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America, I am interviewing Ruby Jackson. Of of the Human Resources Corporation, a young lady that has been working within the Kansas City community for the for the past number of years that I've For the past number of years, period. First of all, Ruby, what is your

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full name? Ruby Marjean Jackson. Marjean Jackson. How, how old are you? I am 42 years old. You're 42 years old. Where were you born, Ruby? In Wichita, Kansas. Wichita, Kansas. What hospital were you born? I think I was born at home. You were born at home.

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Uh, do you know who the mid the midwife was in that case? No, you don't, uh, Ruby, what is your mother's name? Martha. Martha Reed. OK. Uh, what's your father's name? James What? James. James Jason. All right. How many brothers and sisters did you have? Two

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brothers. Two brothers, no sisters. Um. Uh, what was your mother's mother's name? Her maiden name? Your mother's mother's name. I don't, oh, Vinny Vinny what? I do not recall what her last name was. I don't. What was your father? What was your grandfather's name? Uh, John

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Moore, John Moore, can you remember his father's name? Can you remember your mother's mother's name? Just Benny. Just Vinny. Your mother's name was what now? Martha. Martha Reed, um. Uh, where was your mother? Oh, I think she was born in Pensicana, Arkansas. Arkansas? Yeah. Right, where

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was your father from? I do not know. You do not know. Uh, can you remember any vivid, I mean any details at all about your father? No, except that he looked like my brother. I've only seen him once. OK. And your brother's names are what again?

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My brother's name? Oh, Donald, Donald Jason and Hinton Bryant. Hinton Bryant. Are they in Kansas City? Yes, they are in Kansas City. Uh, what circumstances brought your family to Wichita, Kansas? Uh, my father's job. And what was that? I believe he was a professional gambler. He

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was a professional gambler. Oh, he was a professional gambler. Yes. OK. Um, what was your mother's occupation? She was a school teacher. She was a school teacher? Yeah. OK. And in the system in Wichita? In Kansas City, Kansas. In Kansas City, Kansas. Um, uh, where did

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she go to college? Records, I do not know. It was uh They call it normal school, some kind of school that used to be. What is now known as um. The Kansas City, Kansas. Junior college and in that they had a training for teachers that was

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called something normal school and I don't know where the teachers went to school that was a long time ago I don't remember you know I It's in her records, but I can't recall what it was. All right, being born in Wichita, how did you come to

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Kansas City? She left my father. Your mother left your father, yes, and moved back to Kansas City, Kansas. Did she teach in Kansas City, Kansas? Yes, she did. What school? Um, I believe it was Northeast Junior. And there was an elementary school. I, I really don't

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recall. And what became of your father? No, no, no, no, I saw him once when I was 12, and he was just coming through. Um, And I saw him very, very briefly. Uh, what, how old were you when you left Wichita? Uh. Let's see. Must have

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been about. 3 months old, I believe. You were 3 months old. Yes. Do you still consider Wichita your home? Well, in a way, Kansas City, Kansas were my home, uh, than probably Wichita, of course I lived there too. Uh, my first child was born in Wichita.

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What was her name, uh, uh, Patricia, Patricia Coleman. OK. Um It's, it's my home too. Yeah, I think of it as, as not really. Are your relatives still in Wichita? No, we didn't have relatives in Wichita. Um, My husband was from Wichita and his people were

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there. Your husband? Yes. What's his name? He was William Coleman Junior. When did he He was killed in, um, 1971. He was uh murdered in front of us. I don't know, it was never solved. We didn't know who it was. How old was he when he

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died? 51. 51. All right, to Kansas again. What, uh, where did you live in Kansas City, Kansas? See I can remember several addresses. I can remember 1115 North. Um, 4th Street I live at 3841 Fisher. And after I got married, I lived at, uh, Washington. In

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the 900 block on Washington Boulevard and uh Alright, growing up, what high schools or what elementary school did you go to first of all? Grant. Adams. Well, Adds being in Missouri? No, Adams in Kansas City, Kansas. Yes, it's on South 5th Street in Kansas City, Kansas,

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in the Rosedale section of Kansas City, Kansas. OK, um, what high school did you go to? Um, I went to Northeast Junior and Sumner High. OK. Did you finish it? Where, where did you finish? I finished summer high in 52 and 52 at Sumner? Yes. Then

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what did you do? Um Um, the cancer cancer student College. OK, what field? That was Les yeah um. What were some of your favorite courses at Kansas City, Kansas College? I don't know, but I, in high school, Sumner, what what are your favorite courses? OK. Um,

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I, Probably like music best. No, I didn't. It, well, I like music and bookkeeping. And the commercial business courses. Um, Um, Did you participate in any uh extracurricular activities this summer? I don't believe so. Not on a long range basis anyway. I don't, I can't recall.

