00:00:01.419 - 00:00:29.440

This is Edward Scott, interviewer for the Black Archives of Mid America. And I'm interviewing. And this is Manny Hughes, County Legislator, District 4. In our office in the uh County courthouse on the second floor. This is uh the date is, uh, May 20, May 5th, 1976

00:00:29.440 - 00:00:54.830

at the time was about 1:10. Uh, Mrs. Hughes. When and where were you born? I was born in Jacksonville, Florida, May 3rd, 1929. 47 short years ago. Uh, what were, uh, some of the circumstances surrounding you when you were, uh, your birth, your parents, conditions of

00:00:54.830 - 00:01:13.000

your parents? I was born to average black American parents. And I say average because they were at that time, I guess what would be considered black middle class parents. We were poor, we just didn't know it. They taught school and school teachers didn't really make much

00:01:13.000 - 00:01:31.050

money. We used to say that my father worked during the summer, in order to be able to afford to be a school teacher, 8 or 9 months of the school year. Um, I, We lived in Jacksonville, Florida, where I was born during the time that I

00:01:31.050 - 00:01:49.980

was growing up, but it was a total, totally segregated society, just the black world that I lived in. I was probably 8 years old before I realized that there was some other world besides that black world and somewhere outside of that. Those little boundaries of security,

00:01:50.209 - 00:02:14.399

there there were white people. What were your parents' names? My father's name is James Samuel Curry. My mother, Amy Stewart Curry. Uh, still. They're both still living and they both still live in Jacksonville, Florida. Well, they're retired now. Um, my dad retired, uh, before my mother

00:02:14.399 - 00:02:33.199

did. My mother taught school for a total of 45 years. And then her mother had been a teacher before she was, and she taught about 45 or more years when she retired. My grandfather, uh, my mother's father was also a teacher and an educator, and the

00:02:33.199 - 00:02:48.544

interesting thing about him is that as far as formal education was concerned, he didn't go any farther than maybe about the 3rd grade. But he was what you would really call a self-educated man. He was somebody that yearned for learning, and he just taught himself, read

00:02:48.544 - 00:03:05.679

all kinds of books, and when he accumulated a certain amount of knowledge and after he had worked for a long time, then he went back to school and got some degrees, but he did teach and he was a highly educated man. Uh, where were your grandparents

00:03:05.679 - 00:03:25.130

at? Where were my grand well, one set of grandparents, this grandfather that I spoke, my mother's father was in Jacksonville, Florida. My mother's father and mother and my father's father and mother were in Clearwater, Florida, and They were people who were just laborers and um my

00:03:25.130 - 00:03:41.970

grandmother did laundry, my father's mother, but she worked very hard and she knew how important education was and she made sure that all of her children had the opportunity. They used to say they may not all have been college graduates or been well educated, but it

00:03:41.970 - 00:03:56.535

certainly wasn't because their mother didn't make the opportunity and I think I think when I see that little commercial that comes on TV about the United Negro College Fund and it shows a woman down scrubbing floors, you know, and trying to get that kid to, I

00:03:56.535 - 00:04:10.335

think about Mama Lou because she wasn't scrubbing the floors all the time, but she was washing and doing that kind of labor, but she did it gladly because she knew that that was the way she was going to educate those children and she had a lot

00:04:10.335 - 00:04:24.970

of them, but I don't think very many of them finished college. They all had the opportunity, like I said, my dad went away when he was in about the 6th grade and he went away to boarding school and then he went to Florida A&M, which is

00:04:24.970 - 00:04:41.575

now Florida A&M University, and he graduated with a BA degree in 23. He and my mother were both there at Florida A&M together and they graduated in 1923 and then they got married some years later and of course they moved. to Jacksonville, but both of them

00:04:41.575 - 00:04:58.404

taught school for many, many years. My dad taught more in the rural areas and that's what he really loved, those little 2 and 3 room schools where they had combined grades but where kids were really just hungry for learning and uh he it just inspired him

00:04:58.404 - 00:05:16.829

to do a good job, but he was a teacher, social worker, a medical expert because you had to be all of that when you taught out there in the boondocks. Um, what were your grandparents' names? Oh, my grandparents' names. My mother's mother was Mamie, Mamie Francis

00:05:16.829 - 00:05:41.019

Stewart, and her father was Vincent James Stewart, and then my father's mother was Lou Curry and his father was William Curry. Do you think that at that time as a guideline. To the future, you know, like you said your grandmother was oh look, they, they, they

00:05:41.019 - 00:05:55.260

really did and sometimes I get troubled as I look out to the future and wonder if I'm giving to my children the same kinds of things, you know, that they gave to us and, and I keep hoping that I am, but I think that without being

00:05:55.260 - 00:06:10.399

really preachy. They were able to show us that they hadn't been provided with a lot of advantages, but they had tried to take advantage of what they had, but that they were going to make sure they make the way easier for us to get more opportunities

00:06:10.399 - 00:06:25.279

and that somehow we must pass it on. Uh, they, they just had a real sense though of where they had come from. My grand, now both 3, at least 3 of my grandparents would talk very much about having been children of slaves. All 4 of them

00:06:25.279 - 00:06:43.929

were, as a matter of fact, but I can remember hearing my mother's father say that his mother had been a slave. And they, they all felt that the part we had played in as far as the building of America and our ancestors being slaves had, had

00:06:43.929 - 00:07:01.700

been a contribution, but that Despite all the disadvantages that slavery had been that that we had overcome so much of that and and that if we could do this being slaves and children of slaves that for those of us who were free we just ought to

00:07:01.700 - 00:07:15.605

be doing one whale of a lot of things and I think sometimes it would be a suggestion that they were somewhat disappointed in us not doing a lot. better than we were because they had, you know, managed through great odds and here we were sort of

00:07:15.605 - 00:07:33.404

born with a lot more advantages and not taking, taking advantage of the advantages more than we did, but I know for instance, I spent more time with my mother's mother and father than I did with my father's mother and father, they were a lot older and

00:07:33.404 - 00:07:48.739

they were both dead by the time I was 5 or 6. Uh, maybe 8 at the most, so I, I Didn't spend a lot of time. I spent one or two summers with them. I know more about them from what I hear people say, but my

