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As is executive director of the Black Archives in Mid-America, this morning, I'm interviewing Mr. Wilbert Goodsell. Today's date is September 29th or is it 30th September 30th, 1976. The time is 9:11 a.m. Good morning, Mr. Goodsell. Good morning. First of all, what's your full name? Wilbur

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Goodsell. No middle initials. Uber D. What's the D? Dean. Dean. All right. Where were you born? In Chinute, Kansas. What year? 1930. 1930. Um, in a hospital? Yes. What was the name of the hospital? Shanu Hospital. Shenu Hospital. Chinut's a very small town, so everything is

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either Chanu High School, Hospital. Um-hum. Uh, do you have brothers and sisters? Yes, I'm the youngest of 6. Um-hum. And your, um, mother, your mother and father, what are their names? Fred Goodsell and Mary Goodselle. And they're both deceased. But, what year did they pass? Well,

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let's see. My mother's been dead about, 8 years, 8 or 9 years, my father, 4 years before that. Mhm, um. How long did you live in Chanute? Until I finished high school. And what were, what elementary school did you attend? Cross Elementary and Roosevelt Elementary. Do

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you remember what your principal's name was at the elementary school? I certainly can't. Either one of them. Of T, I, I remember Mrs. Sayer was the principal at Cross and Mrs. Johnson was the principal at. at the other one. And at Roosevelt and in junior high

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school, which was Roycester Junior High School, Mr. Greg. Was the principal was the principal, uh, tell me something. Tell me what the, the events that most stands out as an elementary student to uh. Well, I guess theatrically as a 2nd grader. Uh, in our big Christmas

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production, I played Santa Claus. You played Santa Claus. All right, we were doing integrated theater then, um, Mrs. Santa Claus was the white girl that was in the class. Of course, we didn't realize it was integrated theater at the time. Uh, Also, I was the only

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black in the, in the school, so. It would have been integrated with me anyway one way or the other. Were you comfortable in a, in a, in a, um, non-integrated situation, right? I, I was very comfortable. I think I became more aware. Of, um, Differences after

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I became uh college age and, uh, late high school. What, what, what was the community that you lived in? What did it what was it composed of? Uh, the community was, um, total community. We had the white Americans, black Americans, Mexican-Americans in the particular neighborhood in

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which I lived, which was the south part of the city, uh, there were We were the only black family in that area. And most of the black families lived either on the east or north side of the city. Uh, what was, what was your, your father's

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occupation? Uh, he was involved in real estate. Mhm. Was he a salesman? No, in, um, selling and bonding this kind of thing, uh, both my, both my dad and mother were involved, um. Their families were some of the very first black families to settle. In Chinute,

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Kansas, my father's family came by covered wagon from Texas and my mother's family came and settled there when she was 8 from Jackson, Mississippi. And of course at the time they acquired property, uh, in the town. It was a very new town, booming town, and some

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of the property that they acquired in those early years became prime property in the city. Uh, the main parts of the city and things of this nature. Then your family wasn't, let's say then, was it? No. So, um, um, Which one of your brothers and sisters

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did you associate with if that was a good time? Uh, the brother that is 5 years older than I, which is an interesting family and that I told you I had 6 brothers and sisters. Um, I have 4 older brothers and sisters or had 4 older

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brothers and sisters, and my youngest sister of those older 4 is 20 years older than I am. So my older, my older brothers and sisters were all married and, and had families of their own when I was born. So you're the baby. Right, and so only

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the brother who is 5 years older than I was at home, and of course, of course, I identify more with him than any of the others. The others seemed like aunts and uncles until I became an adult. Because their children were in Kansas City. No, um,

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the remaining members of my family, I have a brother in San Francisco. Uh, a sister in Denver and a sister in Omaha. What type of, uh, student were you the last year? Uh, an honor student. Uh, I really was all the way through, all the way

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through, right. Or, uh, let's say in high school, what, what was your rank in your class, you think? Oh, I don't recall the rank. I can recall times being the only, Um, The only person at my grade level making the honor roll for that grade period

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type thing. Oh yeah, uh, uh, the, the integrated high school, did you have an integrated high school situation? Uh, what, what type of an impact did that have on you after, um, being virtually the only black person? You know, Well, I think the greatest impact came

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From um But when I came to Kansas City, it was just unusual for me to be in a Total segregated. Situation, it was a strange feeling. For instance, when I came here, the movies were not integrated. It was a strange feeling to go say like to

