00:00:21.440 - 00:00:40.419

OK, Joe. Miss Hinton, yes, uh, tell me your full name and when you came to Kansas City. OK. My name is Mary Louise Hinton. And my maiden name was Straws. And do you want me to go on and tell you where about where I was coming

00:00:40.419 - 00:01:05.500

from? All right. I was born in Deer River, Minnesota. Uh, wait, wait, OK, miss it. Keep your eyes on me. OK. And talk to me. Just talk to me. Um-hum. Tell me the story. Can somebody can stand there with a notebook. No. No. All right. I

00:01:05.500 - 00:01:26.360

knew you were going to say that. OK. You're gonna be fine. Go ahead, your ass. Just relax. Come on. I feel like crying. OK. Uh, Miss Hinton, uh, tell me when you came to Westport and where did you come from? I came from Deer River, Minnesota.

00:01:27.879 - 00:01:55.779

And uh it was in uh. Wait a minute. I, oh, Wait a minute. Listen, what if I scan that a minute so I can collect something? And just go on and say it. All right. All right. My name is Mary Louise Hinton. I was born in

00:01:55.779 - 00:02:16.369

Deer River, Minnesota. I don't think these are gonna work I keep going. Oh, Oh, mercy. I'm so, oh, I'm just so, see, I, I, I didn't, I, see, I really thought that. Now, Ms. Hinton, you came to Kansas City, uh, back in the 40s or was

00:02:16.369 - 00:02:35.610

it a little bit earlier? When you came to Kansas City, it was in 1932. In 1936. Now, OK, and, uh, now you got off the, um, came by train, and then how did you get out to Westport? I didn't get out in Westport. I went on

00:02:35.610 - 00:02:50.610

the east side. My mother, first, see, there are things that I really feel are are important for me to get over. Uh, uh, I, I learned right then and there that there were, there were certain ways you're treated. And one of the things was the fact

00:02:50.610 - 00:03:10.399

that um we um uh my mother. Set up, uh, uh, she called, I tell you, this is just a Oh, I'll just do this and then you could maybe we can clear out some of the stuff. Uh, but when we got off the train. Uh, we,

00:03:10.839 - 00:03:25.779

my, we, we saw my mother was waiting for us. Uh, there, there was a little ugly green car that that she motioned to to come over because this, it was the first time I understood, realized that what, you know, what, what, uh, prejudice was because yellow

00:03:25.779 - 00:03:41.679

cabs would not go over to the east side of Kansas City. And so, uh, so that was one of the things that I said we were, we, we apprised of, you know. And uh then we, we, we, let's see, we went. I'm, I am, I'm just,

00:03:41.889 - 00:03:58.580

there isn't. I'm gonna try not to cry. Cover. Now, what about the jitney cabs you used to talk about? Well, there's nothing to talk about. It was a jitney cab and it took us over over on the east side of Kansas City where the black community

00:03:58.580 - 00:04:12.759

was and, and let us out and that was. I never saw the jitney cab again. OK. And what was the black community like back then? Uh, uh, the thing of it is, I don't have any frame of reference except for black people are living there because

00:04:12.759 - 00:04:28.390

I had never lived in any in any kind of any kind of black community because I lived in Minnesota, in northern Minnesota. And so, uh, now what street did you live on where your mother lived on when you came to Kansas City? Uh, uh, she lived

00:04:28.390 - 00:04:43.929

on, I think she said it was 23rd Street or some something like that over on the east side. OK, now what, uh, how has, uh, the street step toe been a part of your life? Uh, I, we, uh, let's see, 11 of the houses that we

00:04:43.929 - 00:05:02.690

lived in was at 401 Steptoe, and that, uh, the, the, the block one was made up of, of, let's say about 4 or 5 blocks, and it went up to the end of, uh, uh, of, of 43rd Street. Uh, eventually what happened was that, um, uh,

00:05:02.750 - 00:05:18.410

when the city was they were naming streets, they decided that they would make that Forty-Third Street terrorists, so they just tore up. I, I was just, we were, we were all very unhappy about it. They tore the, the, the, uh, signs out of the street that