00:07:48.739 - 00:08:02.820

mother's mother and father, I spent time just actually sitting down there at their knee, and my grandfather knew a lot about black history, and he just loved to tell you stories. And not only that, they would tell us about the people in our town that had

00:08:02.820 - 00:08:17.000

done things that were worthwhile and that were worthy of our trying to imitate. And they would talk about the people in the area around, and of course one person that stands out to me was James Weldon Johnson, who was a lawyer, I think. I think he

00:08:17.000 - 00:08:33.440

was the first black lawyer to or the first black who was admitted to the bar, the Florida bar, but he was also a poet, and he is the one who wrote Lift Every Voice and Sing, and his brother wrote the music, but it wasn't that they

00:08:33.440 - 00:08:51.760

were just telling us that, you know, they just really made it come to life. It was like I knew Mr. Johnson. I was saying that James Weldon Johnson just really came alive and although I'm sure his brother Jay Roseman was probably as talented, maybe they knew

00:08:51.760 - 00:09:11.250

James Weldon better. He had been the principal of the high school. And they had known it and so they were talking about someone they knew very well, but I think they just wanted us to feel a real surge of pride, you know, about the contributions, our

00:09:11.250 - 00:09:28.219

people have made so that we'd have something to really feel proud and good about and then something to aspire to and So they were always pointing out somebody somewhere that had done something that was worthy of repeating and I think the kind of black history that

00:09:28.219 - 00:09:42.580

I learned as a child, I, I got as much at home with my grandparents as I did at school. But the interesting thing is that in our schools, those segregated schools at that time, they taught a lot of black history. See the textbooks. had were just

00:09:42.580 - 00:10:00.469

the lily white history that was repeated and promulgated, but always there was some instructor who right along with history was making it correct and I recall that even my father used to say when the various battles were described in history and I was never a real

00:10:00.469 - 00:10:19.440

student of history, couldn't get dates straight and Had a lot of problems, but somehow I, I could recall just instances, but he would say history relates the various wars and he says, but, but they haven't gotten it straight yet, he said, because blacks have served in

00:10:19.440 - 00:10:33.346

every war, every conflict in which this country has been engaged, he said, and they have served. Served with a distinction and of course then my daddy could go into great detail telling you about the time that I guess it was Wilson who was in the White

00:10:33.346 - 00:10:51.812

House and they were, they had a lot of fears about uh take over and that there was a black regiment that patrolled and of course he told that with great pride. And as a child I really responded to that and I think that as I repeat

00:10:51.812 - 00:11:06.052

those stories to my children, that it gives them a real sense of worth that they've made some contributions, and I find myself doing like my parents, we drive along the street and they look up at the traffic light and I say, hey, did you see that

00:11:06.052 - 00:11:18.359

traffic light that's up there? Uh, did you know that it was a black man that designed that traffic light? And, and they really didn't, and they passed and looked at traffic lights all the time, but now a traffic light really says something to them because I

00:11:18.359 - 00:11:36.070

say a man named Garrett Morgan is who designed that traffic light. Now he sold it to General Electric or somebody, but, but he was the one who had it in his, in his head, and so, uh. That that's kind of the way I came up and

00:11:36.070 - 00:11:51.510

I think it meant a lot to me and so then I had the thirst for finding out more about different kinds of people in different kinds of categories and that that sort of interest has lasted all my life and in this area I think one of

00:11:51.510 - 00:12:04.539

the reasons I, uh, one of the reasons, just one that I enjoy Doctor and Mrs. Bryant so much is that I. can go and sit with them and talk and uh he just gets to talking about people that he has really known, but then he relates

00:12:04.539 - 00:12:23.989

them to other people who've done some similar things in years past, and he just makes those characters just come to life. You just can picture them doing all those things and it really lets you know that that our people really have made a contribution. I, I

00:12:23.989 - 00:12:41.909

haven't been able to run across, uh, too many people whose history has been, uh, such as they have been given history as they, uh, growing up, you know, uh, I know that, uh, in a lot of the towns in the South, James Weldon Johnson's song was

00:12:41.909 - 00:12:59.690

always in the schools. Oh yes, yes, he was principal. He was principal of a high school called Stanton High School in Jacksonville, Florida, and, and I don't know if they were born in Jacksonville, he and his brother, but I know they lived there for a while

00:13:00.070 - 00:13:16.650

and my grandparents knew them. And so as I said, that was always a point to start, to start talking about somebody you really know and when you realize that somebody is famous and you hear, you know, grandmother talking about somebody that's famous that she knew it

00:13:16.650 - 00:13:32.140

can really capture your attention. And then there were people like Mary McLeod Bethune that I knew and while I didn't know her very well, whenever I went to Daytona and I had some friends who lived in Daytona Beach and that's where the college was, we would

00:13:32.140 - 00:13:50.320

either go over and visit her. One particular time we went to Daytona Beach and uh we went because my friend's uncle or somebody died and so she came to the house to offer her sympathy and regrets. And uh this is one of those times I'll never

00:13:50.320 - 00:14:04.679

forget an encounter with her because she was really a magnificent woman and she came in and we were several young people all of us seated in this back room, a little den kind of like they call them Florida rooms, and we were all seated back there

00:14:04.679 - 00:14:17.320

and she came into the house and she came back and I remember knowing that when she came through that door I was supposed to get up out of the chair, you know, but I started looking. around at my friends and nobody was getting up, you know,

00:14:17.400 - 00:14:30.130

and I was in the chair kind of like this and I'll never forget it. She just stopped right there at the door and she looked right at me and she said, come on, come on. You know what to do, not do it. But I just sprung

00:14:30.130 - 00:14:43.640

right up and I realized that I was the only one on my feet. And I looked around at the rest of them and then she chewed them out. She, she chewed me out number one because she knew that I knew I should be getting up out

00:14:43.640 - 00:14:55.679

of that seat when she walked in and I was hesitating because of the kids around me and because they weren't doing it. And then she looked at them and she told them if they got, if they were sitting there because they were just too lazy, she

00:14:55.679 - 00:15:09.960

could maybe understand that, but if they were sitting up there because they didn't know she was going to teach it to them and boy she really. So I said I guess the next time she or any adult came into a room, they would get up, but