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the Lincoln Theater down on 18th Street and uh when the lights came on, everything you saw was black. It was or to go into a school and to see all black faces, all black children, all all black teachers. What year did you, uh, what did, was,

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was any type of repercussions, uh, from the impact of this? And not really, uh, there. Were often comments such as, uh, uh, you talk funny. Um, I had a lot of expressions that were not common to the black vernacular, uh, where blacks were going around saying,

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hey man this and hey dude, uh, we use the word guy, and I would say things like, uh, what are you guys doing? Where are you guys going? Everybody would look, everybody would look or um, I would be in a situation. Who was your best friend,

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um, in high school? I would say, uh, Berne Blackwood. Who is now a professor of speech and theater at uh in Springfield, Missouri at uh not Drury, what's the other college down there? Yeah, Drury College. Uh, his dad was also president of our school board. I

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would say, uh, Byrne was my very best friend. Um-hum. Um, the teacher that influenced you most in those three years, those three decades there, uh, elementary, uh, senior and junior high school, which one do you think left the greatest impact on you? I would think, uh,

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Miss Sarah Haller. Who was, oh, no, no, there's some more too. There are, there are really several. She was one. She was my English. A teacher. And um OK. I would say probably she had the greatest impact. Mhm. Who else? I can't think of her name.

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What, what grade level was it? Um, like 10th grade. A white-haired. And all your teachers were white at that particular time, right? Oh yes. Uh, have you, when you finally reached an integrated situation, uh, was the impact of your good education notable? Notable in what way?

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Well, I'm sure that if you went into an integrated situation at that particular time and all your, your, uh, uh, preliminary education at that point was in a, it was in a, was in a totally almost segregated situation that you had a much greater a better

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education than, than, than your, than your your counterparts. Well, perhaps that's true. I, I, I wouldn't have anything to compare there. I, I can say this going on to the university that I certainly didn't have The problems of adjustment and competition that I found on many

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of the black students coming out of totally black school situations such as Sumner and Lincoln High School, this kind of thing coming into the university in terms of adjustment. I didn't seem to face that kind of thing. To to this point, um, what were some of

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the, the key, Roles that you had played in theatrics up to high, this is up to the end of high school. Uh you were Santa Claus in your first role, right? Right. I remember, I remember another very vivid situation in, um, junior high school. Uh, I

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had been selected to, oh, they were doing a, um, A, a big benefit. And uh it was a minstrel show. I don't know if you know what a minstrel show is or not. And uh I guess a minstrel show really didn't mean that much to me

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at that time in terms of the implications and these kinds of things, but it was an all-school production and I had been selected to be one of the In men. Now, you know, in, uh, the, the format of a minstrel show they had the interlocutor who

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was usually a white person or symbolized a white person and the end men were the funny men who cracked the jokes and this was always done in blackface and wire wigs and all this kind of thing, right, uh, the exaggerated stereotype kind of thing like Eddie

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Cantor did. But Bert Williams also right right Burt Williams, who was black capitalized on that but nevertheless, uh, we went up until about Really, it was about a week before the production and the costumes arrived and it dawned on me, you know, that I was going

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to have to don this wire wig and wear all this dark makeup and as I started discussing it with my parents, my mother was quite disturbed and, uh, made an appearance at school and, um, made her stand, uh, in protest against, uh, oh yes. In fact,

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um, it's interesting, I was reading, I was back to my hometown this summer. We had, uh, a reunion of all former black students who had ever gone through Chanute High School, and I, you did identify with black people, even though you had this, this, oh yes,

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oh yes, excuse me. Oh yes, uh, well, I tell you, our, the biggest identification that we had was, uh, at the high school level because we had our own quote basketball team. And you played on that team? Right. All right. Uh, let me tell you how

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that came about. Um, Even at the junior high school level, we would go out, we'd make the team. I can always, I recall those days very vividly. Another friend of mine, Don Turner, and I made the team and, uh, Of course in a small town like

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that there were no other high schools in the city, so we played schools in the surrounding area and throughout the state and we never got to play because when we would run out on the court, uh, whistles would start blowing and the other teams, uh, manager

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or coach would call the team off the Floor and they would say such things to our coach that if those colored boys or those *** boys are going to play, we're not going to play the game. So we never got to play. We always sat on

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the bench. Well, this had been occurring for a number of years in that area, so In order to give the uh the black students uh this exposure, their own basketball team, which was called the Chinute Tigers was formed and we played other black high school teams

