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Speed. Uh, good morning, Doctor Counts. Good morning. Uh, I, um, want to first say on behalf of many, many people we're very glad for you to come out and be a part of this, uh, program, and we really wanna thank you. Um, I'm gonna ask some

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personal, uh, data first, and, uh, even though I mentioned your name, I'd like for you to tell us who you are and then something about, uh, you know, where you were born and, uh, how you may have come to Kansas City or grew up here. OK.

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You want me to answer now? Yes. OK, my name is uh Stanley Counts, Stanley L. Counts. I'm not going to tell you what the middle name is, but, uh, I was born and raised in Kansas City, Missouri. And I was born February 21st, 1930. And I

00:01:07.510 - 00:01:29.879

went to school, grade school at Wendell Phillips grade school. I went to RT Coles and then I graduated from Lincoln High School. And then from there, in 1947 to 1950, I was in the Air Force. And when I, uh, uh, when I was discharged, honorably discharged

00:01:29.879 - 00:01:50.550

from the Air Force. I was interested in going to college with my mother, uh, who graduated from Charter College in Arkansas. And at that time, all the colleges were mainly uh AME African Methodist Episcopal College. And she majored in business and I didn't know what I

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was going to do so I decided that I would want to be, uh, you know, go follow her in business. So I went to the University of Nebraska at summer school. And then transferred to Grace University, which was back then Grace College of the Bible. Uh,

00:02:08.240 - 00:02:27.990

Miss, the way I got there was Miss Rhys Williams wanted, uh, uh, I met her in Kansas, Missouri, and she wanted to influence me to be a Christian, uh, uh, person and go to the Christian college, but I was interested in going into business. And so

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it just happened that um my, my, me, myself and Reverend Charles Briscoe and his former wife, his late wife Benola and Connie, we all received a uh a scholarship or monies from Miss Reese Williams, who then was on Social Security but she was a real, had

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a real missionary spirit and that's how we got to Grace University which is before Grace College of the Bible. And before that Grace Bible Institute. Now you mentioned uh your mother went to Shorter Cottage, uh, tell me a little bit more about your mother and your

00:03:05.080 - 00:03:28.169

father. Well, my father was part Indian, I'm proud of my heritage, and they were both from Hot Springs, Arkansas, and then they came from that to Kansas City, Missouri. And uh and uh my mother. Uh, well, we had, it was 7 children, uh, 2 boys, I'm

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the oldest, and 5 girls, and, uh, all of them went to school here in Kansas City, Missouri. And then we were living, well we lived in several several places, but, uh, one of the main places that I remember is 2451 Vine, which was two doors from

00:03:47.330 - 00:04:07.649

Wendell Phillips, elementary school. So we went up the hill there on Purcell at Purcell Baptist and, and then later on, for some reason or another we stopped going there and then we started going at uh I think it was 24th and Flora Bethlehemy Church. Both of

00:04:07.649 - 00:04:31.899

them were in the neighborhood. It was a wonderful neighborhood experience. Now, um, again, just a little bit more on your parents, uh, your mother was employed where and also your father. Well, my father was a contractor. And also he was um he was a supervisor at

00:04:31.899 - 00:04:54.880

the, at the. Not the name of the plant, but during the war. But my mother was uh was a housewife, stayed home and raised the children. Now I know you mentioned uh you have a long uh association with uh the African-American Episcopal Church. Uh, when did

00:04:54.880 - 00:05:16.339

you, uh, get the calling or shall I say the assignment, uh, to, uh, preaching, uh, uh, Saint Luke's Church in Westport? OK. Well I, I wasn't intended to be in the ministry. I always tend to be in business. So when I got out of Grace University,

00:05:16.589 - 00:05:35.170

which is Grace College Revival, Miss. Rhys Williams, who gave me some money to go to school, she said, now this is Lord's money, use it. And uh so when I came out, she asked me if I would She they needed a pastor and that was that