00:15:09.960 - 00:15:24.109

she told them what a sign of respect it was and that they didn't need to be embarrassed or ashamed by it, but they should be embarrassed or ashamed that now that she had taught them that they would refuse to do it or would you know be

00:15:24.109 - 00:15:39.034

too. Lazy. So we sort of laughed about it going back to Jacksonville, but I remember Mary McLeod Bethune and that lesson and I said from then on if my friends didn't stand something, an incident like that, you know, let me know that I should still have

00:15:39.034 - 00:15:57.260

the courage of my convictions or at least what I knew to be right and just go on and do it. Hm. But uh you know as a child when she would be invited to see President Roosevelt and she did go to the White House many times,

00:15:57.340 - 00:16:12.500

of course that would be something that would be written up in our papers and it was just like, you know, we were being invited there because we felt this was somebody we knew and we know somebody who knows the president and she was well respected and

00:16:12.500 - 00:16:37.349

she and Eleanor Roosevelt were good friends. Uh, You, uh, left. I left Florida, uh, after I graduated from college, well yeah, I went to those segregated schools in Jacksonville and I, uh, for a couple of years I went to school in Harlem in New York. I

00:16:37.349 - 00:16:54.770

went to PS in Jacksonville I went to a grade school that was called Davis Street School and then was eventually named Isaiah Blocker for a principal who was a fine educator. Um and who had been the principal there for a long time. And then I went

00:16:54.770 - 00:17:11.089

to Stanton High School, which by the way was the only black high school in town, right? So anybody that black that went to high school went to Stanton. Uh and that was true until in the 50s, late 50s when they sort of, well, they began to

00:17:11.089 - 00:17:30.380

build some other black high schools, but until the 50s there was just one. Um, but after I graduated from Stanton High School, and I graduated from Stanton High School in 1945, I was enrolled at Fisk University and I went to Fisk University from 1945, graduated in

00:17:30.380 - 00:17:49.530

194949, and again I think I was impressed with Fisk University because it was so steeped in black culture, there were Uh, former slaves who had decided with the help of some white people that they wanted to start a school and so they had taken their voices

00:17:49.530 - 00:18:04.079

all over the world and the Jubilee Singers had raised money to build a school and it just seemed that there were some people with some purpose that had created something that I would. Uh, get something, you know, some benefit from and perhaps have something to pass

00:18:04.079 - 00:18:24.060

on for generations to come. And then I came to the Kansas City area in 49 after I had graduated from college and gotten married and I've been here for 26 years. How was your experience in Harlem? In Harlem was similar to the South. There were some

00:18:24.060 - 00:18:42.030

things that were different, of course, the difference in Harlem and in the South was that I didn't see those signs that separated black from white, the colored and white signs, but it was still a segregated. Society. Now I saw what some people call white people because

00:18:42.030 - 00:19:00.930

I lived in what is called Spanish Harlem and so there were blacks and there were Puerto Ricans and just Spanish, a lot of Spanish speaking people from a variety of places, Cuba and the countries where they do speak Spanish. But it was still a segregated kind

00:19:00.930 - 00:19:20.979

of living. The schools were good, they were better than the schools I had attended in the South, but um, it was much the same. I, I had little realization that outside of that private little world I was in, uh, that there was white society and that

00:19:20.979 - 00:19:38.119

there were people who lived affluent kinds of lives because again we we were poor people and I keep saying that not because I feel. Pathetic or you know that there was any sympathy because I, I, we really didn't know just how poor we really were because

00:19:38.119 - 00:19:52.520

we were comfortable, we had enough food to eat and we had clothes to wear, and people talk about hand me downs, you know, and I remember as a child that, that, that never did bother me. I, I loved looking forward to getting if I got clothes

00:19:52.520 - 00:20:06.170

from cousins who were older and who passed them on to me, maybe it was that. A lot of times we got clothes, our grandmother, for instance, or our aunts who worked for rich people were given clothes and gee they were fine and for some reason I

00:20:06.170 - 00:20:19.489

developed a taste for those nice things and I knew that my parents could never afford to buy them, so when they would send those darling little dresses that were made out of nice fabrics, it didn't bother me that they had been somebody else's, you know, it

00:20:19.489 - 00:20:31.010

was mine now. And I think that sort of retained that. I think that we get a lot of phony notions that cause us to do a lot of silly things and maybe I haven't gotten rid of all of mine, but that didn't have to be one

00:20:31.010 - 00:20:45.109

of them. So I think and and those were the ways that we made it, you know, and the kinds of things that maybe kept us from realizing how how really poor we were, but we were never poor in spirit, and I guess maybe that's the difference.

00:20:45.959 - 00:21:00.319

Uh, we always used to feel that it was gonna get better, you know, it'll be better tomorrow than it is today. I recall my grandmother when I was pretty much, um, oh, an, an older teenager, and I remember her saying one day that she had paid

00:21:00.319 - 00:21:16.069

all of her bills. I mean, now, you know, to say, paid all your bills. I do not owe anybody anything, and it struck me, you know, here's this old woman saying, saying. She has paid all her bills, but and you realize that we've come through times

00:21:16.069 - 00:21:29.250

when the only way we could get things is to buy them on credit. But that she had accumulated a lot of things, she had a house and she had furniture, and that was how she got it, but that she reached a 0.1 day in her life

00:21:29.250 - 00:21:56.079

when when all of that did belong to her and she didn't owe anybody for it. So uh. Except for, for the utilities. Uh, who was, uh, who was probably one of the greatest influences so far, uh, up until this point in your life? Well, I guess

00:21:56.079 - 00:22:13.959

I have to say a variety of people, but I keep talking about my grandmother because she really did have a profound effect on my life. She was somebody who, who, she belonged to the Baptist Church, and she believed in God very strongly and in her fellow

00:22:13.959 - 00:22:33.449

man, and she had a very good friend, her very best friend, whose name was Eartha White and and Miss White. It was really what you could call a one woman welfare department, Miss White begged food for the poor and the hungry, and she begged everything for,