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from other cities in similar situations in that area of the. Did you have cars to come to Kansas City? Well, no, no, no, we have a school bus. OK, um, but the, the, all right, what's, what was your most important part? Before the end of high

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school, would you say then? And in a play a play and none because I think our high school was so conscious. Um, Not wanting to offend or they were so conscious of the stand that Blacks in the city would take against this kind of thing that

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uh they shied away from doing shows where there would be black characters because of thought in those days, unless you were integrated into a Uh, a cast, uh, the only type of places, uh, where with roles for blacks were the stereotype kinds of roles, such as

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maids and butlers and mammy mammy type things. So our school never did that kind of thing because I think they would, would feel the reaction from the city. Who, who were you watching at that particular time as an actor? Or did you have a, uh. Oh,

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I had all the traditional favorites such as Claudette Colbert and I have a Pinot and Clark Gable, you know, the typical kind of teenager. Idols, but what I wanted to say about the uh why it was so important that they uh the black uh residents of

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Chinute took a stand on, on schools. Way back in the 1800s at that time when the black settlers first came into Chinute and um there was an effort made to uh segregate the schools and, and in fact the school was actually built which was to have

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been designated as the black school in that town and the residents back in that time protested and refused to send, we talk about boycotts now and they refused to send the children to school and demanded. Uh, equal educational rights for their children since they were also

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paying taxes and, and that kept our towns were right and this was back in the 1800s when this was done so they've had this history all the way through of trying to, to fight this kind of segregation and discrimination. Like in my hometown, Kansas not ever

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being a slave state per se, I guess it just didn't want to tolerate anything of that nature, um, when you first saw the movie, uh, Gone with the Wind. I'm sure that that's when Car Cable really left a hell of an impression on you. What was

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your attitude in regards to, um, Butterfly McQueen, Chrissy? Uh, it's interesting, you know, but our, our theater brought her here. You introduced me to her, right, a couple of years ago, and that, um. I found it comical. I, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't find any

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resentment in it. Uh, it was the kind of thing with the Amos and Andy and the Man Pan Morelands and the, uh, what's the guy who used to be with Charlie Chan. And the stepping fetchets, uh, you must remember that at that time this was the

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only exposure that blacks had to many other, uh, blacks in the media. Uh, we didn't have our Diane Carrolls and our Sidney Poitiers and our Phil Wilsons and all these kinds of people to identify with, so. You accepted Paul Robeson, uh, roles were not the mammy

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or the really, right, but you didn't see, uh, you didn't have that much exposure to Paul Robeson, uh, through TV. Well, it wasn't TV, but through, I don't did Paul Robeson make a movie. If he did, it wasn't that. Distributed as much, you know that that's

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a whole different era. Paul, the Paul Robinson's and Marian Anderson's as far as the concerts take, but what you were exposed to in the movies were just this, these handful of black, uh, actors that were limited and restricted to the stereotype kinds of roles, and it

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was a part of our lifestyle. Uh, we accepted it, we laughed with it, and I think this has been one of the stabilizing factors in, in Blacks' lifestyle is being able to laugh. And ourselves and our problems and our predicaments, I think this has been one

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of the sustaining things for us as a black people. I don't think we would have ever been able to survive slavery and many of these things if we weren't able to laugh. Your most impressive play to me is, uh, your role as the mayor in Days

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of Absence. Now, we're doing an excerpt of that at Crown Center Saturday night at the Black. I wanna see that. I got a few. Oh, right, all right, um. As since, since a good actor, uh, becomes a part. I, I think he becomes the individual that

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uh he is uh um. Interpreting more or less what is your attitude when the mirror is laughed at or, or, or, or when you play a black character because the mirror is not a black in play, but when you play a black character, what is your

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attitude when whites laugh. Well, now, wait a minute, let's go back. You must remember now the, the kind of black theater that's being done now, uh, the characters are very real, um. They're not the stereotype kinds of black characters that we think of as Step and

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Fetchet type of things. They're very real characters, so you would think that they're laughing because the situation is funny. They're not laughing at the character because it's a stereotype character, but they're laughing because the situation or the actions are funny, like Doctor Dudley Stanton. I played

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that role in the River ***. He certainly wasn't a stereotype. A black character or played a stereotyped black role, so when people, when the audience laughed, white or black, they were laughing because of the situation that he was involved with or the comments that he made.