00:05:18.410 - 00:05:36.959

said Steptoe Avenue. Now Penn School, was that close to uh Steptoe Street or where was Penn School? Penn School was right on on the traffic the big street that came down, went down to the plaza because it was behind behind uh the area where Plaza Laundry

00:05:36.959 - 00:05:53.079

was. And did you have any children go to Penn school? Uh, no, I did not. I went to attend school. I was 12 years old when I, and I had, didn't have, didn't have any children then. So you went to Penn school. Yeah, I went to

00:05:53.079 - 00:06:09.829

Penn School. Well, what was it like? Who were some of the teachers? Uh, I, I can remember Mr. Pugh. I don't remember the other, other, other teachers. There were several. I, I think in the, in the class and, uh, uh, uh, now and then one thing

00:06:09.829 - 00:06:27.040

that I do remember is my mother took me downtown to the Board of Education. She told them that I had attended, uh, the 7th grade and passed the 7th grade in Duluth, Minnesota. And uh and uh so uh uh uh they they proceeded to inform her

00:06:27.299 - 00:06:41.730

that it didn't matter. I had to go to Penn school. Now, the thing we did, we were both upset about that, but in retrospect, I'm glad I had the experience. And about how many rooms did Penn School have? 3. They had 3 rooms. That's right. And

00:06:41.730 - 00:07:01.429

now, uh, it was segregated, all black. Absolutely. What else could it be at that time? Well, now, uh, what, what, uh, kind of restrictions did, uh, black people have to, uh, observe back, uh, then? What kind of what? Uh, segregation restrictions. Could you go on the

00:07:01.429 - 00:07:15.630

plaza? Could you shop anywhere you wanted to? Of course. There there wasn't any problem about that. We talked on thirty-ninth of May. We shopped where we had money for, you know, if we had money to spend, we're able to spend, then we could shop where we

00:07:15.630 - 00:07:34.220

wanted to. But uh uh mainly we shopped, we, we didn't have to go worry about the plaza because we didn't have plaza money. And so we shopped in Thirty-ninth and Main between Main and Forty-third Street. I mean, but yeah. Uh, I, I, no, yeah, no, I

00:07:34.220 - 00:07:48.579

don't know whether it's that far down, but anyhow, there were shops over there and, uh, the, uh, little shops that they had around the country, there were, there were many of them over there. I remember going in one store and, uh, the young woman, I told

00:07:48.579 - 00:08:00.220

her that I wanted a green dress and so she brought me a red dress because, of course I was black, so I should be liking red and, and I was very calm and peaceful. And I remember, I'm, I was just a teenager then, but I certainly

00:08:00.220 - 00:08:15.350

would like to have preached her a sermon. Now I talk about sermons. Uh, there were two churches, uh, in Westport, right? That's right, Saint James Baptist Church and, uh, Saint Luke Methodist Church. Did you go to one of them? I went to the, well, when, when

00:08:15.350 - 00:08:32.690

I, it was funny when I first came, uh, came, we got, we started living in the neighborhood. Um, the, the Methodist Church seemed a little reserved. I mean, the people that were there, so I was, uh, was, was a little blurry about, uh, uh, staying there.

00:08:32.739 - 00:08:46.754

So I, so I went, started attending the, uh, the, uh, the Baptist Church, and one of the Things that happened at the Baptist church I have never forgotten is that uh they had a BYPU Baptist Young People's Union, uh, a meeting, a group that met, you

00:08:46.754 - 00:09:00.794

know, that they were your teenagers, and, uh, one the first meeting I went there, I saw this, this, this, this white girl with red hair, and, uh, and I was so surprised because I didn't know what she was doing there. Well, she had come from a

00:09:00.794 - 00:09:14.640

little town and her mother was white, but her father was black. And so she came and she lived right next to where the Baptist Church is is today and, uh, and so, and that was not her mother, that was a that was a relative who said

00:09:14.640 - 00:09:28.849

who let her, she, she, she had her come in and stay with her live with her. So black and white people kind of live together. No, no, that's so funny because the thing of it is, all the, uh, the, the, now when I think about it,