00:05:35.170 - 00:05:52.170

was a non-denominational uh faith Bible church right up the street from 22nd and Prospect. And so I said no, I don't feel called, but I will, I had the degree, I had Greek and theology and all that and all those subjects and so forth. So I

00:05:52.170 - 00:06:10.700

said that I will teach until you get somebody. And so I did that for a year and then the next year she asked me again if I'd be the pastor, I said I don't feel it. Uh, so then she waited and I kept teaching and the,

00:06:10.750 - 00:06:27.130

uh, it was a house church and it got, you know, it, it, it overflowed and so forth and we needed another place but she asked again so I said well, Oh, OK, I, I'll just, in my mind, I felt that I was prepared, but I just

00:06:27.130 - 00:06:43.540

didn't feel the cold. At the time, so then I said, well, I'll take the exam and see what happens. And I did and Reverend Briscoe was one of those on the committee, and I passed it and then that's how I became a pastor. So I was

00:06:43.540 - 00:07:05.619

there for 2 years. OK. And, and then after that, Uh, I, uh, Reverend McClure said to me, why are you over here and so forth. So, uh, he asked me to come to the AME Church. And so I went over there and took that exam. And

00:07:05.619 - 00:07:31.179

I pastor there for pastor in the AME church for 40 years and I think I pastor 12 churches and Odessa, Mayview, Higginsville, Boonville, uh, Kansas City, Missouri, uh, Lawrence, Kansas, Hutchinson, Kansas, Westport. And, and through that, that's how I got to Saint Luke AME Westport. What

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were you, uh, uh, married when you started preaching in in Westport. No. No, I wasn't. Wasn't thinking about it. I was 28 when I got married. OK, um, Now when you were in uh uh pastport, when you were pastor of the church in Westport, um, uh,

00:08:01.540 - 00:08:18.579

did you live in that community or just uh was pastor well I lived I lived. I lived in the north part of Kansas City, Missouri. But I passed it at Saint Luke Westport, 43rd and Roanoke Road. And there we had, you know, it was a successful.

00:08:19.220 - 00:08:43.489

And, and, uh, and increased the finance, increased the membership, developed the church, remodel the church and the parsonage, and got central air conditioning, and it was a good experience. Yes, but it needed repairing and then through the members and the good Lord, we, you know, uh,

00:08:43.500 - 00:09:05.510

got it remodeled. And back then, how, how did you get to transportation, uh, transportation? Well, I had, I had transportation. I had my own car. My wife was teaching. And then at the time, I think uh I'm not sure. Well, I was in the insurance business

00:09:05.510 - 00:09:32.309

also, and I was in real estate. I was in investments. And uh then I also, I'm not sure at the time, but I also was uh Classifications, I was a teletypist at the VA hospital. Jack of many trades, master of none. Uh, you mentioned that your,

00:09:32.590 - 00:09:57.750

uh, wife, um, was a teacher. She still is. OK, tell me her name and OK, Dorothy, uh, Jean Lockett Counts. And she's been teaching now for over 50 years. And she loves it and she, she and my daughter are still teaching. And uh Uh, And she

00:09:57.750 - 00:10:22.330

also was gifted for music. Matter of fact, she's a music teacher. And you mentioned, uh, uh, your daughter. How many children do you have? I've got 21 son, Stanley Collins Junior. And uh Lee Katherine Counts, Pollard. And she's married now. I didn't get to name either

00:10:22.330 - 00:10:43.270

one of them. When I got to the hospital, they were already named. And the last thing I would have named. Well, I'm on TV. I better not say that. I would not I would not have named my son Junior, because to me that was a tremendous

00:10:43.270 - 00:11:14.539

responsibility. You know, And but, but I'm, I'm glad about it now. You know, it's awesome responsibility, especially in ministry to, you know, son following the father. You have grandchildren? I've got, uh, I've got, uh, My 4 grandchildren. Yeah, um, now, uh, when you were preaching in

00:11:14.539 - 00:11:35.609

at Saint Luke's in Westport, uh, the years were what I was pastoring. Of the years, you know. It's been a little embarrassing, but I don't remember those years. But I passed in there 5 years, I think 5 years. OK. What was, uh, some of the things