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Were you a cheer, cheerleader or? No. Oh, well, I was in the, uh, Oh, what do we call it? Cheering squad or whatever they call it, yeah, yeah, booster, yeah, something like what they call boosters now, yeah, we had our uniforms and all that, yes. So

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we're up to 1952. You graduated from high school in 1952. Yes. All right, what did you do immediately after, after high school? Now, wait a minute, wait a minute. What was your boyfriend's name in high school? Birdsong Warren. Yeah, he was named after a white man

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in Mississippi, a rich white man that all *** looked up to. OK, um, um, did your family have a car at that time? Yes. What kind of car did they have? Uh, my mother had a 449 Chevy and I had an old 38. Yeah, what was

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she doing then in 52? My mother, um, My daddy always drove a truck. But let's see, um, In 1952, she always did a lot of things. She's, uh, She liked to sail And she sold insurance and, Furniture and plastics and. What about teaching? No, in Kansas,

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uh, her career ended with teaching when I was born, because in Kansas you couldn't be married and teach school. You could. And in Kansas, you couldn't be uh they didn't have married school teachers. Only single. And um she never went back even after that was changed.

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Alright, at this time was James. Oh, at this time I had a stepfather there. OK, he's Hinton Bryant. Hinton Bryant. Um, he's senior. My brother, I told you he was hitting Brian too. My brother was hitting Brian Junior. Is he alive now? My father. Mr. Brown,

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That's my stepfather, because I don't know too much about my real father except what my mother said, and I just saw him one time. Um, um. Can you, can you remember any of the social attitudes of a young lady just out of high school in 1952?

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What were the hemlines of the dresses like? The hemlines of the dresses were middle cow. Uh, most dresses were flare. Uh, the thing to wear was either saddles, uh, was it the saddle shoes, the, uh, saddle from Oxfords or whatever they call them, saddle Oxfords, yeah.

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And um what was your favorite tune? I don't remember. I remember the first shocking thing that came out was Annie had a baby by the royals at that time. And uh it was a hard time uh for most of my friends to get that record in

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the house, you know, what was the problem? The parents wouldn't let us buy the record or we bought it, we better bring it home, you know, and that was the problem, you know, we had one circulating, but we couldn't. Bring it. How, how did your parents

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feel about you dating them? My Mother Took it in her stride. You know, she liked my boyfriend and thought it was nice. And who was your boyfriend? Berson. Uh-huh. Berson. OK. You had it. My father, uh, Well, he didn't mind him, but you know, at that

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time you had a steady and then you had, you know, you dated other folks too. And he didn't like the other boyfriends that I had. The first was Fair, you know, he could tolerate him. What could you, can you remember, um. About the war The big

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one, World War II. Blue and red. stamps that people had to purchase scarce goods and I don't remember whether it was meat or sugar, but it was scarce commodities like that. Um I can remember, um, That I, uh, I raised rabbits and had a good profitable

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business of my own because, um, People couldn't buy meat and they would buy tame rabbits. And uh my parents raised chickens. They had a steady, we had a great big old barn with. Um Oh, that would keep about 500. Uh, chickens ready for market, you know,

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fryers ready for market at all time, and that was a good little small business, you know. What did, did your mother can very much food? Yeah, she canned a lot, yeah. Um, uh, back to the war again. What else can you remember about the war? How

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old were you when World War II broke out? I must have been, About, let's see, 7. Years of age and I can remember my stepbrother um. Coming over on his bicycle telling me that he was joining the navy. And since he was about my favorite older

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person, he was about 17 then, that was a very, very sad occasion for me because I knew I wouldn't be seeing him. What was his name? Uh, Edward Bryant. Edward Bryant. And he was your what? He's my stepbrother. Oh, do you have other stepbrothers? Um, there

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were, but I wasn't close to any others. Do you know their names? Oh. No. Can't get it. Any stepsisters? Yes, there was one, Theopal Bryant. The. Yes. Um, Do you remember anything about the Korean conflict? Yes. Um, It was quite a subject in school studying the

