, you know, they've let me do some great things. I've worked in Washington, been

00:38:30.639 - 00:38:51.629

in a fellows program, um, Uh, uh, now, right now, I'm, I'm the US Department of Transportation Secretary's representative in the Southeast region of the United States to assist FEMA and coordinate DOT, uh, resources when FEMA's responding to a disaster. So, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh,

00:38:51.639 - 00:39:07.800

August right now in middle of hurricane season, so we're really busy chasing and watching hurricanes and trying to see where they're gonna need us to help. What, what is it the, uh, a, a town of Westport. Uh, what would be some of the, uh, big cities

00:39:07.800 - 00:39:26.199

and maybe, uh, other places that you would just like to, uh, say to encourage kids to wanna be like you? Uh, I'm not, I'm not certain I understand the question. Are you, are you saying, uh. To, to, to, with you, with your job, uh, oh, with

00:39:26.199 - 00:39:44.239

my position, you traveled, yeah, extensively. Oh, some cities where they could go to really, um, I think that there's a lot of, a lot more opportunity and a lot more focus for young people, uh, today, uh, to have their own businesses and, and do some consulting

00:39:44.239 - 00:40:00.600

which requires some specialty. Uh, I have a, I have one of my children went to, uh, Mexico and studied at the International School for Business at Veracruz and so he's very fluent in Spanish and has just started a, a, um, a translation business, but you see

00:40:00.600 - 00:40:19.120

that requires great specialty in that area. So, I think that uh in terms of traveling to cities, There's so many wonderful things out there. I remember the first time I went to Washington DC, uh, coming out of my experiences in, in Westport, which was surrounded by

00:40:19.120 - 00:40:32.199

white folks and then, uh, going to Westport High School, which was a cultural mix and then UMKC and I lived in various places in Kansas City, but when I went to Washington DC and I saw all the black men in suits, I was really impressed with

00:40:32.199 - 00:40:47.120

that. Uh, so that, that's one place that I think people need to go. My, my, my young people, my daughter, you know, she, she likes Atlanta, that's, which is where I'm living now. I could take it or leave it. Um, but, uh, the, the South is

00:40:47.120 - 00:41:04.909

really good. Um, Washington DC and the East Coast, I think for somebody who really wants to be competitive and really, really move fast, it, it's probably a place to go, but, you know, it, consulting requires specialty so. Uh, I'd encourage people to, to finish school. Now,

00:41:04.929 - 00:41:20.110

on behalf of your sisters, uh, what, uh, have their careers been like? Um, our family, and, and Joe, and I'm gonna get back to that question, but it dawned on me while I was talking while you said some, one of the favorite things that we used

00:41:20.110 - 00:41:33.149

to do. We were so musical and, and the choir from church used to come over to our house. That was always a great memory because the music was always around you and so my mother would practice them, but also singing in church and then we're also

00:41:33.629 - 00:41:52.010

part of uh state music groups and we travel a lot around with school music so I just wanted to throw that in. Now. What was the question? What did you ask me? Oh, of my family. As I mentioned, I had been doing some research and, and,

00:41:52.179 - 00:42:08.409

and learned about the two sisters that my mother, that my, of my father's. They were both educators, which is really interesting to me because Excuse me, my mom became an educator or when my mom was an educator. She, she was a musician. She was part of

00:42:08.409 - 00:42:24.850

the musicians. It wasn't musicians, Mutual musicians fund at that time. It was a musician's protection, it's Musician's protection Group. I'm not sure what they call it, but same, same place now because she was playing at various places around town. But after that, uh, she, she went

00:42:24.850 - 00:42:42.419

back to school and got her teaching degree. Then my oldest sister, uh Rebecca, she teaches school. Uh, she's retired now. And the next one, Deborah, she, she, she taught school in middle school for a long time. Now she's a school administrator. Uh, she's, she's, she may