00:11:35.609 - 00:11:57.789

that, uh, were going on in Kansas City back at that time as for as, uh, integration, segregation, uh, maybe the, uh, uh, concerns of the African American community at that time that you might recall. OK. It, it, it was uh I'm trying to think 50s or

00:11:57.789 - 00:12:24.719

60s. Well, we had some integration. But Um, I say that uh Well, we still have to deal with like we deal with back then, we'd have to deal with the racism. And uh so basically our church just fellowship with other black, you know, congregations. I just

00:12:24.719 - 00:12:40.369

happen not to be prejudiced. My family's of the United Nations and I I just like the rainbow. I like all of God's creation to get together and they say that uh one of the biggest segregated hours is the 11 o'clock hour and that's the church hours.

00:12:41.169 - 00:13:02.729

So it's just too bad that the evil powers, and when Christians say the Satan or the devil has done a good job of keeping God's creation segregated and separated. I don't believe in it, I hate it, but we have to deal with it. So we are

00:13:02.729 - 00:13:22.059

people of goodwill have to do what we can in order for us to fellowship and communicate together. And utilize our talents and recognize that we have a lot of similarities and that there is uniqueness and ethnicity. So that we keep our ethnic and my my my

00:13:22.570 - 00:13:48.309

uh uh I uh Uh, racial backgrounds and we utilize them and, and, and, and, and utilize our talents and our gifts to edify, to lift up, to encourage one another. Because together we can be more creative and we can encourage on each other and fellowship. So

00:13:48.309 - 00:14:11.030

I think that er er that er I try to do all I can for all nationalities to fellowship and work together to make a better world. No. And with that type of philosophy and, and outreach ministry, uh, uh, how, how do you kind of prepare a

00:14:11.030 - 00:14:32.869

sermon, uh, to get people to, I don't like to, to buy into, to receive, uh, to want to adhere to. Uh, a, a sermon. How, how do you prepare for it and maybe deliver it, uh, is that, uh, from just, is that schooling or it's calling

00:14:33.609 - 00:14:52.909

or given to you by God on a certain Sunday? OK, calling is, you see, in other words, I went into the ministry because I believe I was called, not by man, but by God. And uh, and in every field it seems to me, in my, my

00:14:52.909 - 00:15:09.500

point of view, there are people who should not be in the fields that they are. They should be in the fields where they have the natural talent and the gift to perform to their to their greatest capacity. So we have misfits in every organization, in every

00:15:09.500 - 00:15:26.119

situation, but in my, in my case, I, I know I was called, but it was a gradual thing. Number one, I was prepared. I already had, I, I think that when I went into ministry, um, I think I already had two degrees, and one from Grace

00:15:26.119 - 00:15:44.770

University and one from National College, both Christian schools. One in business and one in in Bible and theology. And er so er I had a good biblical background. I I I knew I was called and number one, I know that er first of all, I was

00:15:44.770 - 00:16:01.799

a committed Christian. I considered myself an atheist in the beginning and then said I was agnostic, then an unbeliever, er but er and Shaw Air Force Base Sumter, South Carolina, I was gonna commit suicide and instead I committed my life to Christ. I didn't know Christian

00:16:01.799 - 00:16:16.599

words, all I just say is, God, I'm my head's rack of pain, sorry for my sins, and I'm gonna try it. And it was just a calm piece and I know, I know, I know. So and then the calling situation and how to prepare the sermon.