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newspapers. You read quite a bit about it. Um Of course, with Harry Truman coming from um This part of the country, his conflict with General Patterson was, Popular discussion And um. Yeah, was, was positive discussion. OK, that, Um, I can remember, then I can remember in

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the classroom, the, um, soldiers that came back from Korean Korean conflict. Um, They made um college freshmen were very trying because they worked so hard and they raised them. The effort, you know, they would get, it was hard to get an A in a class with

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the Um, A man who was working so hard to prepare himself for life, you know, and, uh. And we wanted to work and we wanted to play too and but um they made our our our workload so demanding in the classroom and we really didn't like

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to go into rooms where we had a lot of uh Corey and Bes. Not only that, in, um, one class, psychology class, we had about 3. In there and they were very temperamental. Very, very, uh, let's back up. We're gonna back all the way up to

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to grade school. Uh, did you learn the Constitution and the preamble and, and what was the morning exercise like in in in in elementary school at that time? Oh, our morning exercise that I remember since it was during the war years in elementary school was marching

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in from the halls of Montezuma. We marched into that. And then we would reside. Probably the pledge of allegiance to the flag. And, um, I think then everyone would go to their room or something like that, but when we came in from the playground, we would

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line up and we'd march into the building to that tomb. Mm. What, what, what was your attitude as as to being an American at that time? At that time, I really don't think I had any thoughts about being American. I think that the, uh, Thing that

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was on my mind, probably. was There was a war going on and um People were getting killed. I guess that's, that was the general discussion in the house. People were getting killed and Uh There was a lot of sacrifice. That it was constantly said, you know,

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we had to sacrifice, we'd be glad when the war was over. So we wouldn't have to uh have substitutes for sugar. What kind of substitutes were those? Uh, I remember a lot of things being done with molasses and um Let's see, that's, that's one thing, and,

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and butter. Um, We use um. A margarine that you had to, um, there was a capsule in the center of it and you broke it and this all this fat or whatever was white. And it was in a plastic bag and you broke this uh yellow

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capsule in the center and you worked it and you worked it after working it for a time, it had the appearance of yellow butter. Was it good? Well, uh, we knew it wasn't butter. All right. At this particular time, what did you think of WEB DuBois?

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I didn't I didn't. What do you think of Booker T. Washington? At that time. Let's see, did we really have, what did you think of Marcus Garvey? Hadn't even heard of Marcus Garvey, but, uh, I mean it hadn't registered on my mind. But I know that

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in our household, um, I mean, as I reflect back, I know it was the Marcus Garvey movement that they were concerned with. But there was a great deal of um uh contempt expressed for the women who wore the long dresses and the red scarves who were

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preparing to leave to go back to Africa. And uh there, there were other people and I know my family, my father especially was very, uh, he would be upset. We had a grocery store and when they were coming to the grocery store, he was just short

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of being rude because he thought that they were trying to, um, Well, take money under false pretenses from, from black people. Uh, that time they didn't use black, they used negroes, uh, from, from negroes and he thought it was a terrible thing for them to do

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this. Now that's my only concept of it, not knowing that it was the Marcus Garvey movement at that time. What did he, uh, you said your father's store. We hadn't mentioned store before. What's the deal? Oh, well, we had a small grocery store, yeah, and, uh,

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oh, that was, we had that during the war too. It was. Must have had it. But when the war broke out, we had it. Um, and before then I was kind of young. I was young. Uh, uh, did you ever drink knee-high pop? Yeah. What kind

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of pop did you drink? Whistle, orange, pop, whistle. Can. Uh, Mr. Good bars that were very large. Very large, yes, um, alright, you said what was the, uh, reaction to a person being called black. Or called color at that particular time. Colored was an acceptable term.

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Black was not. At that term I can remember little children fighting, you know, my friends fighting because somebody black, they were ready to. Well, you had a fight on your hands. All right. uh, do you remember anything at all of organized labor at that time? Yes.

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I guess I can remember, uh, my. Father Going to, uh, working at the packing house. And he was We belong to a union. And my father, Also, although we had a grocery store, my father had a full-time job in the, uh, great elevator. What company? Oh,

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let's see. It was right off of 3rd Street, uh, Great Western, I think is the name of it, yes, Great Western. So a little of it Yes, we, uh, we were exposed. Do you remember the union that he was in? No. Was he in a union?