00:22:34.469 - 00:22:55.900

begged everybody for everything for everybody, and she knew that our people just had all kinds of needs, and she just set out to try to get some of those needs taken care of, and she had been somebody. I knew when I knew her, she was uh

00:22:56.079 - 00:23:14.000

well in the middle aged because she was perhaps a little bit younger than my grandmother, to give you an idea of her age, she died. Last year she died, I think it's either 74 or 75 and she was she was almost 98 years old. So she,

00:23:14.180 - 00:23:34.719

she lived a good long life, but she was an older woman when I knew her and um she had spent her life. For others, she had been a talented musician and in her youth her mother who had been a slave and had been freed, worked doing

00:23:34.719 - 00:23:49.819

a variety of things to get her educated and to get her trained musically and I think she performed abroad and with some kind of Negro era company or something and then one day she just decided that wasn't for her and she came back to Jacksonville, Florida

00:23:50.199 - 00:24:06.630

and. Uh, opened a mission. I think her mother had been involved or interested in just sort of feeding hungry people maybe during World War One. At any rate, she opened up what she called a mission and by the way it is a place which still stands

00:24:06.630 - 00:24:22.680

today in Jacksonville, Florida up on Ashley Street, and my mother has taken the place of my grandmother there and my uncle and aunt work up there and give volunteer time, but I think those were the influences that that really came to play on you that that

00:24:22.680 - 00:24:41.270

all of us have an opportunity and a real responsibility to do something for somebody else and I think my grandmother used to put it well when she said that. You, everybody needs something and everybody needs somebody else at one time or other, and she says you

00:24:41.270 - 00:24:58.390

very, very seldom get to do things for the people who do them for you, but it's only important that you do something for somebody so that if you are always doing something, there's always something being done and if, if enough people take that on, then, then

00:24:58.390 - 00:25:12.859

the work gets done and somehow I think that my life has been influenced by that. That you've got more than a responsibility. I mean, it's a real strong duty, boy, she put it on you like an onus, you know, this is it. You have got to

00:25:12.859 - 00:25:28.540

do something. You just cannot be born and, and be living in this world and not do something for somebody. And, and she just believed that so strongly and that it ain't for no strokes and for the kudos and for all it's, it's just because that is

00:25:28.540 - 00:25:45.834

just what God. I mean he just meant that you do that and if you didn't then, then you were striking back at God, it was that serious to her and she impressed us with with how important it was to just, you know, it wasn't just about

00:25:45.854 - 00:26:08.479

being your brother's keeper or something noble sounding, it was just that was your right, your responsibility, your strong duty. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I know that uh usually like that the termination of a time a time period that you spend in that kind of environment is usually

00:26:08.479 - 00:26:32.060

when your religious affiliations begin to change. So initially were you Baptist? Yes, I was baptized in the Baptist church and it was interesting. I had some friends who were Catholic. And um we all went to the same high school, but I would notice that sometimes we

00:26:32.060 - 00:26:47.630

would go on picnics or something and if we were going on a picnic and especially if it was on Sunday they'd say well we got to go to church first, and I realized they were really serious, and then there were a couple of fellows a couple

00:26:47.630 - 00:27:02.185

of guys that were really our good friends and they were kind of what you call the tough, tough guys. I mean they were. They stayed in and out of trouble sometimes in more than out, but on Saturday afternoon if it was going to confession or somebody

00:27:02.185 - 00:27:17.905

at the church calling them about, I mean it wasn't being bad no more, you know, it wasn't up at the pool hall or on the corner, it was over there at Saint Pius and I began to question then and wonder about something that could get people

00:27:17.905 - 00:27:35.910

seriously thinking that much about themselves and what they do so that you know fun wasn't everything. And so then I decided that I wanted to look further into Catholicism and I did and after it wasn't a short while because even when I was there in Jacksonville

00:27:35.910 - 00:27:50.349

and my grandmother lived, I used to go to the Baptist church, but I had an interest somewhere else and I was looking for something else and so I guess it took a period of about 10 or maybe 15 years before I finally got through the process

00:27:50.349 - 00:28:10.199

of going to to get the. The religious training and then being baptized in the Catholic Church. And then uh after you came to Kansas City, what year did you come to Kansas Kansas City. And for a couple of years now, I, we came, I was here

00:28:10.199 - 00:28:34.380

in '49 and stayed here until about 54. And then the year 1954 and 1955 we spent in Mississippi. And if Florida was interesting, Mississippi was a whole, a whole new, oh, it was just something that was, it was really unreal. I had heard stories, I had

00:28:34.380 - 00:28:51.839

heard horror stories. I had heard people talk about the Klan. I had read about the Ku Klux Klan. I had seen pictures in Ebony. I had read the Pittsburgh Query, but I saw Mississippi. I heard people say, pull up there, ***, and I don't mean the

00:28:51.839 - 00:29:05.453

other side of the bridge just because the policeman wanted to stop you to ask you a question. You, you say, Well, officer, what did I? Well, I don't know yet, ***. Let me see. Oh, you know, the horror stories just. Go on and on and I

00:29:05.453 - 00:29:20.213

think one of the things that used to disturb me so about the South, and I remember my grandmother used to say that our white people hated to call you mister or missus. Now they would call you professor, they would call you reverend, and they would call

00:29:20.213 - 00:29:35.385

a doctor doctor, but those were just about it as far as titles were concerned and that. Just used to drive me crazy that they, you know, you got to be Miss so and so and yes ma'am, but I cannot be Mrs. Hughes and they would come

00:29:35.385 - 00:29:52.010

sometimes to visit us at our school and I had never heard of a situation where one adult and especially an educator, would come to visit another adult in a classroom. And not address that teacher in the presence of those students with a handle, Mrs. Hughes, right,

00:29:52.339 - 00:30:07.859

but not those white folks in Mississippi. Mammie, Mammy Francis, oh, that used to just drive me wow. And uh it just went on all the time and I, I understand that that process is changing, but those were the kinds of things that really used to bother

00:30:07.859 - 00:30:24.989

me about Mississippi. And not only that, we paid the poll tax, you know, and those were poor people down there in Mississippi. When I say poor, uh. The, you know, the, the income for the masses of people was, was, was so low that it really is