00:16:16.650 - 00:16:33.099

I teach evangelistic preaching, I teach Greek theology and discipleship and and I'm over the doctoral program at Western Baptist Bible College. So I teach that, but the point is, number one, I teach the students that first of all you pray, second, you prepare, and you prepare

00:16:33.099 - 00:16:47.570

it through the word of God. And then as you as you read the word of God, you prepare through the word of God. And then you understand the problems and the situations that your your local congregation, and then as you read and as you study, as

00:16:47.570 - 00:17:03.609

you meditate, er God speaks to you through the Holy Spirit, gives you that the word that he wants you to preach. Now, now we have to acknowledge that everybody who say they are called is not called, so the wheat and tears grow together, but I can't

00:17:03.609 - 00:17:19.040

do nothing about them, I have to do it by myself. So the main thing is er if people want to know the truth, especially these young people. They don't want you to philosophize, theologize and and make excuses, they want the straight truth. And but the main

00:17:19.040 - 00:17:35.989

thing is that we're to preach it in love, not to beat it over people's heads. It's like a conversational thing, er, it's a relational thing. And that through your personality relating the truths of the word of God in love, and those who have who have a

00:17:35.989 - 00:17:51.609

sincere heart and want to desire to know the truth, Spirit of God speaks to them and they relate thereby. And then we see a lot of in every area, we we got hypocrites, we got, you know, people who are not true, you know, you and I

00:17:51.609 - 00:18:06.699

in in the organization, we're in NACP together, and everybody there is not committed and in every organization and the family is the same thing. But the main thing is that I can't answer for anybody else, I have to answer for myself. And what I may try

00:18:06.699 - 00:18:22.199

to do is be a contagious Christian so somebody can see my personality and they can check me out in spite of my shortcomings and know that I'm for real. See if the heart touches the heart. You can't fake love, you can fake a whole lot of

00:18:22.199 - 00:18:35.750

things, but you can't and another thing, you can't fake genuine caring. So after you get out of that pulpit, that's just about 1 hour or 2 hours of service, right? That's celebration, that's that's praise and that's worship, what it should be. It shouldn't be all this

00:18:35.750 - 00:18:48.780

entertainment business, but it should be true worship. And then after that you go out and serve. I just went last week, I went the other day, I got a call, come to Lee Summit and I didn't get that because somebody else called me and they needed

00:18:49.060 - 00:19:02.280

somebody to take care of the utilities. They're not a member of my church, but I have to ascertain who's for real, so instead of going to paying it, I went to the house and found out there was a genuine need. And so I wrote a check

00:19:02.280 - 00:19:15.319

for the for the utility. And then they said, well, what about, you know, I need something to eat, so I said well you find that. I was testing them and when I went there I found a 91 year old woman, a lady, and when I went

00:19:15.319 - 00:19:29.859

to pray for her, she said, uh, I know you, and I said well how do you know me? She she looked like she didn't have too many more days to live. And she said, well I remember you at War Chapel 22nd in Prospect, 91 year old,

00:19:30.199 - 00:19:44.099

and, and, and needed air conditioning and suffering from the heat. So I said, but no, I wasn't there. She said, but you was at that church over there on Cleveland. Well that was a that was an indication that that was a sincere soul with a daughter

00:19:44.099 - 00:19:58.180

and some others who wouldn't help, needed help. So I I I I was in a hurry, didn't have time, I was late for my other appointment, but I went and got the groceries. See, this is the the people don't want to hear so much of what

00:19:58.180 - 00:20:15.520

you say, they are interested in whether you care or not. It's mainly what you do. Both got to go together, and that's the way, that's ministry to me. That's ministry. Yes. Uh, now, uh, in some of the churches that you pastored, uh, especially, uh, Westport, uh,

00:20:15.640 - 00:20:41.829

do you recall any, uh, uh, deacons or trustees that, uh, really, uh, were also, uh, quite, uh, supportive in ministry to pastors? Well, the one that comes to my mind vividly is Leslie Smith. He was my manual arts instructor at Wendell Phillips grade school. He was

00:20:41.829 - 00:20:58.510

a wonderful man and he encouraged me and and I wasn't, you know, I was, I was making good money in insurance and real estate and so I but I went into the ministry situation and that wasn't much much salary and he encouraged me to sub at

00:20:58.510 - 00:21:17.920

in school system. And he encouraged me all that he could. And there were others. I remember Mrs. Smith, but for the most part, most of them were nice people. You know, they just, see, this is my philosophy, good and love the people. Uh Good, bad, and