00:42:42.419 - 00:42:58.580

be retiring soon. Uh, my next sister, and then there's a ten-year gap and my next year sister Miriam has been, uh, working for the police department since, probably since she came out of, came out of high school. And then my youngest sister, Naomi, is, uh, she's

00:42:58.580 - 00:43:17.530

a, she's head of HR for a small company in Kansas City. I'm not sure, I'm not sure which one it is. So, um, now if you take a look back on, uh, again, growing up in Westport, your own career and, um, What would be the hope,

00:43:17.649 - 00:43:31.540

um, maybe in some of the dreams for some of the young people, I, I think it may be, uh, not many, but a few are still living in Westport. What would be some of your hopes and dreams for them and then, and, uh, children in general

00:43:31.850 - 00:43:47.060

for children in general. That they find peace, that as they grow to, to understand what, what it is that they want to do in life, that they find things that they, that they, that make them happy, that, that, you know, please them and that they, that

00:43:47.060 - 00:44:03.260

they have succe success and that, and that they have uh lived spiritual principles in their life which will, which will bring them some peace. Um, I do hope that um Through the work that you've done, Joe, and through, uh, some additional research that I do that

00:44:03.260 - 00:44:22.219

we can continue to bring, uh, more information to the work that we're doing arou around that area so that, uh, you know, we can, we can put, you know, put definitely down what, what the history was so people will know what, who was there and, and

00:44:22.219 - 00:44:37.310

where they came from and why they came and what was going on while they were, while they were there. Now, other than a book, I hope that you, uh, write and get published and this documentary, what are some of the other things that you think we

00:44:37.310 - 00:44:55.399

could do to help memorialize the Westport community? I know that, uh, annually there's a, a gathering at Loose Park was always another favorite memory. It's a park that's up on the other side of the plaza. Um, the, um, But the annual gathering would be really great.

00:44:55.520 - 00:45:12.040

I think that the, the work that Saint Luke's Hospital is doing with the churches and trying to try, uh, the, uh, Saint James, Saint James, uh, trying to get, uh, their, well, inform the congregation about what's going on and, and informing other people. Um, I'm not

00:45:12.040 - 00:45:28.350

sure of the roster of folks that you had for, uh, this particular interview session, but I think that the oral history is probably gonna be really good and to, to, to To, you know, put that in the archives and make that available. But I personally just

00:45:28.350 - 00:45:42.070

wanna research my family. I think that just in doing that and finding out more about, you know, Uncle Tenny who lived next door who was actually my first cousin and then some other people who were, who were named Smith that, that lived in the neighborhood, um,

00:45:42.439 - 00:45:58.270

that, that, that'll bring a lot of, uh, a lot of depth to the information too, just to research my own family that we'll, we'll probably learn a lot there. Now, uh, the things that I've learned from talking to you and others, it seems like the, I

00:45:58.270 - 00:46:19.899

won't call them homesteaders, but, uh, the roots of, uh, uh. Westport and the people that I've interviewed seem like they're very strong, strong enough to meet the challenges, you know, of this century. Uh, and overcome, you know, maybe some obstacles. What do you think that it

00:46:19.899 - 00:46:35.739

takes today to, to, to become somebody, raise a family, and, uh, do all the good things that we can do to help people, to help people in general. Well, I'll tell you this, uh, Joe, this, I, I have a, my youngest son, uh, battled a mental

00:46:35.739 - 00:46:50.709

illness, and I think that once we learned that he, uh, had the mental illness, he struggled with it. We struggled with it. Uh, and it was just the strength of the family and the love of his family and people who were supporting him and his close

00:46:50.709 - 00:47:06.260

network, uh, to the family, they brought us through that. Uh, he's fully recovered. He's published, he's written a book about his experience and his recovery, and actually I've, I've already published because I wrote the foreword to his book. Um, But I really think that, uh, you

00:47:06.260 - 00:47:19.979

know, I have another son who's in the Air Force and his wife, uh, he has 3 children, so I'm a grandmother. Uh actually grandmother of, oh my gosh, am I gonna say this on film? I'm a grandmother of 12. My oldest daughter has uh 8 children.