00:30:24.989 - 00:30:37.989

staggering when I think about it, people who worked all day in the fields for 2 to $3 a day, and they would leave home, the trucks would come by and pick them up at 4 and 5 o'clock in the morning and they would work from sun

00:30:37.989 - 00:30:55.640

up to sunset, hot. And I don't care how, no matter how hot or cold or how bad the weather, they, they just worked all the time. But the thing I think that really impressed me was that those people were able to see. That they had a

00:30:55.640 - 00:31:11.239

right to vote and they would pay that poll tax. sometimes paying a poll tax meant a day's pay, but they would pay it and they began to realize and I think now that's why we've gotten in the past few years so much better representation coming from

00:31:11.239 - 00:31:29.810

places like Mississippi because they, you know, that snowball effect or has has taken over that rippling or domino effect where you know one person says. We were able to do this and then hundreds and thousands of them joining together to say, hey, we can make these

00:31:29.810 - 00:31:43.229

people here, we'll march down there to the polls and we'll make our voices heard. We'll put in the people that are going to do some things on our behalf and we'll get those folks out that are just keeping us down and keeping us back. And I

00:31:43.229 - 00:31:57.910

talked to people who, you know, are from Mississippi or who've been there in recent years and they say the change is so marked, I wouldn't know it if I'd go back. But uh in Mississippi they had down there where we were it was what they call

00:31:57.910 - 00:32:20.369

a consolidated school and see white children had uh one kind of school. Even in the rural areas, that was just like any other school that any other white children had in the heart of town, but the black schools were consolidated schools. That meant that they started

00:32:20.369 - 00:32:34.989

in the 1st grade. Now they didn't have kindergarten and they went all the way through the 12th grade and they'd have what they call a little campus. And and that would serve a certain rural area and they'd have maybe one we had one building for instance

00:32:34.989 - 00:32:49.750

that had the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th grade in it and it was just one big square building and divided into 4 little squares and didn't even have a hall, had like a front porch and a back porch and the front porch was sort of a

00:32:49.750 - 00:33:03.005

little office and the children came through that way but you came into one room and you'd. Have to go in one room through one room to get to the other unless you came in the front door or the back door, um, but anyway they had 11

00:33:03.005 - 00:33:15.895

building that was the 1st grade, another building that was the 2nd grade, and then this big building that had 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and then another building that was the 7th grade, and then they had one new building, and that was the high school building and

00:33:15.895 - 00:33:30.150

it had 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade in it and then I think a special room for home. But, excuse me, they had a little, some little house that was the cafeteria, and they were just little houses, they were they were little shotgun houses, they would

00:33:30.150 - 00:33:47.589

move onto the onto the turf. The gym was the great outdoors, right? They had a couple of basketball goals just out on the ground, and if we kept the ground smooth, it was like that was the basketball court. But just around now we had about 1000

00:33:47.589 - 00:34:03.449

kids there. I had, I taught 3rd grade and I had about 72 kids enrolled in that classroom. Some days I wouldn't have about 8 or 9 in school when they'd be planning or I mean after the cotton had been planted. Then they'd start, the little plants

00:34:03.449 - 00:34:17.219

would come up, they'd they call it chopping it when they would be weeding it and everybody would go to the fields because they make money. And then of course when it was time to reap the cotton, everybody was out picking. But uh our school year was

00:34:17.219 - 00:34:31.639

supposed to be planned around the cotton crop. We started school in July and we'd have school in July and August. Then school would be out for two months when they would be reaping the cotton and so October, I mean September and October school would be out

00:34:31.639 - 00:34:48.250

so the crop, but a lot of times the end of August they'd be ready to start reaping and picking so those kids wouldn't come and then November sometimes they wouldn't quite be finished so they wouldn't start back. But then November through May was the and can

00:34:48.250 - 00:35:02.729

you imagine starting school like that to have school two months in the summer, then you break off, then two months nothing, then start back in November, it was just a weird kind of situation, but um. Like I said, I had those 72 kids in there and

00:35:02.729 - 00:35:15.780

sometimes they would get so disgusted, they would say, it just, it just don't do no good and I would be trying to talk to them and encouraging them to come to school, and yet I knew that if the families were going to be out chopping the

00:35:15.780 - 00:35:29.780

cotton, they had to be there and the same thing with picking that was the time they could add to the meager income they had, but I would tell them that it was important that they get an education, if nothing else to improve their minds. And uh

00:35:29.780 - 00:35:41.939

I knew that it would inspire them to know that they could be successful and that they didn't just have to always be on a plantation and be a sharecropper because that's where they were at that particular point in time, but sometimes they would just look at

00:35:41.939 - 00:35:55.100

me, shake their head, and they say this year this cotton ain't so bad, but it's just got too many it's to it, and they called it the it crop, you know, so one day I asked them, I said what do you mean by it? They said,

00:35:55.219 - 00:36:12.679

well, we tell you, you plant it. You chop it, you pick it, and then you get nothing for it. And you know that, that really had a tragic ring to it, but it was the truth. But the thing too that I think used to really strike

00:36:12.679 - 00:36:32.330

me so was that just across the field from us and it would be around the corner if you drove around the highway, but you could look off and see in the distance, great big old brick building. That had a cafeteria inside a gymnasium inside with wood

00:36:32.330 - 00:36:55.610

floor, the basketball goal. Auditorium and a library, none of which, you know. And with 200 little white elementary, now I didn't say consolidated, right, elementary school kids, and I used to say all the time in Mississippi, this is what is known as separate but equal. So

00:36:55.610 - 00:37:16.870

I say yeah, separate and unequal. Did you, did you have any luck in getting, uh, how did you know that was probably a whole generation of people. How were they able to get educated? Yeah, um, it, it, it was a slow process, and yet when I

00:37:16.870 - 00:37:33.850

look at other areas I think well maybe it wasn't as slow as I say it was because a lot of those people who were totally uneducated had families of children. That they put through those consolidated schools and sent off to the various colleges, even the black

00:37:33.850 - 00:37:48.800

colleges right there in Mississippi, and then when the colleges began to open up and take students, then they, they were still socking it to them, telling them you got to stay in school, you got to do better, and so they began to be teachers and lawyers