00:21:17.920 - 00:21:35.709

indifferent. See, if things go right, love them, others love them. I was faithful and in those who gave me problems and when they're sick I go to see them. I call them up, cause love never fails. And that's what Jesus Christ did, and then he was

00:21:35.709 - 00:21:49.170

on that cross and says, Lord, forgive them for they know not what they do. Somebody some some brother talked to me the other day. And he asked me, he says, now look, he says, Doc, I just got to quit, I can't, it's got I I got

00:21:49.170 - 00:22:05.689

I just can't, I can't hold it. And he was supposed to be doing some work for me. And he said, uh, this is what happened to me. And I don't think I should forgive because the person who mistreated me hasn't asked for forgiveness. Should I do

00:22:05.689 - 00:22:21.859

it? What should I do? So I said, uh, well, what all the things that you're telling me, I agree with you. Except that the Bible said that if we do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive you. You have to forgive to live. That

00:22:21.859 - 00:22:46.819

don't mean that you don't have just, uh, uh, what, remuneration, but the point is that it helps you mentally and spiritually to forgive. See, and, and, and, and, and, and if, and, and, and if you don't, well, you fester that thing. I got relatives now, they

00:22:46.829 - 00:23:05.819

they they they they they they they just seemingly can't get past the hurt. And in my experience, many people can't get past the hurt. See, and, and, and, and another thing is. Um, Well, I've been sued twice by church members. I've been, I've been, I've been

00:23:05.819 - 00:23:24.800

robbed twice. I had a gun in my temple side at the same time. You know, I, I've, I've been in Kangaroo court, I've been through all that. You know, cancer, all of it. And so, but through it all, don't get bitter, get better. Well, now I,

00:23:24.890 - 00:23:42.890

I, I know you to be a man of the community and who believes in the philosophy of getting better. Uh, tell me some of the organizations, um, including the NAACP. You own the, uh, staff at the Bible College. What are some of the other organizations, uh,

00:23:42.939 - 00:24:06.469

civic, uh, fraternal that you are? Well, uh, I was a coordinator for Teacher Corps in Kansas, Missouri school system. Uh, I was a coach for basketball and football at a couple of schools. Uh, I'm also, uh, uh, one of the, um, Let's see, what did he

00:24:06.469 - 00:24:32.140

say, on the committee at the Baptist ministers Union. Uh, the Urban League, the, uh, The uh concerned clergy. Um, And some others. Now, I know, uh, the Bible College, uh, faculty is important to you. Uh, why do you think that that is so important today and

00:24:32.140 - 00:24:54.050

in our times, uh, that you, uh, you know, uh, helping people to receive and to preach? Ideally, I don't, me personally. I'm not working for the present and for me. Uh, I Well, I'll just say I don't get a salary. So it's a cause and it's

00:24:54.050 - 00:25:10.469

a love work. And these young people need to be properly trained. Because if they're not, they, they go off in all kinds of religions. Religion is one thing, Christianity is another thing. And and as a result of it, they don't have a solid, sound biblical background

00:25:10.729 - 00:25:30.640

and especially these young men going into the ministry. You need all of the Christian education you can get and that preparation and uh instead of uh well, some of this, some of er A lot of us in so many cases, I think these young men especially

00:25:30.640 - 00:25:47.280

getting in trouble because if they don't have a proper understanding of doctrine and of theology and and and philosophy, they don't have an understanding, uh, it's good to have an understanding of the original language, Greek and Hebrew. You don't have to, but the main thing they

00:25:47.280 - 00:26:02.349

need the academic training. And preparation because the Pew is an educated Pew today in many cases, but they also need a proper relationship with God and the Holy Spirit. So that they're not getting their words, they shouldn't be preaching their word, they shouldn't be preaching God's

00:26:02.349 - 00:26:17.920

word. And so they need that preparation. Even if and then and then even if you're not going to the ministry, you still need to know uh uh uh the word of God. And you still need to know how to properly apply it and to interpret it.