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Yes, OK, yes. Uh, what church did you belong to all this time? Let's see. I belong to. Trinity pastor. And I do not know. Because I went to most of the time to to other churches. I went to First Baptist Church on 5th and Nebraska. Which

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is right down the street and within walking distance. What kind of church was that? It was a Baptist church. And there was another church, and I cannot recall the name of it or anything, that was um On Nebraska between 4th and 5th Street that I went

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to quite a bit. I, I can't even remember the denomination of that church. Do you remember the church that your mother went to? She was an active churchgoer at that time, but we were all members of Trinity AME. Was your, OK. What was your favorite hymn?

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You're talking about when I was young. I don't. Probably Jesus loves me, yes, I know. I don't, I don't remember, yeah, OK, uh. Uh, remember Madam C. Walker? Does that name ring a bell to you? Yes, but not for that. OK, you're talking about in between

00:25:26.469 - 00:25:58.500

the time of 1962, uh, uh, 1952, yes, I, I remember. Well, we studied, uh, about Madam C. Walker in school. And uh That was uh Yeah, that, that was interesting. Oh, she, she was a beautician, er, a black er beautician. That made a lot of hair

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products for the uh The hair of the black people, that was good for our hair. And I know that my first husband went to, um, he's graduated from school. Absolutely. Um, uh, at that particular time, who was, uh, what black person would, would you say the

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nation's attention was focused on the most? Well, Paul Robeson got a lot of attention. And um, I guess there were a lot of people, black people who were sympathetic with him, but it always seemed to be kind of quiet around her. I don't know whether people

00:26:53.680 - 00:27:26.589

were in awe of him or or what. Were there any organizations as equivalent to the, let's say the Black Panther Party then? No. What about the Nation of Islam? Well, the Nation of Islam. Then, Was um. Not the one that we're thinking of when we're talking

00:27:26.589 - 00:27:49.260

about the That that branch that was founded by Elijah Muhammad. Um, We had some people of Islam faith in the community. But um they were probably what is known as Orthodox Muslims or or some other branch other than uh Na Muhammad's branch. At that time he

00:27:49.260 - 00:28:12.819

wasn't popular, not in Kansas City, Kansas where I live. Well, who was spiritually was popular? There was some man. I cannot remember That I could, uh, that I know black people, everyone knew what he said when he preached on the radio Sunday, and I think he

00:28:12.819 - 00:28:34.459

was called Major Bowes or somebody. I don't, uh. Recall who he was. He was a spiritual leader. And I think uh. You know, you just weren't anybody if you hadn't visited his church at least once. And I can remember my mother taking us over to this

00:28:35.069 - 00:28:57.569

huge, uh, T. Which now I know is at 13th and Garfield, uh, is the Metropolitan Spiritualist Church. But it seemed that uh some point in uh in Kansas City life that this church held a great deal of influence on black people. It offered a lot of

00:28:57.569 - 00:29:20.790

drama. And, and, uh, show and it was beauty in there and everything and I can remember being fascinated by the women in the long dresses and the shouting and the all the performance that went on and the uh. Bishop Uh, sitting there. I'm trying to think

00:29:20.790 - 00:29:39.189

what, I, I can't get it all together. It's so long ago. You said radio station. What radio station was that? Let's see. You can hear it on the radio. What radio station? Haven't the slightest idea. Was it, was it local? It was, it was it was

00:29:39.189 - 00:30:07.550

local. Yes, uh, was, was, was there a black operated? Radio station at that time. I don't think so. I don't think so. Uh, was TV Available at this particular time, no, not, no, this is before the age of TV, OK, um, um. Briefly described to me

00:30:07.550 - 00:30:49.780

the black community um geographically in 1952. 7th Street between around 7th Street between Minnesota and Central Avenue, not too many families. Um, Then there was. There was uh. The community of black people. I said Argentine. area of the city we call Armadale. And in Rosedale. And

00:30:49.780 - 00:31:17.030

I can remember South Park. In Johnson County. Which probably have the only black community in Johnson County. Uh What kind of businesses did black people own in Kansas at that time? Drugstores, ladies ready to wear. Um, the newspaper. Grocery stores. The call I had, um, Sub

00:31:17.030 - 00:31:54.130

office over there. Let's see. That's about it. There were trash roots. Were animals still kept in the city at that time? In some parts of the city you could have like in Quindaro. You could have, um, Some animals And then Rosedale and some parts of a