00:47:20.179 - 00:47:34.399

My youngest daughter has 1 and my oldest son has 3. but his, I was talking to his wife and she said, you know, she, they wanted to move to another state. It impacts his deployment, when, how often he has to go out overseas. And uh that

00:47:34.399 - 00:47:46.439

she was really concerned about moving, moving her kids around, uh, you know, how that impacted the stability is one of the things that I told her it's really not about where they are. It's about you and your husband and what kind of family environment, you know,

00:47:46.560 - 00:47:58.780

and, and spiritual environment that you are providing for your kids and that's what's going to keep them strong. And I believe that in Westport We definitely had that inside my house. It's one of the things that I know inside my house, we had love, love, love,

00:47:58.939 - 00:48:12.679

love, love, love everywhere. But that extended, that extended beyond my four walls of my house into the neighborhood and you know, as I mentioned, my mother's friends and probably some family members that I weren't, wasn't sure that were family but I really do think it's all

00:48:12.679 - 00:48:25.729

about the family and I think that That, uh, we, we just, there are some cycles in our community that we really need to work on breaking and, you know, one of them is to, to, to make sure that we have, um, you know, two-parent households that

00:48:25.729 - 00:48:39.050

people are, are, are having children when they're ready to have them and, and that we support, you know, young people when they're trying to get education so that they can become stable before, before they embark on other things. So as I was telling my daughter-in-law, it's

00:48:39.050 - 00:49:01.820

about the family. It really is. Well, um, In writing the book, there's a preface in the introduction, and could you take this opportunity to tell me how you're gonna start talking about, uh, African-Americans in Westport in your book? Anything that, uh, I have forgotten to say,

00:49:01.899 - 00:49:22.850

this is a great opportunity to bring it up. Anything that you've forgotten to say? Hmm. I, I, I, one of the things that I would probably focus on is how the community was enveloped uh by Well, they were, it's just a small community of black folks

00:49:23.760 - 00:49:40.110

within that whole area of white folks and how, and, and I just wonder how that impacted our, our, our bonds that we had for one another and probably just try and deal with that a little bit. Probably gonna bring in the whole Elms piece and, and

00:49:40.110 - 00:49:55.750

the folks who worked for the wealthy families on the um On the uh south side of the plaza and that was probably, uh, probably uh uh one of the, one of the ways that, or it just kept the influx, the economy of the community, I guess

00:49:55.750 - 00:50:09.459

let me put it that way, probably kept it pretty strong cause those, because those were some really good jobs but um I, I'll probably talk about, I don't know, I'm not not sure how, in terms of organization, what the preface would contain, but I'd probably really

00:50:09.459 - 00:50:23.020

talk about the impacts of those families on me and how we impacted each other. And, and then really deal with that bonds of being isolated like that because we weren't part of any other black community in Kansas City and I didn't know about any other communities

00:50:23.020 - 00:50:35.889

except where I was. And the other community, when I learned about it as I was growing up, it was different from, from me and what I knew and where I grew up. And the name of the book is gonna be I don't know what the name

00:50:35.889 - 00:51:02.129

of the book is gonna be. You got a suggestion? Uh, so there's there anything else you wanna tell me about any, about, about yourself, uh, other members of your family, the neighborhood, uh. Uh, anything. Uh, I don't. Um, anything, um. Well, as I was talking to

00:51:02.129 - 00:51:18.979

my sister, we're trying to think, wait, what should we talk about? We thought about Bob Boone's and Bob Boone's was this little store that was about a half a block south of 43rd and Pennsylvania on the, on the east side of the street. And Bob Boone's,

00:51:19.479 - 00:51:30.959

it, it was, as I think back now, it was just kind of a strange place. It looked like a, it looked like a, that, that, it looked like they shoved this building into the ground but it was a little hill and, and the store was here