00:09:29.090 - 00:09:45.989

there, there was one family, the Brewers, and they weren't a family, just, just a husband and wife. They lived on Broadway, uh, just the corner from from where I lived at 401. And, uh, they, now they were an elderly couple, very nice. And I remember one

00:09:45.989 - 00:09:59.296

time when I stopped by to say. of Mrs. Brewer. Uh, she told me that, uh, she had told my mother that there was a man that would stop by and leave mail in my mailbox, you know, and it wasn't the mailman. And so I told her

00:09:59.296 - 00:10:14.142

that was my boyfriend who became my husband eventually. And so then she left. She thought that was neat. And then, uh, uh, see, there was, uh, something. There was no, that was, but that was the only white family that was in that immediate area. And see,

00:10:14.161 - 00:10:30.002

the thing of it is, there were a lot of, a lot of black people were packed in there because we were just like this, you know, like that. And, uh, and so, so it was it the people, the black people in Kansas City didn't, most of

00:10:30.002 - 00:10:44.630

them didn't, they didn't know Westport existed. And, and then when we, you know, like when I went to high school. Uh, the kids down there thought maybe we were lying about where we lived, you know, and thought we probably lived in Janet, of course, but we

00:10:44.630 - 00:11:03.190

really, truly did live there. And, uh, and one of the things that happened, uh, there is that there was a rule. Now, since we were so far away from the entertainment area for most people, I mean most black people who lived in the outer area, then,

00:11:03.200 - 00:11:18.784

um, uh, the, the parents. Parents agreed that the children could have their weekend parties. That was a Friday night party, and you had 10 minutes to get home from the party because if you didn't get home from the party and the party was were over at

00:11:18.784 - 00:11:33.650

12 o'clock, and, and if you didn't get home when when in that length of time, then you didn't go to the next party. We didn't have any problem with attendance. They were very good about that, you know. Now, when did you get married? I got married

00:11:33.650 - 00:11:49.590

on May 21st. Uh, 0 Lord, give me my paper and tell me when I got married. 193 1938. 0, that's right, I was, I was, I was just had been out of high school a year, so I, so I, uh, and, uh, uh, we lived, now

00:11:49.590 - 00:12:07.099

we lived in Westport. Uh, my mother had been, uh, uh, cook and manager at the high school, so we moved downtown for a while after when Carl and I got married, and we came out and we lived in Westport, and, uh, then when, uh, uh, the,

00:12:07.109 - 00:12:26.549

uh, we, we, let's see now, I'm trying to think. Of the, our, our daughter, who, who is dead now, uh, was born January 12th, 19. 40, I think it was. I see I'm 87. I don't remember anything. And anyhow, uh, uh, the thing with it is

00:12:26.650 - 00:12:46.369

is we, we, we really, it was so funny because we were so relieved that Sharon was born on the 12th of January. And she, she fortunately they had missed, didn't have to worry about the, the, the, the, this shanty that was, was the hospital for black

00:12:46.369 - 00:12:59.929

people. And so, so Sharon was born in, in, in, uh, uh, what is that? I can't, I can't remember the name of the center. I mean, of the, of the building, you know, uh, but anyhow, she was able to and I was so thankful for that

00:12:59.929 - 00:13:16.580

because the other building was just, it was just terrible. And how many children, uh, uh, do you have? I have, I've had two children. There were 21 years between my son, my daughter and my son, and, uh, he is, uh, uh, let's see, Gary will be

00:13:16.580 - 00:13:32.450

47 in December. And, uh, oh, and, and I must share this, uh, naturally, all my friends were almost they, they could not believe that I was having a child and then well, I didn't, couldn't believe it myself, but anyhow, uh, when Sharon when Gary was about

00:13:32.450 - 00:13:48.039

3 years old, then I taught him something, so I would say to my friends, ask Gary what he is, and Gary would say, I'm a constant source of joy and delight. And of course And of course, everyone looked, they looked at me and they looked in

00:13:48.039 - 00:14:07.320

then they howled because they thought I'm going to be crazy. But, but I stayed home for 10 years and I, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Uh, uh, some, some, uh, group of white women ran, they had a, had a private, uh, preschool and, uh, they ran an