00:31:54.130 - 00:32:31.270

more rural section, you could have some. Were there any uh black and white contact at that time? Yes. What ways? We, we lived on a block. where there were 4 black families and 3 white families. Um you know their names? This year. Let's see. Can you

00:32:31.270 - 00:32:58.160

remember your white friend's name? I didn't really have any. And um, did you come to Missouri very much? Yes, what, what, what, what occasion would you come to recreation, recreation movies, dances. What were the movie houses? Megan was um. 18th Street. And the gym is on

00:32:58.160 - 00:33:27.079

18th Street. The castle was on 12th Street. And we came over to um. A place, oh, I guess maybe it could have been 18th and Brooklyn. I'm not that sure, but Parker. At a nightclub. And he also had Parker Parker. The name was Parker. Now I

00:33:27.079 - 00:33:48.660

can't remember anything else about it, but he also had, uh, day or night set aside for teenagers. Um, in a certain part of the building where, where we could go and have something like the nightclub set up for the adults. There was a broadcasting from there

00:33:48.660 - 00:34:14.149

too. Um, I think maybe we did have a black station at that particular time though because I can remember um there was broadcasting from from his place, I believe. Uh, um, 52. Where did you go after high school? Like what? To to further your education to

00:34:14.149 - 00:34:30.639

the Kansas, Kansas Junior College. Um, I graduated from there in '54. Yes, what did you do? Then I went to work for the Kansas City Call. And I got married for 6 months and I got married. All right. How long were you with the cause? 6

00:34:30.639 - 00:34:59.169

months. What was your capacity there? Uh, circulation, clerk, I think was my job title. Who was the editor then? The I think it was Donald Davis. Do you, do you remember any other staff members? Yes, Lucille Bluford. What was she? She is. She did. She wasn't

00:34:59.169 - 00:35:15.409

the top person then because Donald Davis was, um. Maybe she was a city editor or something like that. I, I don't quite remember, but she was, you know, one of the chief staff people. How old are you now? I'm 42. Well, I'll be 42 in May.

00:35:15.550 - 00:35:42.429

No, no, no, 41. I mean, how old are you now in regards to the tape? In regards to the tape at this particular time I was. 19, wait a minute, no. Um, 54. I was 20 years old. Then you could go to various types of establishments.

00:35:45.810 - 00:36:17.689

Like, like what? Nightclubs. At 20 I wasn't supposed to. I did. Why, where did you go? OK. At that time, I went to, There was a place in Streets Hotel that was very nice. What was it called? I think. And, um, A number of places. There

00:36:17.689 - 00:36:49.030

was Millie's on 12th Street somewhere. I don't recall. Um, That was the rule. There was a place on, let's see, was this in 54, OK, in 54 or 55, there was a place called, Something, I can't recall it, uh, on 9th and Woodland, where Jay McShand

00:36:49.030 - 00:37:09.199

played a lot. With their own. And we went to Leavenworth. Black people, a lot of black people went to Leavenworth at that time. There were a lot of nightclubs there, a lot of action, OK. Who did you like to see most in these nightclubs? Was there

00:37:09.199 - 00:37:29.290

live entertainment? What, you know, live entertainment. And what was your favorite group? Jay McShan. Jay McShan. Yes. What was? Well, wait a minute. There was Jay Mac, but I, I'm not good on, on musicians' names, but there was at Millie's the best moods music. If you

00:37:29.290 - 00:37:45.189

were in a romantic mood, that was the place to go. Um, I don't know whether he was Earl Grant or someone that played the organ, and he played any tune that you had the desire that you wanted to hear, you know, all your boyfriend or they

00:37:45.189 - 00:37:59.459

had to do was tip up to the table. And uh up to the organ and tell her what you wanted to hear, you know you got it, yeah. What did Jay McSham play uh Jay McSham was an orchestra, you know, it wasn't the uh that's a

00:37:59.459 - 00:38:29.209

different environment that was orchestra people danced and you know it's uh what kind of. Oh, let's see what were we doing that time. And Things called the bob. um Something called a turkey hop or bunny hop or something I don't remember it then I could, yes,

00:38:31.379 - 00:38:49.889

uh, well, what about Africa about now what was going on in Africa. Well, I don't really know, and we had little concern because one reason was the students that we ran into were so arrogant, you know, they didn't like us too well and we didn't like

00:38:49.889 - 00:39:13.219

them. Uh, students, what type of student were you academic um, were you? Um I don't know. You mean was I a good student or oh, I was basically a fair student. Didn't believe in working up to my potential in any way. Uh, who was your favorite