00:37:48.800 - 00:38:09.520

and doctors and Uh, I not only that, they began, and, and at that time, though, I think I was impressed with the South, the fact that uh in the South rather that they were more politically astute than blacks a lot of other places because they passed

00:38:09.520 - 00:38:28.959

the word around and I think. That in spite of all the the the tragedies and the incidents that happened to them as far as registering and voting and all the various kinds of drives that they were able to continue to struggle and to say look, the

00:38:28.959 - 00:38:44.129

ballot the battle is at the ballot box and that's where we're gonna make our progress and and that's where we're gonna realize our goal, you know, and I think right now what disturbs me. I look back here in Kansas City and look at where we've been

00:38:44.129 - 00:39:00.770

and now where we're going. The thing that I think disturbs me more than anything is, is sort of what I call that responsibility because see when I think in terms of Mississippi and those kids down there whose folks worked so hard to educate them and to

00:39:00.770 - 00:39:16.129

get them to a point where they could help somebody else, I think there are numbers of them who were there. Doing it for their own people, but I just don't think anywhere there are enough of us still with that commitment, you know, and and there are

00:39:16.129 - 00:39:31.149

others who said it a lot better than I'm able to say it, but I I I certainly feel strongly about it because I think that wherever it is we have come has certainly been by a lot of people's doing and with a lot of sacrifice and

00:39:31.149 - 00:39:48.219

so we don't need to take it for granted, but more than that. I just think that it's, it's, it's tragic that we can be so comfortable when there are so many of our brothers and sisters still struggling and still waiting for us to do what somebody

00:39:48.219 - 00:40:02.699

did for us and, and we just get comfortable, boy, we get comfortable and we forget and that, that's what really troubles me. I'm, I'm sure I could make more of a commitment so because you know this is not looking out there seeing the log in my

00:40:02.699 - 00:40:19.419

neighbor's, I mean. The fleck in my neighbor's eye and overlooking the log that's in my own, but I just think that we, we just have got to find a way to say to it to every human being among us that's made it or that's making it

00:40:19.959 - 00:40:35.219

that you got a responsibility to reach out there to somebody else, you know, we just wouldn't have all the problems we have. I'm sure we'd be a lot more unified, you know, we keep talking about the importance of unity. But it, but it is that we

00:40:35.219 - 00:40:51.205

get comfortable and we just, we just, we forget how, you know, we forget what being hungry was, we forget what being cold was, and we forget what being set back in any kind of, we just, just forget that. I think the basic problem is. Is, is,

00:40:51.235 - 00:41:04.915

is the heaven that we've been looking for, you know, as soon as we find a little bit of it, there it is. That's right, settle, stay right there and I ain't going to give any of this little, uh, I worked hard to get this, y'all worked

00:41:04.915 - 00:41:21.669

hard and get that. I just know I don't think we ought to be there. Uh, there's a, a record by Gil Scott Heron. Peace go with you, brother. Yeah, winner in America and he talks about, uh, you're my doctor, my lawyer, and my sister, my brother,

00:41:22.689 - 00:41:42.320

and somehow you forgot about me, you know, and, uh, that seems to be the kind of attitude that, uh, uh, exists. They forget. Cause uh you know Martin Luther King used to say so many times that we can't be talking about freedom, as long as just

00:41:42.320 - 00:41:59.000

one of us is enslaved, we, we, we ain't free, and, and that is the truth, long as they got one of us in shackles, we just are not free, but we do tend to ease on up and we say, you know, see somebody tells us, they

00:41:59.000 - 00:42:19.699

love to tell us we're different, right? And they look at me and they say. You don't you different and we abide. And then then we're gone, lost get back to Kansas City, right, OK, so we only stayed there in Mississippi, but I guess it was just

00:42:19.699 - 00:42:38.050

such a horrendous from day to day, OK. That was Leonard and Mamie and two small children. OK, since then, and after we came back to Kansas City, we being Leonard and Mamie and 2 little children, then 3 more joined that group, so that there are now

00:42:38.050 - 00:42:59.649

5 children, and they are Leonard the 3rd and Kevin and Stefan and Sean and Amy, but uh I came back to Kansas City in 55 and in 55, 56 I worked for the money order department, that was the federal government and then I had, I was

00:42:59.649 - 00:43:17.040

trained to be a teacher, taught school in Mississippi, had taught school before I left Kansas City the first time. And so I went back to teaching school for a while and of course then when all of those children came I went to teaching them and being

00:43:17.040 - 00:43:35.949

a homemaker and mother for a few years and during that time when I was not teaching. Uh, or being paid for it. I did some volunteer things. Sometimes I would teach at the Catholic school once the nun became very ill and she was out for 2

00:43:35.949 - 00:43:52.270

or 3 months and I took her place and then whenever they needed somebody to assist the teacher or when Head Start program first started, I worked as a Head Start volunteer and just assisted the teachers and the teacher's assistants and. I used to do volunteer kinds

00:43:52.270 - 00:44:07.110

of things, especially with teaching because I knew that was where my talent was, and I know that I know how to teach, and but I did other kinds of volunteer things, volunteered with the Red Cross, collected money for the United campaign till I just really got

00:44:07.110 - 00:44:23.469

kind of fed up with the United campaign. I have someone in my family who works as a Boy Scout executive, and I have the greatest respect for Boy Scouts, but I think as far as the United campaign giving money to the Boy Scouts, I have always

00:44:23.469 - 00:44:40.550

felt that their priorities were kind of out of order, and especially where there were inner city kids that don't get to know what Boy Scouts are, and as valuable as a Boy Scout program is, I just didn't see. Giving United campaign dollars to kids who were

00:44:40.550 - 00:45:00.139

affluent enough to have their own program and their own parents and just it's, you know, the same thing of the powerful getting more powerful, but anyway, I did just a variety of volunteer kinds of things and I was involved in politics during the time of the

00:45:00.139 - 00:45:21.500

referendum on the public accommodations and uh the fair housing or during the passage of the fair housing ordinance and have always been involved with various civil rights causes all the time when we picketed the restaurants downtown because we just said we were tired of spending our