00:26:18.989 - 00:26:34.609

And so you can tell in many cases in Sunday school we got a lot of philosophizing and opinionizing. And and making our own rules and that's where we get in a lot of trouble. And then another thing is these young boys, these young boys who the

00:26:34.630 - 00:26:50.180

the worst thing we've got to deal with right now, one of the worst things is that our young boys going to prison before they are old enough to to be real men. And so we need that. We need we need Christian, they need to be changed

00:26:50.180 - 00:27:07.660

by the power of God and they need to know that they have a purpose to live for. They need a purpose and and and and and and and they need and they need to develop their talents and utilize it, er, for self-satisfaction, God glorification, and in

00:27:07.660 - 00:27:24.900

the community. We need to, like Jesse Jackson said, we need to keep hope alive. Uh, now, in keeping hope alive. Uh, and just living, right, uh, we're gonna take you back to growing up in Kansas City. Uh, what do you know about, uh, what would you

00:27:24.900 - 00:27:42.540

like to share? About maybe 18th and Vine and having a little fun um as a youngster. What was fun times for you when you were growing up? Well, they had a song out about 18th and Vine. I mean it, it, it, it was the lower life.

00:27:43.760 - 00:28:04.540

It was like, can any good thing come out of vine? I was raised up on 24th and Vine. And uh, well, see. I, I didn't, I, I didn't know about this poverty business as such, and, uh, because, because it was like family. Everybody, middle class, local,

00:28:04.619 - 00:28:24.180

whatever you say, we're all family, and it was a wonderful camaraderie. In some ways we have lost, you know, see there's a plus and minus of almost everything, right? So as a result, there are some things that we've lost in the mix of integration. There are

00:28:24.180 - 00:28:43.040

some things that we've gained. But that community was it it was broken up so to speak, as a result of integration. But, but it was a wonderful experience because then back then we didn't have to, we didn't have to close our doors. We we slept out

00:28:43.040 - 00:28:58.689

in the yard and and everybody's family and you could correct your, you know, the the one family could correct your children, you know, and uh and and we tried to keep up with one another. We tried to help one another. And uh we knew the people

00:28:58.689 - 00:29:13.069

who were problems and the people who weren't. So it was a more familiarity and uh and I'll never forget the Wen Phillips, especially during the Christmas holiday, everybody come in the hallways and all that and sing the carols and it was just a wonderful experience. It

00:29:13.069 - 00:29:32.469

was an experience of belonging. And today, in some cases like like like like in some of the businesses that I was in, I was the only black. And I was alone and I learned. To, um, To, uh, to, to what is it, uh, communicate with the

00:29:32.469 - 00:29:50.500

people in spite of, but there was something missing. Even when I went to Grayson in Omaha, Nebraska, I was, uh, I was the only when Reverend Briscoe and his wife, I was the only black there. It was something missing. See, I, I appreciate my ethnicity. See,

00:29:50.579 - 00:30:07.979

there's unity and diversity. And so, but, but, but that was a wonderful experience and uh it's been lost. Now, uh, one of the things that's going to happen to the Westport community is it might vanish and might be lost. It's almost vanished. What were, what do

00:30:07.979 - 00:30:32.079

you recall as being some unique things about, uh, Saint Luke's and Westport? Well, one of the, the unique thing about it was I hated to see it close. I don't think it had to be. When I was there, the majority race and group wanted to buy

00:30:32.079 - 00:30:49.000

that church. And I'm a real estate broker. But I would not do that. The only way I would have done it is that 100% of the members wanted to move, and they didn't want to move. And that was one of those areas where we call it

00:30:49.000 - 00:31:14.000

black settlement, like Leeds. I think that we need a Christian church on every corner. We've got liquor stores on every corner, almost, you know, we've got other other unethical things on the corners, and in many cases, er, other other people come into our neighborhood. And, and

00:31:14.000 - 00:31:33.500

sell their words and leave. And don't help develop the community through positive education. I'm talking about, you know, there's always a few, you know, it's just like Marian Anderson, some, some white person helped her, you know, and sponsored her, so I'm not saying I'm not putting

00:31:33.500 - 00:31:51.119

anybody down, I'm just talking about realism. Um, but I hated that. It didn't have to be. And the other church down at the corner, they tried to do the same thing. The Baptist Church, I'm gonna preach that Sunday, Saint James Baptist, I'm gonna preach that Sunday.