00:39:13.219 - 00:39:30.159

teacher? I'm not good on names. Can you remember any teacher's names? I can remember, um, I can remember the subject he taught, and that was French. He was a very good teacher. What was it? You don't remember his name. I, I cannot remember. Do you recall,

00:39:30.560 - 00:39:58.949

uh, uh, Doctor Brian at all at that time? No. Or McKinley Neal. are um Any The only black person that I knew at in that particular time over here that you know probably made lines or something great was uh Donald Davis and um The founder of

00:39:58.949 - 00:40:22.290

Freedom Inc. Because he was a detective on the Kansas City. Um, police squad, and he was making a lot of busts and it was in the paper almost every week, you know. And that was, you couldn't miss that. And that I thought Leon Jordan Freedom. That's

00:40:22.290 - 00:40:40.520

what I said, the founder of Freedom Inc. I didn't name his name. Yeah, OK, yeah, yeah. Then he went to Africa. And um, I can remember his coming into the call and whenever he came in, I think he came in about once a year, and I

00:40:40.520 - 00:40:56.189

can remember him saying that he would. Uh, come to the states and he would go to Detroit to get his car. He'd buy his car from Detroit and then come to Kansas City, and it, it caused quite an uproar, you know, everybody was all excited when

00:40:56.189 - 00:41:15.449

he came in. Alright. After how long were you at the call now? 6 months. And then what did you do? I got married. I went to Wichita and I lived there a year and a half. Married to who? William Coleman Junior. And then I came back

00:41:15.449 - 00:41:46.100

to Kansas City. Lived in Kansas City, Missouri for a time and I didn't really like it, so I moved back to Kansas City, Kansas. Um, um, all right. But, uh, now this is what, approximately how old were you at this time? Well, by the time all

00:41:46.100 - 00:42:04.830

of that had taken place, I was probably about 20. 6 years old. 26. And how many children did you have? At that time I had 2. All right, well, who was the second child? William Coleman Jr. The, the 3rd, yes, we the 3rd. OK, and where

00:42:04.830 - 00:42:28.550

was he born? In Queen of the world Hospital. OK, when? In 1958. All right, what hospital was your daughter born? In Wesley Hospital in Wichita. In 1955. Uh, um, all right, you're 26 years old, um. Which way are you, are you going? I mean which way

00:42:28.550 - 00:42:50.110

are you directed now? What are you doing with yourself really? Housewife. You're a housewife. For how long were you a housewife? I was a housewife for about 7 years. I worked. Only part-time at I Reserve Pendleton's ready to wear. And I would help her with her

00:42:50.110 - 00:43:19.570

secretary of bookkeeping work in Reserve, E M M A Z E R R in Reserve Pendleton, black or white company black where um. Let's see, at that time. She was located at 7th and Quinn Darrow. But I had worked for her when she was In the

00:43:19.570 - 00:43:38.739

Streets Hotel building too, uh, before I got married. Um, I had two jobs, the call and, and, and there. That was a part-time job. Uh, because I also had worked for her while I was in school. Um, But she had ladies ready to wear very fine

00:43:38.739 - 00:43:54.120

clothes for ladies what you could buy, um, you know, black people weren't exactly welcome at Hartsvilles and all those places, but they could come and get the same, um. Uh, designer clothes at her place. What, what kind of, what kind of stores were there available for

00:43:54.120 - 00:44:18.760

black people? Well, she was in and uh ladies ready to wear. What about men? What was the place for men? Men. I think most Kansas men directed their attention to leaders at that time. And that was a white store I guess. Uh, uh, Streets Hotel. What,

00:44:18.810 - 00:44:47.550

what can you say about that? What does that mean to you? Well, It means the Rose Room, where they serve very good food. And it means blue bloom. And met in Missouri Pendleton ready to wear. And that's That's about it. I can remember seeing Mr. Street,

00:44:48.270 - 00:45:21.409

he would come in to talk. And that's about it. So you were married for 7 years. What happened? Oh, the I went to work, um, At the post office after that. Where, uh, main post office Missouri or Kansas in, in, uh, uh, Missouri down Pershing Road.

00:45:23.889 - 00:45:48.399

And I worked there for about a year. I really didn't like it as a clerk. Work was drab. I spent. Most of the time, probably in the uh Business office because I was a good typist. Were you and your husband still together at this point? See.