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Which is different than if you're laughing at something that's uh shuffling, eyeball rolling, head scratching type. What what's it like being a uh being the producer, black producer in Kansas City? Knowing that you have to be terribly creative, you have to use very limited resources. Uh,

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and the, and the, and the plays that you're dealing with are of the controversial nature that they are. And how do I feel right now? Uh, What, what, what, what impact is that having on little Lucial? Oh, I do it, uh, I enjoy it, um. I

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think the impact is that there's a satisfaction in knowing. That, uh, you're making a successful attempt or at least you're making an attempt or that you're doing something positive toward, uh, developing an interest and awareness in theater, especially in the black community in the inner city,

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and that you're making a, a contribution, a cultural contribution to the total, uh, Kansas City area. As a director, have you ever been threatened? Physically or anything. No. Well, uh, has the criticism not been favorable? Oh, yes, we have a lot of unfavorable criticism, uh, not

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to the art, but to the content of the plays. Right. Um-hum. Uh, I think this comes primarily, especially from our black patrons in their lack of exposure to live theater. Uh, and this has been one of our, our really concerns is, and, and really one of

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our main objectives is to develop this interest and, uh, well, for instance, we had a delegation from one of our prominent black sororities that came up to opening night of ceremonies in Dark Old Men, which is a very beautiful show, um, they were previewing this because

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they are also involved in A, a year, a yearly activity involving young women in the city. And uh they were considering this as an activity to bring these young women and their parents to, uh, but because of some of the content of the play they felt

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that it would be too controversial. To me, I think this is a false uh kind of uh. Behavior that we're finding on many uh among many of our black patrons, especially our, our so-called middle-class blacks, is that they're not really to, not willing to accept theater,

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um. As reality. Uh, they will object to. Uh, any kind of, you say damn, uh, this is objectionable. Well, let me ask you this symbolism, since symbolism plays a, uh, one heck of a, a role in, um. What's, what's, what's the play, um, in this. ***.

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In River ***. Right. Uh, uh, do you feel that, that you're always getting the point over the people? I think we get the point over, yes. Uh, I think now where we, where we don't always get the point over is too many of our white patrons

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because, you know, black drama is written by black playwrights and for black people and involves black situations and, and many whites are, are not into. Uh, the black lifestyle and many things pass over their heads. Um, That was one of the lines that uh One of

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the lines that I can remember, I don't know if it's from a play, but it's, I think a good illustration is that what a, a, a black cat jumped on his back. And it was talking on the phone, uh, uh, uh, the white person was not

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able to deal with it, and the first thing he thought of was actually a black cat jumping or something. Can you give me an illustration like that um. Well, I'm thinking of, um, a play that we did that's, that's, that's a counterpart to Day of Absence.

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It's called Happy Ending, where, um, this is about some domestics who work for a very wealthy, uh, white family and, um, The idea, and I'm, I'm sure you're aware of this, that this, this maintained many black families and it's still maintaining many black families because of

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uh the male part working for a wealthy white family and how they uh utilize this to their advantage. In many situations, you know, they pay the bills, they order the food, they do all these things and and so, and in doing this, they're taking care of

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their family too. Uh, the white I think that they're uh taking advantage of the black because they're paying them very low wages, you know, they have a maid that they pay $10 or $15 a week, uh, but the maid is getting her salary, but she's also,

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uh, you see them with their big bags going home. They have steaks, they have, uh, the best liquors, all of these kinds of things and so who is taking advantage of who? And I know many white audiences when they see this play, they get really confused

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what's going on, you know. And of course to blacks, it's they'll they'll laugh in lines that with a predominantly white audience will just pass over the names. I'm gonna give you some names. Tell me in 5 words or less what they mean to you. Garden Parks

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Senior. Well, I think that Gordon is a, a writer and producer and of course I identify um uh the, not the bad seed, um. Uh, the Learning Tree with him, you know, that was filmed in Fort Scott, Kansas. He grew up right near my hometown. Fort

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Scott is like 25 or 30 miles from here. Have you met him before? Never have. OK. Uh, Garden Park Junior. Well, the same way I identify with him with some of his roles as an actor. What do you think of Superfly? I think Superfly, and I

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think that a lot of criticism has been aimed towards Superfly and some of these um comeback Charleston Blue and some of these kinds of, some people have called them exploitative type black movies, but I think it's just like in any society that we have. Various levels

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and this is what theater and acting is all about, to reflect reality and we have our superflies, you see them every day when you go down the street with their Cadillacs and their big hats. So. OK. Sounders is a very true, uh, heartwarming story about a

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country black family, which is very true. Let me go back again to some of this criticism, uh, when we had things like Julia on TV and Guess who's coming in, there was criticism against him because he says Julia doesn't reflect the true black lifestyle. What is