00:45:21.500 - 00:45:33.770

money in every department and couldn't go in the restaurant and sit down and eat. Um, I said at the time and it's really been interesting, I bet I can count the times on my hand and still have fingers left that I have eaten, but it was

00:45:33.770 - 00:45:53.469

just the right, I just wanted to know that anybody who had the money could eat anywhere just like they would take their money in any other department, but, uh, getting involved in politics just from that perspective let me know that. That that was really where the

00:45:53.469 - 00:46:09.500

power is that you elect people to an office and they make the decisions that affect you on a day to day basis. So when I got the opportunity to be a candidate, I thought, well, if I'm successful, I'll be in a position to make some decisions

00:46:09.879 - 00:46:27.044

and maybe I'll have the opportunity. To design some programs that my people will be able to get some benefit from. Maybe I'll be in a position to influence somebody to recognize that here are these people who've been here for so long contributing and who aren't recognized

00:46:27.044 - 00:46:51.129

in the numbers that they should be and and that they paid their dues for so long and they just haven't been collecting the services. Uh, so when did this opportunity arise? The opportunity for me to be a candidate came in 1972 when this county legislative body

00:46:51.550 - 00:47:11.520

had just been approved, the charter had been approved and candidates were filing and I filed as a candidate for the legislature, so I ran. For office in 1972 and those first terms were by charter for two years and then each successive term was designed to be

00:47:11.520 - 00:47:30.020

for four years. So then in 1974 I ran again and will be obliged to run again in 1978. Uh, what are some of the programs that, uh, well, in getting into that and getting into position, you had to get into position. Now the black man had

00:47:30.020 - 00:47:47.409

to get into position to be able to, uh, to, uh, be available for these officers and to know that he had a little backing, enough backing that he might be able to. Well, you're right. See, because it's, it's a numbers game that we play when we

00:47:47.409 - 00:48:02.689

talk about politics. And when I say I had the opportunity to become a candidate, it wasn't just the magic that it sounds. So although anybody has the opportunity. Any time to be a candidate because if you're a citizen and if you're registered and you live in

00:48:02.689 - 00:48:25.030

the area, you can file for any office so long as you fit whatever the the requirements are but the reality of it is that if there are 10 number of people registered in a district and then. A plus B numbers vote. Uh, the candidate that's got

00:48:25.030 - 00:48:44.239

A, which hopefully is the largest number is the candidate who's gonna win. Or in other words, you got X number of people who will be voting. The and and these numbers of candidates running, it's going to be the candidate with the most votes that wins. So

00:48:44.239 - 00:48:59.280

no matter how anxious you are to run or to be a candidate, you've got to convince people to mark that, to pull the lever by your name or punch the little hole on the card by your name to the extent that you get the greatest number

00:48:59.280 - 00:49:17.260

of votes. And so the first time for me, it meant that I Uh, was fortunate enough to, to have the backing of a political organization, which of course was Freedom Incorporated and which had been formed when I mentioned my first involvement came during public accommodations referendum.

00:49:18.189 - 00:49:38.000

That was when the organization felt it's it's, that it had its greatest impact on this community because uh although the organization as a political organization, freedom had been formed and had tried to back candidates, it hadn't had the strong force on making people realize that that.

00:49:38.810 - 00:49:54.209

That that you know that the large numbers of black people existed and could vote in a block or vote a certain way until that particular time and if it had not been for the efforts that Freedom Incorporated put forth in encouraging black people to come together

00:49:54.209 - 00:50:11.955

and say, look, public accommodation. Means you, means you either get accommodated or you don't. And if you care about that, then you'll be out there speaking out and you'll vote yes. And had it not, black people are who put the public accommodations or so because there

00:50:11.955 - 00:50:27.510

were all kinds of groups who were fighting it. And you know, you say the majority of the people were white. So there were good white people, good white people who said it is morally wrong to do this and so we ought to be extending these rights

00:50:27.510 - 00:50:43.270

that These certain inalienable rights that these people are supposed to be born with, OK. But there were a lot more folks who were saying, uh-huh, that is not the way it ought to be, and they were putting forth their efforts and energies to see to it

00:50:43.270 - 00:51:03.169

that it was defeated. And so the black people who were really out there beating and pounding the pavement and pounding the doors and encouraging folks who were apathetic to get out and vote. Uh, because they needed a 2/3 majority, it was accomplished and so that, that

00:51:03.169 - 00:51:18.050

had some real impact on the people who were actually doing it and of course, and on the people who were inspiring that move to say well if I could lead some people in this direction or the folks who whose actual vote was counted in that effort,

00:51:18.439 - 00:51:31.625

everybody felt that it was, it was. Something, a real movement that they had participated in, and that as individuals they had benefited from it. And like I said, a lot of people said, well I may never eat at a restaurant, I may never have to sleep

00:51:31.625 - 00:51:56.159

in a hotel. But I'd like to know if I had the money and I happened to be there, that I would be extended that privilege. OK. Uh, at this point, uh, how has freedom grown? Has freedom grown to live, uh, up to its expectations, uh, in

00:51:56.159 - 00:52:17.169

this day and time? I think it's grown up to its expectations, but I think that those expectations are constantly changing, and that's good. I think that for instance, when Leon Jordan sat down with Bruce Watkins, Leonard Hughes, Marion Food, Howard Moffin, Fred Curls, and Charles Moore,

00:52:17.209 - 00:52:35.729

I believe those were the first group that, you know, gave some, some real. Meaning to the words freedom incorporated and a political entity. They, they had some things in mind that they had some goals. But those goals continue to change. And when we look at the

00:52:35.729 - 00:52:52.949

fact that over those years they said we've got a black community here that needs some representation. There are some people who have some needs, and we need to elect some people that will respond to those needs. And I think that's happened when you think that we've

00:52:52.949 - 00:53:08.729

got members of the state legislature that were elected to serve black people and they, they are representative. They, they black people tell them what to do and they do it. Now they aren't always satisfied all the people are never satisfied all the time and that's true.