00:45:51.489 - 00:46:13.989

I think we were separated mostly, we had been separated off and on for about two years in that period of time, probably from about 1959 to 1190. 60. So I think it was pretty well final by then. It was not fair. You're divorced? I got a

00:46:13.989 - 00:46:41.580

divorce in 60. Uh, in 62, 1962, yeah. 62? In 1962 I was working at uh Jackson County Welfare as a caseworker. Caseworker. How long were you a caseworker? Oh, about 5 years, about 5 years, uh, when you left, what was your capacity? It was caseworker. Still

00:46:41.580 - 00:47:06.709

case worker. How much were you employed as initially? The salary was very low. I think something like maybe about 236 above. Uh, how much were you employed when you left? It had probably doubled by that time. OK. Can you remember your supervisor's name? Yes, uh, Laverne

00:47:06.709 - 00:47:27.389

Hoover. Um, um, what size caseload did you have? At one time I had a caseload of 103. That was extremely large. Is that just in Kansas or Missouri? This was in Missouri. This was in Missouri. All right. Uh, what prompted you move to Missouri then? Oh,

00:47:30.040 - 00:47:50.739

Let's see, what made me move back to Missouri? I guess my sister-in-law. I had a beauty shop and by the time, by that time, my husband had graduated from Madam Walker's school and he wanted to work with her and um. It just seemed like our life

00:47:50.739 - 00:48:15.580

was beginning to be in Kansas City, Missouri instead of in Kansas City, Kansas, so we moved back over. You have a car now? Yes. What kind? 00, let's see. Exactly, yeah. We had, uh, all 5 floors. What color? It was tan. Yeah. Had you bought a

00:48:15.580 - 00:48:40.520

home yet? No. Where did you stay? Let's see, let me go back. We stayed at 3106 Benton. OK. What church did you belong to? To, uh, Cleveland Avenue Methodist United. Well, at that time it was Cleveland Avenue, uh, Methodist Episcopal Church. Was uh Reverend Jackson. OK,

00:48:40.639 - 00:49:03.090

what was the size of the congregation? About 100 people. What was your favorite hymn? Probably holy holy by that day. Um, you know, you have 2 children now, right? Uh, are you ready to remarry yet? In 1962, yeah, all right, who did you marry? I met

00:49:03.090 - 00:49:27.800

her. I married, uh, James C. Jackson. OK, uh, do you, do you remember the date of the marriage? It was in March. Do you know what his mother's name was? Yes, Lena, Lena Ernest. And do you know his father? Uh, his father. Last name is Galloway.

00:49:30.129 - 00:49:51.620

his first Brothers and sisters. Oh wow. There are about 12 of them. They're all stepsisters because his mother only had one child, him. Let's see, stepbrothers and sisters, let's see. One is Shirley. She lives here. Shirley, Shirley, what is Shirley's last name? I'm not gonna remember.

00:49:52.560 - 00:50:22.100

OK, we won't, we won't, we won't dwindle on that. OK, um, all right, where were you working now? When I married James Jackson at Jackson County welfare, and what was he? He was Working at He was selling insurance, I believe, as far as Western and Southern.

00:50:25.020 - 00:50:48.399

What uh prompted you to leave, uh prompted you to leave West, with leaving the welfare department? Oh, I wanted to. I got pregnant. You got pregnant, yeah, right. This is your 3rd child, yes, yes, uh, John Mac Jackson after his great grandfather on my side. Um,

00:50:48.419 - 00:51:28.300

uh. When was he born? He was born in 1966 August. OK. Um, uh, what hospital? The hospital on eighty-seventh and Cru Lakeside. Lakeside. Who was your doctor? Doctor Warren, David Warren. All right, who was the doctor to your first son? Oh, Doctor, um, It is let's

00:51:28.300 - 00:51:52.389

see. OK, I have a very bad memory, as you see, Doctor Rogers, Doctor Rogers, your daughter, and I don't remember him. What hospital was your daughter born in? Westley. Where was your first son born in, um, Queen of the World Hospital. Um Um, the birth of

00:51:52.389 - 00:52:24.689

your third child, Mac. Um, When did you go back to work? I went back to work. When he was 11 months old, 11 months old where at Human Resources Corporation. All right, uh, Human Resources Corporation. What is that? That is the Community action agency. Funded by