00:31:51.819 - 00:32:07.910

And they want to get that. They want all the property and they got all the property around it, it's just that little church that's left there. And so, er, that's, I think it's terrible. Well, uh, 11 of the things that is happening is, uh, we, we

00:32:07.910 - 00:32:27.780

call it progress, but Saint Luke's has become a great institution in the community, uh, and it was there when you were preaching. Yes, sir. Uh, did many members of your church, uh, work, uh, at Saint Luke's? Uh, well, some did, some did, OK. Uh, uh, what

00:32:27.780 - 00:32:44.390

do you think, uh, is there something that, uh, Saint Luke's might be able to do to help memorialize that community at this time? Sure, it is. You know, Americans do what they want to do. And, and, and I think it's such a rich history that we

00:32:44.390 - 00:33:01.550

ought to not forget. That is called Saint Luke was a historical church. You know, when they came from across the river and everything, they came to, came to uh uh what is it they came to uh Uh, I'm trying to think it's, I used to pass

00:33:01.550 - 00:33:19.280

it over that 17th and Bellevue on the west side, and you know, they come to West side and then they come to Saint Luke and Westport, you know, that's a rich history. Now, uh, and they didn't have to sell it. Because it was and it was

00:33:19.280 - 00:33:44.189

because of some of the some of the church politics and greedy officers, that's the reason they sold it. Um, When we think about um uh the things that's going in on our community uh and people who have uh been stakeholders uh who would you say, uh,

00:33:44.199 - 00:34:11.590

were some people that inspired you to want to get an education, uh, to be, um, a self-righteous person and to do good. Well, not self-righteous, but My My, my, my, My mother was the inspiration, mainly, but my mother didn't tell me to go to college, but

00:34:11.590 - 00:34:35.399

I was inspired by her and when I was in the service, I made up my mind that I was going. And uh well well Miss. Reese Williams was another person uh who encouraged me. Um, those are the two main people. So I just, I just You

00:34:35.399 - 00:34:47.090

know, I didn't have any money. I didn't have, I didn't have nothing. I had no place to stay. I had no books. I had nothing. But I had determination and faith. When I was at the University of Nebraska, I I didn't even have a scholarship. I

00:34:47.090 - 00:35:05.570

didn't, I wasn't even admitted. I didn't have no place to stay, no money, nothing but books, nothing. But I just had determination and faith. And uh I think when I did this this nice gentleman let me, you know, in and uh And, and I didn't even

00:35:05.570 - 00:35:25.120

have the approval of the GI Bill. Uh, and I remember I had, when I started, I had about Maybe $5. That was a breakfast, lunch, and that that finally ran out. And um and some of the members of Bethel Amy Church sent me cake and stuff

00:35:25.120 - 00:35:44.330

like that. And that's how I made it. And uh so I, I just, you know, I just, I wanted to be educated. I, I didn't want also I didn't want, I didn't want to hear what, what, what the, I didn't want to know what the Bible

00:35:44.330 - 00:36:01.689

said from my mother, my parents, my friend, whoever. I wanted to know for myself. And I just, I just had the desire to be educated. Uh, and, uh, and I went to several places. I went, I went to the University of Colorado. I didn't have any

00:36:01.689 - 00:36:18.969

money. I had no transportation, no money, no tours, nothing. And uh When I went to the University of I didn't have none. I think Reverend Briscoe gave me about $50 or something like that. When I went to Colorado, I don't know how I got there. And

00:36:18.969 - 00:36:38.050

then I'd sit in the class, no books, no nothing, no place to stay. Somebody put some money in my box. And to this day, they didn't want me to know who it was. See, there's power in a made up mind. If you got a made up