00:14:07.320 - 00:14:20.440

ad in the Kansas City Star. I mean, it's Kansas City Hall and because it was in the call that that said to me, well then they will admit black children. So I filled out an application and I paid my little application and money and everything. We

00:14:20.440 - 00:14:36.789

went on to, so, so Gary could be in the school. And uh each mother was uh was expected to volunteer 11, you know, once a week and we, we uh rotated, you know, but, but see, Gary was the one child whose mother was there every week

00:14:36.789 - 00:14:53.609

because I just wanted to be sure everything was straight and everything, you know. And it was, it, it was an enjoyable experience. The, uh, uh, people who were, who launched the idea were, were, were really sincere in what they wanted to do. And, uh, and, and

00:14:53.609 - 00:15:10.460

so I was glad that Gary had the had the experience. And who were some of the your neighbors across the street on each side of you, uh, way back? Then, well, now I told you about the brewers and uh, and there was a, there was a

00:15:10.460 - 00:15:27.369

family that lived right straight across in front in front of them. There was, uh, Miss Sweeney. And then, and she had a daughter and, uh, and, and, and her husband and then her, her mother-in-law. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not, not that I can't really say

00:15:27.369 - 00:15:40.969

that because as I say I, I don't, it's too long ago and I don't remember, but anyhow they live there and then, uh, uh, the, uh, um, Dillard's lived in one of the houses going up the street and, uh, uh, let me see, and then, and

00:15:40.969 - 00:15:59.020

then, and then I, the missed the principal of the school, he And his wife lived down, down on, uh, I think down on Broadway. I'm not sure, but, but, but there were, you know, there were, as I say, uh, beca because of the, the way the

00:15:59.020 - 00:16:14.299

way the boundary was, it made it, it was really like a little, a little individual world. And you say you stayed at home for almost 10 years? Yes, no, I, I, no, there wasn't any almost to it. I stayed home until Gary was 10 years old.

00:16:15.099 - 00:16:30.250

Now, did, uh, what's, what, what, uh, where did you work, uh, I didn't work. I stayed home to take care of my child. Did you, uh, what about Lincoln, uh, uh, did you ever work in the cafeteria? I was after my mother, first of all, my

00:16:30.250 - 00:16:44.450

mother was hired as a cook there and then she was made the manager. And, uh, and then when she died, I, I, I, they made me manager. Now the thing that was interesting to me because, uh, you know, I was so thrilled later about it. They

00:16:44.450 - 00:17:00.489

never did hire a cashier. So, so I did the managing, managing job and the cashier's job. But I, that's, you know, par for the course, if you're, you know, if you're black. So, now was that, uh, that's Lincoln High School. Lincoln High School. OK. And, uh,

00:17:00.580 - 00:17:16.760

do you remember any, uh, students who went there, uh, Doctor Cameron? Well, he was, we, he and I graduated together. Yes, I remember him very well. I talked to him every every once in a while. Now y'all went to Lincoln High School and then we were

00:17:16.760 - 00:17:33.099

our class was the first class out of the new brand new Lincoln High School. Now we're getting ready for a reunion and if I'm ambulatory, I will attend, if not, I won't. That's the 70th year. We've 70, 70 years ago, we graduated from high school. And

00:17:33.099 - 00:17:49.609

uh you had to go to Lincoln uh High School because of segregation. Oh, of course, because there were, there, there was, there was no other school you could go to. See, there was the Westport High School and uh uh but, but we had to go down,

00:17:49.709 - 00:18:03.010

we got the streetcar when I wrote a letter to the Star one time and someone had a mitigated gall to uh talk about. They never heard about them, you know, they, they, they uh uh uh uh getting money to go down to the school and I

00:18:03.010 - 00:18:16.069

made it plain and clear that the person was totally Mistaken because we had to get our own streetcar passes. There was no one to give us any kind of car fare or nothing. We just had to ride the car, you know, ride, ride ride the bus.