00:53:09.100 - 00:53:27.820

But members of the city council, members of the county legislature, all elected through the efforts of Freedom Incorporated and trying to serve this black community to get it to a point where it's recognized this nation over I think means that the goals. That were said in

00:53:27.820 - 00:53:44.699

the beginning have been achieved and I think that an organization continues to strengthen itself and grow as it looks out and how it relates to the total community and and can continue to make changes that are necessary in order to be able to really serve people

00:53:44.699 - 00:54:03.439

like we say that's what we want to do. There was one of my classmateschito, who used to be a member of Freedom and he's You know, in my opinion, a very beautiful person. I haven't, uh, you know, I haven't heard much about him. Someone told me

00:54:03.439 - 00:54:21.939

just this past week that he was supposed to be coming to town. So I don't know if he's here now, but if not, I think they're looking for him, they're expecting him. He is tremendously bright. I didn't know him very well, but the times I had

00:54:21.939 - 00:54:40.000

an opportunity to sit down and talk to him, I realized that he is a very intelligent young man. Uh, well, now what are some of the goals that that are being set now in terms of, uh, where we're going politically in this city? Right, OK, well,

00:54:40.090 - 00:54:56.620

of course, the overall goal, the main goal is to continue to try to serve the needs of people. Now when we think about our people, we are still as a group. Basically poor. I mean the most of our people, now we've got a few people who

00:54:56.620 - 00:55:13.899

are affluent and that's true, but more of our people are still struggling trying to exist than than any other, you know, than the majority group. There, there are poor people everywhere, but there are more if we look at the percentages of white people and the percentages

00:55:13.899 - 00:55:28.310

of blacks, you know that there's still a lot more of our people who are who are down there at the bottom of the scale, so. Our concerns still have to be for employment and for getting our people into the kinds of jobs that are going to

00:55:28.310 - 00:55:44.669

make them earn the kind of living that they ought to be making and it's possible, but it's going to be through some of these processes that we're going through and an example will be to talk to everybody from presidential candidates to the. To the local state

00:55:44.669 - 00:56:02.455

and right here area candidates about what black people want and we're talking about getting them jobs and if it's the federal government we're talking about that full employment bill that Hawkins Humphrey bill that if it passed. is going to mean something that's got 4 or 5

00:56:02.715 - 00:56:22.939

different segments to it, but that really are going to mean something when it comes to being in Kansas City, getting a person a decent job that can really make them a decent living and then. Because I am so concerned about education and young people, I know

00:56:22.939 - 00:56:41.054

that our concerns are going to have to be with the system of public education and what it's delivering or failing to deliver to our children, we just cannot continue. To let this inner city area deteriorate now right as far as education is concerned, of course we

00:56:41.054 - 00:56:59.350

talk about housing and those two are related because the homes in the inner city are deteriorating, which means that that they're being torn down and taken off, taken off the tax roll. And so the district itself is not getting as much money as it once did,

00:56:59.770 - 00:57:17.465

but, but also just the, the conditions of education in our schools as long as we're still producing kids that are reading and writing effectively, and of course I want them to read and write, but I want them to read and write. Effectively right now I get

00:57:17.465 - 00:57:30.584

the feeling that they aren't even reading and writing, period. But I want them to be able to communicate because I know that's the kinds of skills that are going to get them through this life more than just getting by or getting over it, a lot of

00:57:30.584 - 00:57:50.100

them are doing right now. And Well, those, those are the major concerns, the major goals that we'll have, and then each of us will have some special concerns. I think that there are some of us who continue to be concerned about the conditions in the prisons

00:57:50.399 - 00:58:07.659

when we think in terms of the conditions that someone incarcerated has to exist within and under. If you don't know, if you don't know anything about it, you can tend to say, oh well, they did a crime against society and they put them away and they

00:58:07.659 - 00:58:24.429

belong there. But then when you think as a human being that there's something inhuman happening to another human being, you have to care and be concerned that there are not the kinds of programs going on in prisons that are going to make people return to society

00:58:24.429 - 00:58:40.159

and be useful. So, uh, and then there are going to be some of us like me who have special concerns about older people and know that we just barely scratching the surface. I've got some concerns in addition to just old people because first of all I

00:58:40.159 - 00:58:52.959

think about a lot of old people who live in Wayne Minor, and I know that I've been down there on one or two occasions to visit a few of them, but there are a lot of them that don't know I exist and could really benefit by

00:58:52.959 - 00:59:11.750

some of the programs we have being extended to them. And um I think that there's just a lot more we can be doing there, the conditions under which they live are just intolerable. If some of us had to live under them, we'd probably be gone, and

00:59:12.409 - 00:59:29.159

yes, yes. And uh so there are just a lot of things as far as old people are concerned and the whole business of public housing and that's not just for older people, but I'm concerned with all the things that happen to old people but again they

00:59:29.159 - 00:59:44.600

spill over into other things and when I said it just made me think about the housing authority and And uh some of its policies that maybe ought to be looked at a little more closely because it does affect the way people live on a day to

00:59:44.600 - 00:59:59.959

day basis. And if we can ever do something about the high utility rates, now that's something we can join hands with. I talked to a woman very recently and they're getting an initiative petition and I've got a copy of the petition here and they're going to

01:00:00.280 - 01:00:21.260

start a movement here this right here. And that's gonna be the only way we're gonna get some relief. Uh, To amend Chapter 393 revised statute of Missouri relating to the regulation of rates charged by electrical corporations by adding one new section there to relating to the

01:00:21.260 - 01:00:41.050

definition of unjust and unreasonable charges by electrical corporations. You know, our poor people can't afford to pay their light bills, their utility bills, they just go, but the companies just Are, are allowed to increase their rates and the bills just go soaring and all they do

01:00:41.050 - 01:00:55.010

is just struggle from one month to the next and just like we were talking earlier, somebody like my grandmother could say, well, she paid all her bills, but her utilities just keep on going until death. Um. And old people on fixed income are just poor people

01:00:55.010 - 01:01:14.145

generally. The rates go sky high and they skyrocket and they have, they're, other bills that must be met besides just the utilities and of course it's just really uh uh amazing that they can tell you that well they have to charge these rates because they have

01:01:14.145 - 01:01:28.024

to to uh produce dividends for some more rich people so somehow out of those dividends I think we ought to be able to come up with some relief for the people who need it the most and hope this may this is just one effort they're probably

01:01:28.024 - 01:01:29.064

gonna need to be.