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This is Edward Scott of the Black Archives of Mid-America. Uh, interviewing Allie Gates, president of, uh, Gates and Sons Cooperation. Uh. I'm interviewing Mr. Gates at his uh location at Forty-seventh and Pasal. Uh, Mr. Gates, when were you born? July 3, 1931. And where? Kansas City,

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Missouri. Uh, Where were you educated? Were you educated in Kansas City area? Uh Douglas Elementary School, Charles Sumner Elementary. RT Cole Jr. and vocational High School. At Lincoln High School in Kansas City. Mm. That's my, Elementary and secondary education. College education. University of Maryland Eastern Shore

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or what is was termed at that time was Maryland State College and I graduated from Lincoln University. Mm Uh, now, uh, what of your parents. Were they born here in Kansas City? My dad was born in Chattanooga, Tennessee. He was moved here at age 3 months

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old. My mother was born here in Rosedale, Kansas. And what is their name? My dad's name was George W. Gates. And my mother's maiden name was Aria June Smith. You were saying that you didn't know very much about Uh, the, uh, the history of your family

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other than And your father and mother. Uh there's not much history to my family. Mother's dad, I understand. was also a native son, but he died when she was young. And I don't know any background to that family. My dad. Parents, his mother died in childbirth.

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Father unknown. Hm. Uh, how did you happen to get into the, uh, barbecue business? How's your family? Uh Well, my dad was there At the time that went in the barbecue place was there. A, uh, general contractor, uh, home in Mario in for and uh Physical

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ailments caused him not to be able to continue in that capacity, so he went into business for himself. He did, uh, hold other jobs prior to that time becoming a general contractor. He went in the barbecue business per se. In the year 1945. Because of health

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reasons, he went into a lighter type of work, which at that time was this type of business type of business. And that's the reason we Go. The, uh, family had to go in because of my dad. Um. Uh, how was that, uh, initiated? Did, uh, just,

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uh, he and your mother, uh, operate the, uh, the place of goodness? Where was the first, uh, Gates barbecue initially? He took over a, or he bought a Speakeasy in 19th combine which at that time was known as Old Johnny's Old Kentucky barbecue. Uh oak and

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tuck apartment barbecue. And uh My dad. To his association with a former Worker with him at another job they brought him together into this one facility and my dad brought that particular individual out. He was in the barbecue business there alone. He turned that speakeasy. Into

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a barbecue business. OK. Which was saying, They did, they call themselves a barbecue place, but it really wasn't. Speaking. Uh, do you have any, uh, recollect recollection of, uh, of the kind of atmosphere and so forth that was, that was surrounding that area in 19 1955.

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In the year 145, 1945, we must understand that Kansas City was completely segregated. And it Being that uh we were in the heart of the, the black metropolis of 18th and 5 or 19th. Mhm. That uh we were right where the black action was. And we

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grew from black action, late night action is where our business stemmed from. Initially, we opened at 3 o'clock in the afternoon and closed at 3 in the morning. That carry over Is even today, the 3 o'clock in the morning, the only day. Now at 11 in

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the morning to pick up the complete business of the barbecue business anything other than the restaurant. Mm. There was a lot of, A lot of activity in that area in terms of, uh, That was one of the key locations of jazz locations. A lot of talk

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about 18th 19. Well, during that time, that was the, that was the place, 1809. That was the center of all recreational activity for blacks, not only recreational, like commercialism. A lot of black restaurants. During those times you had more black restaurants. And black recreational facilities than

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you do today in 1976. For the reason that black had to trade with black people because they couldn't spend their dollars anywhere else. This has a two-way advantage, of course, but uh. Uh, being that that was the case, then we were there to. Except Those facilities

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at hand and those persons that we could cater to. Now this doesn't leave the fact out that White people did patronize us at that time, but they could come to black joints. It was the fact that we could not go to their facility. That actually enhance.

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Uh. Now, how long were you, We were there six years from 1945 to 1951. In 1909, we had a fire in October '51. That burned that facility down and we moved to 24th and Brooklyn. And the facility now that's another barbecue business that we stayed in.