00:18:16.270 - 00:18:29.880

No, no, ride the streetcar and to go to Lincoln High School. But now my class, that was class 37, we were the first ones out of the brand new Lincoln High School up on the city on the hill. And so, uh, so, uh, that was, we,

00:18:29.949 - 00:18:45.829

we were very proud of that. Now, uh, you mentioned that you wrote The Star. Are you a writer to the Star? Oh, and listen, I, every time I looked up, I was writing something to the Star, and, uh, and I, and, and I had such a

00:18:45.829 - 00:18:59.265

ball and the thing now, and one of the things that I that I have, uh, have, have, have in my mind is now, you know, as I, as I've told you. Now I am 87 years old and I have every good intention of, of, uh, outliving

00:18:59.265 - 00:19:19.469

the oldest Delaney sister. Now she was 109 when she died, so what I'm anticipating is that when I die, I will be 110 years old. My picture will be on the front page of the Kansas City Star and the headline will be, She made it. Uh,

00:19:26.689 - 00:19:51.930

Well, I'm sure it will be. See, see, everybody thinks it's funny, but it's true. Uh, Miss Hinton, uh, Now, uh, you know, we're doing this, uh, this program for one celebration. There are gonna be many celebrations about Westport. Uh, what do you think of the, um,

00:19:52.469 - 00:20:10.709

does, uh, the Kansas, does the Saint Luke Hospital owe the community anything to help celebrate and make sure that it's remembered? Well, I'll tell you one thing. I'm gonna bring me a little. I was, I was just crushed when I didn't get anything, anything about this.

00:20:10.800 - 00:20:26.439

Now I've, I'm, I have, have, uh, when, when the, um, uh, uh, the idea came up for having a, a, a Penn School memorial, well, the thing is now the two other women in the program, neither of them were interested in working with Jeremiah was the

00:20:26.439 - 00:20:42.979

chairman of, of, of, of the English department. And, and in junior college and uh uh no and who the other and Art was living in in um up east and taking care of his company and so I was the one that did the running around and

00:20:42.979 - 00:21:01.489

making the appointments and everything you know and I thought, I thought. Nobody even asked me. And I was just very, very unhappy. But I'm, well, I'm feeling better about it. You're feeling better. Now, what else would you like to see happen to make sure that the

00:21:01.489 - 00:21:17.089

community is, uh, lives in the memory of many people. Well, see, here's the matter. There, there, there really isn't any too much to me that because not, not that, that, that can be done for that kind of thing because in the first place, now just like

00:21:17.550 - 00:21:33.839

I, I live at 4315 Pennsylvan, as you know, and Reginald Fisher lives down on, uh, 43rd Street. We are the only two houses left in, in, in there, and, uh, when I remember when, um, one of my, uh, uh, 11 of. Students that I was friends

00:21:33.839 - 00:21:51.239

with, uh, uh, Doctor Roger's son, uh, he, he came up for a concert and Ricky had his, his sister and her husband pick me up and come back. And when, when we got home that evening, the, the, the, the sister said, Mrs. Hinton, do you mind

00:21:51.239 - 00:22:05.319

living in a parking lot? And I said no, I do not mind them in any parking lot. I love it. And, uh, and the thing of it is now and, and, and the, the, the, the, uh, see what the with the what they did was they,

00:22:05.430 - 00:22:24.130

the money that they, they paid me for, for, uh, for, for the, the, the house was. money that what what they put in a trust. And so I get the, the, it's the annuity from and I have lifetime occupancy, you know. And see, of course, they

00:22:24.130 - 00:22:39.979

didn't know that I was going to outlive the the the the the normal people, you know, see, and so, but they, they, they have been extremely kind to me. And uh they take care of my yard and uh uh that they and, and, and, and there

00:22:39.979 - 00:23:01.209

are, there are other things that they they do that I that I'm really grateful for. And I, and I intend to be there until I die. At 110. That's right. That's right. Um, now, uh, you mentioned Doctor Rogers. Uh, uh, did he live in Westport? Uh,

00:23:01.250 - 00:23:16.790

no, no, no, he had nothing to do with Westport. No, no, mm. Now what were um some of the fun things other than the party uh that y'all used to do as teenagers and youngsters in Kansas City? Now, now, here's the thing about it. These, these