00:36:38.050 - 00:37:02.370

mind and you got faith, nothing can stop you but you. Several, uh, years or many years ago, probably before you had the opportunity to preach in, uh, Westport, Forty-third Street, uh, terrace was called Steptoe. Did you ever hear any people talk about living on steps on

00:37:02.370 - 00:37:21.439

the street? No. Or the streets, uh, just in general, uh, about, uh, the good times, the happy times, uh, living in Westport. Well, they talked about the happy times, you know, and, and it was a good, good experience. I remember going in, they had uh they

00:37:21.439 - 00:37:37.370

had uh the yard parties and all that stuff, you know, and I enjoyed it. A matter of fact, I, I just You know, I just like life, and I like to see people getting together and having a good time and being friendly toward each other. And

00:37:37.370 - 00:37:56.389

I remember um. I remember, uh, hm, can't think of a name right now, but. Uh, she, she, she had a good, a lovely home, and uh we had the fellowship there and, and all the lawn and, and she gave donations to the church. I can't think

00:37:56.389 - 00:38:21.540

of her name now. But she was one of the historical people. But I love Westport. I love the people. Well, is there something, uh, The doctor that you would like to, uh. Uh, express your thoughts on that I have mentioned, uh, that really would, uh, help

00:38:21.540 - 00:38:42.149

in this celebration of, uh, of, uh, reunions that are gonna follow or that could be coming up soon or later, uh, that you would just like to say about, uh, the Westport area in Kansas City. Well, I think it's a wonderful thing. For people to get

00:38:42.149 - 00:39:05.120

together and to celebrate and to remember their history. Much of the history that we have with blacks is oral history. And I'm a majority race. Write up our history. And getting wealthier from it. And I think we should do more of writing up our own history.

00:39:06.580 - 00:39:25.679

And uh finding people of goodwill who will help us publish it. Because we we have a lot of a lot of uh experiences that have never been told. All of us got some rich stories to tell, how we got over. But my thing is, Regardless of

00:39:25.679 - 00:39:57.409

racism, it's a damnable thing. Hate is terrible. But don't get bitter, get better. Keep hope alive. And love never fails. On a personal note, would you like to say anything about the, uh, about the great accomplishments of, uh, of your wife and children? Well, I'm just

00:39:57.409 - 00:40:23.909

thankful. My daughter has been teaching school now for Uh, I think over 16 years. And uh they. It's, it's more of a, it's a cause to them. It's, it's a mission for them. And my wife, uh, who I've been married to now, August 23rd, 48 years.

00:40:25.070 - 00:40:55.389

She loves teaching. And we are still through them, helping raise other children. And giving them scholarships. And uh right now, my, my daughter took a group of children along with her son. To the state fair. And so, Um, We just keep serving. And we just keep

00:40:55.389 - 00:41:14.219

trying to let, especially the black children know, all children, but especially our children know. That they can make a difference. And they can make a contribution because they have been created by God to do that. And so we try to train them the way they should

00:41:14.219 - 00:41:34.100

go. That's the best I can say. Well, well, Doctor Council, I wanna, uh, thank you for your time, and I, every time I talk to you, I always learn from you, uh. You know, I, I don't uh at the, at our meetings we always talk about

00:41:34.100 - 00:41:50.550

the, the great prayer that, uh, uh, you, uh, give. In fact, I don't know if this could be a part of what we're doing, but, uh, as we celebrate, what kind of, uh, prayer would you like to maybe say at this time to, uh, That would

00:41:50.550 - 00:42:13.820

be on, on record. Well, I would just say I would thank God for this day. Because he's brought us a mighty long way. I thank God for you and for your contribution because you're history too. And uh and I just hope that uh That we'll continue

00:42:13.820 - 00:42:39.300

to celebrate our history, because this is very important. And never forget how we got over. But also To love people, to like people. And to do good for our enemies. Because God has given us a 2nd chance, 3rd chance, 4th chance. And he never leaves us

00:42:39.300 - 00:42:48.909

alone. And you can't beat God-given. Amen. Thank you.