00:52:24.689 - 00:53:04.340

OVO, what was called the Office of Economic Opportunity. What capacity? As a neighborhood developer. Uh, under whose direction? Uh, Patrick Eugene Watkins. Where was your office? 2600 Perry. Since you were a neighborhood developer, were there any programs that you that you designed and implemented? That I

00:53:04.340 - 00:53:33.429

desired. Well, I, I don't know. We had our directive about community action. And we did a lot of things. We Uh, uh, all right, I don't let me help you. No, they were my design. What brought about, what type of circumstances brought about the development of

00:53:33.429 - 00:53:59.969

the ABC as a human resources corporation? Had this agency been around all the time? No, no. There had been An attempt by the city to form a board. To apply for uh the oil funds under this um new act that had taken place, and they call

00:53:59.969 - 00:54:28.879

this war on poverty. Um, That board was unsuccessful. Because many elements of the community had declared that this board did not really represent the people. Uh, he had persons on there like the elements. Well, there was core and at that time, there was, um, NAACP there

00:54:28.879 - 00:54:58.320

was um. Um There was no welfare rights at that time, but there were people speaking for, in a loose way for, for persons on welfare. Um, There was also the where Saul Alinsky's group was beginning to form and gain the momentum and they did not like

00:54:58.320 - 00:55:17.879

the fact that this board was uh Really not representative and the, and the plans they were making were not representative. And there were many churches. In fact, I would say it was instigated. The change was really instigated by churches working together and forming a coalition to

00:55:17.879 - 00:55:43.570

uh change the makeup of the Human Resources Corporation board. But, but what brought about it? Do you feel it was a ride in the 60s that brought it about? What brought it about? Oh, well. You want my feelings about what brought it about. Well, My feelings

00:55:43.570 - 00:56:14.510

about what brought her to earth is that. Um There was a need to, Put some people to work. Who were really not geared To go into employment in the business, in the business sector. And they had to be geared up, um, the welfare and all these

00:56:14.510 - 00:56:41.520

social agencies were so bureaucratic and considered a part of the system. That, um, It was not attractive employment for people who were concerned about civil rights at that time. It was a civil rights issue, not a human rights issue. So. Through agencies like this, um, it

00:56:41.520 - 00:57:09.709

could employ some of the Um, People who were involved. Because the people could see themselves carrying on and yet getting employed, uh, getting employment, yet, uh. Their concerns about uh civil rights legislation. However, the trick was that soon after this was passed there uh came into

00:57:09.709 - 00:57:40.969

being what is known as the Green Amendment. That quickly, you know. Uh, silence the people who were, The Green Amendment was that amendment that said. Let's see, I wanna get it straightened out. It was the decision to say that the Hatch Act covered people who were

00:57:40.969 - 00:57:57.590

employed by community action agencies and that we couldn't get out and picket and uh try to influence people on how they were going to vote on issues and all this sort of thing. That's that's exactly what it meant. Because we would be covered just like federal

00:57:57.590 - 00:58:17.060

employees go. You made a statement, civil rights and human rights. What's the difference? Well, civil rights was Really a fight where people were trying to get laws passed in the federal and the state and their municipal governments, um, To give people equal rights, you know, the

00:58:17.060 - 00:58:35.850

right to eat in places, the right to have recreation in certain places and things like that, the right to live anywhere they could afford to, uh, purchase their housing or rent their housing. And um You know, they, they were trying to get laws to ensure this.

00:58:36.010 - 00:58:59.570

So this, this was a civil issue. And there was a time when people said, you know, well, hey, look, we've got plenty of laws, laws on top of laws saying that, um, everyone has a right to do this, but, um, You know, until people start. Thinking

00:58:59.570 - 00:59:19.500

that it's necessary for people to live together, you know, the human rights comes in how those laws are implemented. Do you keep dodging the civil law and wear it out in the courts or So people now are fighting for human rights, you know, the right to

00:59:19.500 - 00:59:38.250

have a decent living and all this sort of thing. There are people who say there's a, you have a right to live, the fetus, you know, at the time of conception, there's no, you should not abort, uh, artificially, and, um, so, so now people are concerned

00:59:38.250 - 01:00:12.090

with human rights issues at this particular time. Uh, what leaders were being projected? In the civil rights, uh. There was um Well, the very first one was Farmer, James Farmer that I remember in Corps. He, he probably goes back to the, Earlier than any of those

01:00:12.090 - 01:00:29.409

that we now about Malcolm X? Uh, Malcolm X, um, Was definitely A leader And so was, um, Elijah Muhammad.