00:23:16.790 - 00:23:27.790

are, these are have parties at home. So you came and if you had, if you had an open space, you had a little, a little dancer, you have the food and everything, but there was nothing in it, it really it it it. Exciting or anything like

00:23:27.790 - 00:23:39.229

that about it. It was just something that you did. And because we were so far away from the east side of Kansas City, then, uh, uh, we did have that, you know, and there were, see there, and there were so many people who they didn't even

00:23:39.229 - 00:23:58.430

know there was there was an island out there, you know, and, uh, so, uh, so we, we felt very possessive about it. Now did you go down to 18th and Vine, 12th and Vine? Not when I was a teenager. No, when we got around to something,

00:23:58.449 - 00:24:17.739

what, you know, after because I married right a year after I came out of high school. So then, and we would go, you know, some places, but, uh, uh, it was, it, it, it, as I say, for, for. Oh, for, for this socializing, we had, we

00:24:17.739 - 00:24:32.609

each one we had our own groups. Now, what about the Swope Park and Fairyland Park? Uh, so what, what did you say? Uh, did you go out to Slope Park? Well, yes, I went out there and, and I remember that, that the hill, that was where

00:24:32.609 - 00:24:49.280

the, the black people had to stay, you know, and, uh, and I remember when I, when, when, when I, uh, was a member of the Celebrons Club, uh, when, when they, they had a mates and dates party and, uh, and, and a picnic rather, and, and,

00:24:49.310 - 00:25:02.760

um, uh, oh. In this office, I can't remember. 11 of the club members had, she made it her business to come 2 or 3 times down, down to where this, where the the the the the road was at so, so that my husband and I would

00:25:02.760 - 00:25:17.640

not, we, we, we wouldn't have to worry about missing the Friday. There was a comrade that just was just different. The club that I was in had many other things. I was the only one from Westport who was in it, but there there was this feeling

00:25:17.640 - 00:25:36.959

of uh of friendship. And so I enjoyed that. And what was the name of the club? The Celebrons. And what was the purpose? The social club. Social club. Uh-huh. And uh did y'all sort of have meetings uh at homes or at at places homes at homes.

00:25:37.650 - 00:25:57.209

And then, uh, and, and we had, we had some like we had some projects or something we were there was and, and listen, remember, now I have told you I'm 87 years old. I don't remember the full details. Well, now, uh, streetcars and buses was the

00:25:57.209 - 00:26:16.469

way you got around, uh, town, and, uh, so, uh, going out to the plaza or, uh, across town was and and school was by a streetcar. Well, we walked to the plaza because we're right up the hill from the plaza, and so there wasn't any question

00:26:16.469 - 00:26:31.280

about that. And, but if you, and when, when we would catch the country club, uh, streetcar and, and go downtown and you, and then you, you were, you were in all of the stores available to you there. Now, uh, just a little bit more about your

00:26:31.280 - 00:26:50.900

parents. About what? Your parents, your parents. Oh. What do you remember about them? Uh, my mother and, uh, uh, let's see, now my, my, my father was born in, um, I, he, he, he was born in Deer River. My mother was born in Duluth, and, uh,

00:26:51.000 - 00:27:04.380

my father came, well, he, he, he and my mother married, and they stayed there, and they, then we had, and my brother and I were born there, and then we moved to Duluth, and, uh, and so, and then my father died and then my mother came

00:27:04.380 - 00:27:18.459

down to Kansas City because her stepmother, that's the reason she still, she came to the slave state, you know, and so, and, and believe me, it was, it was, it was, it was so interesting to me because Uh, uh, totally estranged from anything we'd ever been

00:27:18.459 - 00:27:34.949

exposed to, you know. And we didn't know how, what it was and how bad it was and how still bad it is, you know, worse. Now what are some of the um little treasures or scrapbooks that you have about uh Westport that uh is very important?