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the true black lifestyle? We go all the way up the continuum from the Superflies to the Julia and the guests who come in to dinner and all. So one show. The, the Redd Foxx Show, uh, Happy Times, all of these things that we're seeing. One show

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cannot possibly reflect the total black experience. So we have to look at each show in a different light and that it's reflecting one phase of black society. In which direction do you think that, uh, black theater will be going in the future? Well, it's already, it's

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moving, you know, when black playwrights really started producing people like Ed Bullens and, uh, uh, Leroy Jones, everything was very, very militant, very explosive, and now, uh, it's, it's, it's tindering down and we're getting stories of plays like Sounder, uh, The Sty and the Blind Pig,

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um. Uh, the one that was just recently done on TV, I can't remember the name of it, where the family went back to the South, just human. What about Van Peebles? What does that mean to you? Uh, well, that's the interesting thing, to show the contrast.

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Van Peebles is the one that wrote this TV show that was done, oh, about a month ago with Cicely Tyson where the family just went back and revisited the South, a very heartwarming, tender. play about family and their, and their relationships. And yet a few years

00:29:36.359 - 00:29:58.189

ago, he did the very explosive things like um um Ain't supposed to die a natural death.we bag. What, what, what, what has been some of your favorite, um, movies over the last couple of years, um, black oriented movies, would you say? Of course, sounder and of

00:29:58.189 - 00:30:13.469

course it wasn't really a movie, it was a TV special. Uh, the diary of Miss Jane Pitman was just a beautiful thing. Why do you think Soundra was just a TV special? Why, why do you say that? Sounder wasn't Sounder a movie? Yeah, uh-huh, no, but

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I meant, I meant, uh, Diary of Miss Jane Peper was a TV, which was a little movie made for TV. Uh, those were two of my favorites, and I really liked Mandingo. No, I wasn't, I didn't like um. The sequel to that, um, drum, you were

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saying, uh, that, uh, we are planning our, our November show or our next show, uh, uh, mid-season show is, um. Ain't supposed to die a natural death, which is very innovative kind of um. Uh, explosive type of thing by van people and we're coming back in

00:30:53.670 - 00:31:16.430

the spring with. Uh, uh, a quieter type show, the cool breeze of summer, and I think we'll continue to offer a variety, uh. To a theater group here in Gainesville. Um, then you intend on like maintaining the facility at the then with multi-purpose center? No, we

00:31:16.430 - 00:31:33.199

hope, certainly, uh, we have visions of a theater of our own. Can I give you a little bit about our history of the black contemporary players and how it began, um, I would like to go back even further than that if I may. Hm. All right.

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When I first came to Kansas City in the early 50s, the only Black. Uh theatrical group in the city was the Morrison Players. I don't know if you've heard of them before. And the Morrison Players had been a very active group for a number of years.

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I think they started out, oh, somewhere in the late 30s or 40s. Mr. Morrison was um a speech and drama teacher at Lincoln High School. I did not know him, but he began this group primarily with um A nucleus of students that were his, uh, at

00:32:09.459 - 00:32:27.219

Lincoln High School and then as they came back into the community, they worked with him. But, uh, and, uh, so I worked with that group for several years, but what the Morrison players did was just traditional white plays with a black cast. We did things like

00:32:27.219 - 00:32:44.239

You Can't Take It with You. Uh, I remember the night of January 16th where Bruce Watkins played the judge. Uh, we did The Bad Seed, all the traditional, uh, kinds of plays that were done just with a black cast. Of course, at that time there were

00:32:44.239 - 00:33:07.500

very few, uh, black plays as such, so we just took white plays and did them as they were written, only it was black characters. Um, there were a number of us, John Carter, for instance, who, uh, is now managing editor of KPRS. Um, Carmelita Williams, used

00:33:07.500 - 00:33:26.459

to be Carmelita Kimber, some of the, we were younger then coming into, in our early twenties, and, um, there was a lot of conflict between us and some of the older groups because of they were still doing those staid kinds of, um. Uh, standard kinds of

00:33:26.459 - 00:33:40.400

things that they've been doing, and we were, we had been to universities and, and John had studied in New York and we were seeing a lot of these innovative things that were creeping in, but they wanted to maintain this, but, and they were getting older, um.