00:51:30.959 - 00:51:42.250

and then they had a little house on top of this hill. Bob Boone's was the local convenience store. It was a local 7-Eleven if you will. And I think that it was Anton's or a name like that before because there was a gentleman over in Kansas,

00:51:42.399 - 00:51:54.290

Kansas told me he used to work there. He's an older guy. Uh, and that was the name he did deliveries for them, but Bob Boone's was where we used to go buy Hershey bars for a nickel or the little Kitty Clover potato chips for a nickel

00:51:54.290 - 00:52:09.110

or Um, RC Cola and, and take the bottles back and uh buy baloney for bologna sandwiches and, uh, although we didn't shop there, I mean, it was just really a kind of a convenience store really it was, but, uh, that was a little store that was

00:52:09.110 - 00:52:25.070

in our neighborhood. It was part of our, part, it was, it was part of our world. Um. Uh, that's one thing that I probably would add. I'm trying to think of anything else, uh. One of, one of the things that I, that I learned through my

00:52:25.070 - 00:52:40.870

research when I was trying to find out about my dad's parents was that, uh, not only at Lincoln Cemetery, but a lot of the black folks that at least in my family were buried at Highland. And uh I, uh, Mid-Continent Library has a great resource and

00:52:40.870 - 00:52:56.830

I looked through their three-inch book and finally found her name on the next to the last page. Uh, took a few hours to get there too. I was really, really wishing I had started from the back. Um, so, and, and then, uh, Bruce Watkins Junior, uh,

00:52:56.879 - 00:53:13.969

uh, has been helping me a lot with, um, uh, with my research on my family because, uh, he was able to pull some, some burial records for my, for my, uh, father, for my father and my mother and then my father's parents, so, which is how

00:53:13.969 - 00:53:32.250

I learned about my great grandparents who lived up on Main, Lucinda and Patrick. Um, My, uh, uh, great grandparents lived on Main. Is that sort of unusual? That, that's, I'm trying to find out how unusual that was. It was they would have been in the area

00:53:32.250 - 00:53:47.260

between, excuse me, Westport Road and Forty-Second Street, which is. Which is across the street from Saint Paul, the church there, and I, the only thing I could imagine is that there was an apartment, uh, you know, I don't know what was going on but they had

00:53:47.260 - 00:54:00.100

a lot of children, so I mean it was really, I was really excited to see that she had like, like 14 children or something like that. So I probably have a lot of other relatives out there that I don't know about. Um, I'm sorry, go ahead.

00:54:00.370 - 00:54:16.010

Uh, uh, do you recall, uh, do you ever see, uh, when Steptoe wasn't carved on the corners of the, um, uh, street, Forty-third Terrace? Did you ever get a chance to see that? I remember you mentioning that, and I think that, uh, well, I remember talking

00:54:16.010 - 00:54:39.149

about it, and I do remember seeing the blue and white tiles, but I don't remember, I don't remember what they said. So, so I do remember the tiles, but I don't remember what they said. Um, Well, I, uh, will be looking forward to the book. And,

00:54:39.159 - 00:55:00.139

um, Uh, hopefully, um, You will have, uh, all the stories in it that you've mentioned here and we're down to the last, uh, thing. Uh, I don't have any more questions. I need just some, uh, closing remarks from you. Oh, well, Joe, I think one of

00:55:00.139 - 00:55:14.620

the main things I wanna do is thank you, uh, thank Saint Luke's Hospital, um, uh, thank all the research facilities around town that have been just great in helping me, uh, deal with, with the work that I'm doing, but Uh, uh, the, the piece that you

00:55:14.620 - 00:55:30.870

did on Steptoe was a real inspiration. I think a real jumping point for me to embark from in terms of doing my research and understanding, understanding the nature of, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the initial development of that area. So. Uh, it's a place to

00:55:30.870 - 00:55:39.070

start, and I plan, I do plan to give you some credits in my book, so I appreciate you, and I just wanna thank you for the opportunity and thank you, mhm.