00:27:35.109 - 00:27:52.510

Well, no, no, no the one here's the thing about the the the book that I'm talking about is a book about school because, uh, uh, uh, now Mrs. Winfrey was, um, uh, not sure, she, her daughter, uh, and, and her son. Uh, uh, uh, were, were,

00:27:52.520 - 00:28:08.359

had, had gone to the school and, uh, and so, and, and, and, and perchance I, as I say, since they call themselves, you know, I don't, you know, that I, I could never figure out the rationale for thinking that, that Penn School would, would compete with

00:28:08.359 - 00:28:23.170

the school that I had gone to in Minnesota. So, so, so, but, but, but at the age that I was, uh, there was not, I didn't have any real. Very strong feelings about no what not wanting to go to and then and then it was just

00:28:23.170 - 00:28:39.875

exciting having it to and seeing that and hearing about it, you know, and reading about the fact that the woman who finally the white woman who finally, uh, was, was the one who provided the, the, the, the beginning funds for even. Having the Penn School, you

00:28:39.875 - 00:28:54.275

know, and so, uh, and I remember when, uh, uh, the school was burned down. I was, I was stood up on the top of the hill watching down there, you know, and, uh, so, and I thought that was sad, and, but, uh, uh, it was a

00:28:54.275 - 00:29:09.699

part of being, uh, as I say, in, in, in a slave state, a former slave state. Now, uh, I, I know you, uh, wrote many letters to the start. Do you have any of those letters in your scrapbook? Yeah. No, I have some of them, Right,

00:29:09.859 - 00:29:26.880

right, it was, but I, this, this, this, it was, I really enjoyed writing letters and I haven't, I, I, I enjoyed people questioning me why, why I wrote such and such a thing, you know, you know, and I said stir them up. You know, did you

00:29:26.880 - 00:29:48.479

ever make anybody mad, city officials? Well, I don't know, but I couldn't care less. Anybody ever come to your house? No. Oh, heavens, no. Uh, no, huh-uh. Well, uh, so you became the historian and spokesman for the community. Well, now, see that, that puts it at

00:29:48.479 - 00:30:01.255

a, at a higher level than that really was, uh, as I say, I really did enjoy writing the letters. I enjoyed people responding, and making, saying what I said was. Such as blah blah, you know, and and so and I really got a kick out of

00:30:01.255 - 00:30:16.959

it and uh uh uh uh but as I say, as time marched, well, as time marched on and, and it got the marching got slower and slower and slower and so not, so I, I can't even remember when I've written the letters to the start. Well,

00:30:17.000 - 00:30:36.849

now, uh, tell me some of the things that you can remember. I just wanna hear them from you. Tell me some things that you just wanna say about living in Westport. Anything. wait, wait, wait, pause for stating that their identification, man. Let me look through that

00:30:36.849 - 00:31:05.790

here and see what I can remember that I can remember that I could that I could relate to you. I wish you could have done. OK. Tell me about you being born in Deer River, Minnesota. Right on. Uh, I was born in Deer River, Minnesota, and,

00:31:05.800 - 00:31:22.459

uh, my brother was too. And uh uh we were, we were both of us were born at at at different times at at in in uh uh uh the the right in the home that that was in there and I remember when um I had we

00:31:22.890 - 00:31:36.800

we, we, I took uh Gary up there it was, I don't know why it's. And we never did get up there, but anyhow, took Gary up there and, um, uh, one day, uh, the, the day that we were, we were going to meet, uh, the, the

00:31:36.800 - 00:31:52.609

lady's husband, he was within a business and, and it was close to the, the, um, the train station. And when it was so funny because this man saw me take a picture of this train station, you know, I had told so many people about Deer River,

00:31:52.680 - 00:32:04.290

Minnesota and I just wanted to make sure they knew that I wasn't lying. So I took a picture of Deer River, Minnesota and he said, whatever happened to Johnny Butler? Because he knew if I was black and I was taking that picture and, and, and, and,

00:32:04.369 - 00:32:24.219

and I, because I told him I was, you know, I had, I had a relative there. So he knew that. So he knew that I must be a relative. What was, uh, what was significant about your birth in Minnesota in Deer River? You say significant. Yes,

00:32:24.380 - 00:32:38.989

yeah, at the very first, I was the first black child and my brother was the second black child, and no more were ever born there. OK. Can you tell us what was family life like in Westport, not just