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1951 until 1957 at that particular location, which was another. Opened up another one that uh during that time at 12th and Highland and we had two running at that time. At what stage did did you really actually become involved in the business? I became involved when

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my dad went in in 1945. The amount of involvement as a boy compared to how much involvement it is today is a different source. But I was, I was involved from the time that my dad opened the door. In fact, I graduated. College and the building

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trade because I was working with my dad. In the construction business. And I thought that would be my endeavor in life. Consequently, when he went into the barbecue business and uh, I was still in the building trade and that's my trade has been used to build

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the facilities that we're in now and that's about the extent of my college degree. Got the 1st place at 12th in Brooklyn. In 1957 Consequently, his dad died in 1960. And uh diversified for a while. From 1961 to 1970, I was in the nightclub business primarily.

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Uh, at the same time, uh, how was the, how was the, uh, business, the, uh, barbecue? Mhm. With the facility at 12th in Brooklyn was being run by my mother and sister. That time that I was running a nightclub and barbecue facility at 31st and Indiana.

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60s. And from the barbecue restaurant of Gates and Sons. Notation to give it a distinction between the one at 12th and Brooklyn. He picked up the connotation gates and son. That one is the one that has carried on being incorporated Gates and Son that has moved

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into the other three facilities. How many, uh, Members living in your family? Uh, your brothers and sisters. There were two girls and myself. I'm the youngest, um, 2 older sisters, one of friends. He And Gwend of them. Of them being married. One here, one of this

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here. Working in the facility at 12th in Brooklyn. The other girl Gwendolyn. Long. Uh, When did you decide, how did you happen to decide to Kind of, uh, come out of the nightclub, Um Business and really You do it all the time. Pa. Well, We know

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that in the course of time, That a guy can only run a nightclub business for a certain length of years. Because of the Constant wave of new ideas and new facilities and new Areas of the city opening up that that wasn't a long lasting enterprise as

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far as I was. While we were in the bar in the nightclub business, the barbecue business has started to grow. So rather than expand into the nightclub area, which I would sooner or later have to. I thought I'd devote all my time and attention to those

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facilities that would cause me to have a lifetime occupation in a good solid field because in the barbecue field. The longer you stand. The better off you are. The older that you get in the business, the more knowledge people think you have. So consequently this was

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the better of the two choices that I had at the time. That's the reason I devoted all my time and attention. To the barbecue identity and as the barbecue, barbecue business group. Then I expanded with that thought. What needed to be or the direction of the

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growth. Mm And now you have, um, You have children. I have 5 children. Do you want the name? Yes, sir. The oldest is Aria Faith. Second girl is Ingrid. The 3rd child is Kiva. She's also a girl. George is uh The first boy and Malali. Youngest

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of the five. My wife's name is Maureen G. Formerly Maureen Shepherd, who I went to high school in Kansas City. How long were you, how long have you been married? I was married at 52. So approximately 24 years. Uh, now, what, what, uh, uh, level of

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involvement are your children in, in the, uh, in the business? I have one of the 5 involved on a salary basis who's a Payroll. Clerk. The other Two girls, one's in school and one's a showgirl. Graduated from the university, San Diego and drama and Third girl.

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And Howard University in school now. The law. The boy is in the University of Nevada in Las Vegas. He Studying at this time hotel restaurant management. The baby boy is mentally retarded. He's in a school for exceptional children in Columbia. Uh, now how many facilities do

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you have at this time? Under the heading of Gates and Sons Barbecue, there are 3 facilities and a commissary. Under the complete title of Gates and on the sport. Uh, I noticed that you've gone into, uh, you've also gone into the sauce business, sauce business, yes,

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the last 2.5 years we've been into the. Into trying to put our sauce on this local supermarket shelves to Promote the identity of Gates and Sons one as, as a steady flow of advertisement. And secondly, because of the commissary. Idleness, idle space and we decided to

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do something else because we had this building as the headquarters and commissary. We thought we'd do something in the meantime so that's why the sauce would have popped up. It wasn't uh. Well, it wasn't a planned thing. It just kind of came into being. Um-hum. Um,

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The, uh, I know that the sauce is very popular because the water. Hm. Well, I'm going to have to thank you for that. I don't know the popularity of the salt right now. Uh, it looks like it's just kind of laying dormant. Uh-huh. But, uh, We

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know it's a product that's at least acceptable. And being that it is accepted by the public, that, that's the main criteria as far as I'm concerned. And if it, uh, It does more, no more than does the advertisement for the place of business is, is pretty

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good for me. Every time you go in the supermarket and you look on the shelves and salts and you'll see Gates and Sons. Well, you know, uh, we're picking up a little bit of advertisement for our restaurants even at that point, and that's, it's doing its

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job there. I have to say that. Did you, uh, while you were in college, did you have um Did you minor in business No business, no business whatsoever. I was strictly, I minored in engineering and math and I majored in building trades. Then, uh, what would

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you say would be the, the main criteria that you, uh, develop your mind towards this? My mind was never developed towards business other than to the family. Uh, I've had my pitfalls in this business because it didn't have formal education, and that's why I'm sending my

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son to college for the formal education in this particular field. But at the time that we came into this field. Party we were thinking of barbecue business. And why I went to college. I told you previously that they were. Speakeasies and that wasn't my idea of

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business at the time that I went to school but prior to my That was prior to my going to school, but uh since coming home from college and being that Kansas City has opened its doors to Black businessmen to a degree. I found that, uh, And

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I'm gonna have to say this, that I didn't go to college to be dedicated to the building trade. I was dedicated to making money and this is the one of the best sources of money making that I thought. And in the field I could live with.

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I have learned to enjoy being that I'm in it. Uh, what, what of, uh, some of the issues of, of today, uh, um. Say woman's liberation. What about? What do you think? Beautiful. My mother's been liberated all her life. I don't know nothing about, No Well

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the, uh, you know, in the way that the youth are going to. You know, what, what kind of, uh, uh, maybe advice that you can Uh, success. You know, this, this is, that's a, that's a tough question with kids. It was, it's, it's a tough question

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even for me to answer and looking back over and saying, What kind of a kid I was. Because I wasn't known to be a young, wild kid at the time that I was coming here. But to tell a, a young woman now. I'd have to say

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make sure she Gates' cell. that she enjoys life. To the young man. I would say get prepared. In a field that you enjoy. Then you will be a success regardless of what you. Because you enjoy and that's success. To prepare for a field like the restaurant

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business, they have tremendous restaurants across the country. To say whether or not a guy should get in one of them I couldn't say because I don't know what he's apt to want to do. But if they Set their goals high enough. And get their values and

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perspective. In the right perspective to do what they want to do. They're on the right. I couldn't say work hard and pay the dues. There are different dudes, For different people. There are different payments for every car. There'll be different payments for everybody that possibly goes

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in business or in any other endeavor. I don't really have anything that I would say to a kid that, that wants to say I'm going to work hard, you know, what's hard work? This is not hard work. Long hours don't mean hard work or With a

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pick and a shovel and working all night is not the answer. I'll tell you this. Because you can invent a ditch dig and do the same job. But think in the right perspective of what you want and set your values and your standards high enough that

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you make sure you get out of life what you want. What do I think about the kids nowadays as compared to the kids that they're all the same? What is the growth of Kansas City? What do you see, uh, uh, Kansas City seems to be really

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spend a lot of shows. You were opening the, uh, nightclub, You would probably In. Well, That makes it pretty rough for a guy that's going in business now, to tell you the truth. You've really got to be sharp. During the time that I went in business,

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you got to understand that everything was still segregated and everybody had to come because they couldn't go anywhere else. We had a corner on the market, so to say. I was competing maybe with 1718 particular facilities. Now you're competing with 900 or 1000 facilities. It's that

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makes competition a little stouter nowadays than it was when I was. So you'd have to, you'd have to change your tactics of what I use. You have to be a thinking guy. You must use your mind. You must outthink the next guy. That's That's all probably

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I can say. I don't, I don't know too much about the, A guy starting out in the nightclub business. I don't know any colleges that teaches nightclub, you know, per se. And I wouldn't even, I wouldn't authorize that for a kid. I have to think of

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some of the other things that a guy's going through nowadays. The days we were coming along, you had no choices. You could be a doctor, lawyer, preacher, teacher. That was your profession. Uh, nowadays you can be a specialist in mine engineering if you want to, so

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it's up to where you, where you want to go and, and, and where you set your standards and your values. I wouldn't tell a kid to go into the nightclub business or the barbecue business or unless you really want to dedicate yourself to that business and

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stay with it and And either the fat along with the lean cause it's going to be all of them, you know. Um, I know we'll, like this, this year we were in Kansas City to be the host of, uh, Republican convention and a lot of other,

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What will this, how will this, uh, you know, how does this kind of growth affect your business? My particular business was profit by all. Of course. We're not, we're known well enough that somebody's gonna come back here. Uh, and our compliments of, of national conventions of,

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of the Shriners and the Boy Scouts and Future Farmers of America and the, and the Republicans. I want to ask one other thing on you. There's another black businessman. That's bringing something to Kansas City that I think that you should be highly complimented. And that's Foster's

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record shop. Foster Foster's record shop. He brings in a A Festival out of the stadium that brings more black business to Kansas City than any singular thing that comes. I think this guy should be highly praised for that work. So he's basically responsible for the majority

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of the same. This what? Entertainment. He's a good man. I can't, I can't put enough ruffles and flourishes on the gentleman. It's a good thing. This is. Um, uh, do you see any, any, uh, led up to the kind of inflationary trends that Somebody asked me

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that today. And to tell you the truth, I haven't noticed anything in inflationary trends other than meat went up three years ago. Uh, inflationary against uh Prices of the product is coming out. We just gave, Our products on, on the market, whatever the market can stand.

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But I'm hurt more by General Motors strikes or guys not being in General Motors and not working than I am in inflationary thing. Uh, so, we can regulate regardless of how much somebody else, Yes, and whatnot, we can regulate our either our prices or our salaries

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with our employees with the national economy. I haven't noticed any difference in the bottom line figure. We make about the same this year as we did last year. The only difference is we just have a little bit more maybe. We're not selling possibly anymore. We get

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hurt the worst when the average American is hurt. We're hurt too. You say lifetime when General Motors and so forth a lot of, uh, and this cuts down on the kind of business so we feel it we feel, we feel the welfare checks the person of

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15th well if we do it. The other checks from the professional people when they get paid every 2 weeks. We also feel that influx. Our economy generally runs with the trends of the economy, but For depression or recession that we had, we don't, we didn't, we

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didn't feel anything one way or the other. We don't feel inflationary things against depression things. It's just I run into it every now and then when I buy that, that's all. I see. Uh, do you anticipate, uh, uh, Further growth, Yes. We're working towards. Yeah. Well,

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being that I was a builder, that's still intent in my mind, building and building the barbecue business, whether it be one structure or more structures still isn't foremost in my mind. I don't like to sit still cause I'm really not a restaurateur as people would wanna

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think I am. Uh, plan on franchising. In fact, we're opening our first franchise in Springfield, Missouri this year. Uh, three months. Uh, that will be the pilot model for all franchises if it's, if it's successful, which I hope it will be. And we're, I'm going to

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say we're off and running in that direction, whether or not we ascertain any particular goal. I don't know, but we'll be in a better position possibly to help a lot of people in this particular field that wants to get in this field. We would be in

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a position to Give them some more franchise or give them some more outlets for work, and it'll be, we'll be looking in predominantly, Areas for those people that predominate that area. Um-hum. OK, well, I, I mean, I think that we as the, uh, people have to

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admire the uh kind of growth that you're doing, hopefully that, that, that you will be blessed with more success and. I want to thank you. But your time is at noon. Are there any other comments that you, Any advice that you might want, Records from you,

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You to Yeah, you heard you made the statement success. That's the only thing I'm not going to go along with. We're not successful. Because we really haven't reached the goal that I think we can. And the guy's only successful. In life is when you look back

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over his record. Um. And that's after he's dead. And see whether that guy was successful or not. Um-hum. Or whether that guy is happy here on earth. Reached the pinnacle of success. until that time comes. I don't really like to hear the word success, so we're

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just striving and we be together. Mm Thank you very much.