00:33:41.040 - 00:33:55.359

Uh, Colonel, uh, Gates, who is still around, uh, was very active as director of that group, but their leadership was getting old and they were getting kind of tired, so they fizzled out for so for many years there, there was a void, there was no black

00:33:55.359 - 00:34:15.638

theater, and those of us who were interested in theater had to attach ourselves to other theatrical groups in the city, uh, resident theater, Jewish Community Center, um. Other, uh, the Tommy Hawk players, all of these, but again we were limited in the kinds of roles we

00:34:15.638 - 00:34:34.350

could do. I worked with the Circle Theater, which was Kansas City's only professional theater at that time at Union Station, and we did things like, um. For instance, I played the soothsayer in Julius Caesar. Uh, I played Jack in the Death of Bessie Smith, uh, these

00:34:34.350 - 00:34:55.659

kinds of things. At that time, there was a community theater group called, um, Coach House Players which was a part of the Unitarian Church. And uh they put out a call for auditions for uh James Baldwin's play Blues for Mr. Charlie, which acquired a large number

00:34:55.659 - 00:35:15.409

of black actors and actresses. So many of us who were interested in theater auditioned for that show. And it was one of their most successful shows and was, uh, continued, uh, in fact, it was extended and we remained with that group, uh, for several seasons and

00:35:15.550 - 00:35:31.685

I would say we were Kansas City's first integrated theater in terms of the kinds of shows we did and the roles that we did. Uh, Joanne Collins, who is our councilwoman. And now uh worked with us there. I remember was that Charlie and Cressida. She's done,

00:35:31.804 - 00:35:52.370

she did another play with you. Oh, that was Amen Corner. That was part of the Black Contemporary players, but this was as part of Coach House, um. And this is where the nucleus of the black contemporary players met Roy Terrell, Alonzo Jamison, Joanne Carroll, myself, Lloyd

00:35:52.370 - 00:36:11.189

Johnson, Emmett Tucker. We met as uh members of the coach house troupe. And of course at this time, this was in the middle late 60s, this is when we were getting into our black movement and we felt as uh actors that certainly black theater had a

00:36:11.189 - 00:36:29.770

role to play in this total movement and black involvement. So we pulled away from Coach House and formed our own theatrical group and that's when the black contemporary players were born. What year was that? That was in 1968. And uh what was your first play? Our

00:36:29.770 - 00:36:54.060

first play was um. I believe it was Day of absence and then we followed that with uh the leader and Amen Corner. Now in those days, now remember we had nothing. We had no backing, we had no theater, we just had Uh, determination, but we were

00:36:54.060 - 00:37:13.699

organized, we were incorporated, uh, as a nonprofit organization, and for, I would say about the 1st 4 years we were primarily a touring company and we toured all over the Midwest. We played every major university and college in the area, KU, K State, Emporia, Pittsburgh, Oklahoma,

00:37:13.860 - 00:37:39.469

U, Parkville, you name it. Um And uh we performed occasionally in town by renting usually Sumner High School or leading high school stage. Then we were quite fortunate when the lingual multipurpose Center. Open in uh over on Lynnwood, we were asked to become their theater in

00:37:39.469 - 00:38:00.189

residence, and we are now, uh, into our fourth season as a theater in residence there. Uh, I would say the next phase of our development, hopefully, uh, and I don't know how soon this would be, but we are thinking toward the day when we will have

00:38:00.189 - 00:38:18.149

a theater of our own, uh, perhaps even, um, a professional type theater with a paid staff and these kinds of things if we can acquire certain kinds of grants and support. And this thing to do it. How would that enhance the uh production of your plays

00:38:18.149 - 00:38:37.479

and stuff? I think it would enhance it tremendously because all of us, I've named some of the people involved. Joanne Collins, you know how busy she is, councilwoman running for, uh, Congress now, uh, myself, I'm involved in my profession. All of our people who are involved

00:38:37.479 - 00:38:57.250

in the black uh contemporary players. Uh, have their own professions, their own, uh, jobs that they must maintain, and what the time and service that we give to the theater is strictly on a volunteer basis. And having, having a full-time staff would certainly eliminate many of

00:38:57.250 - 00:39:22.919

the pressures and, uh, would certainly help to organize, uh, the troupe more and give. Constant direction where of course our professions and jobs come first. Tell me a little bit about, um, your professional acting career. Um, you were in a movie, um, Bucktown, Bucktown, right, right.

00:39:23.080 - 00:39:43.500

Tell me about that a little bit. What happened? Well, we're our, our, our troupe, uh, since we are, uh, the primary black performing troupe in the city, we're contacted constantly for, uh, actors and I I was just recently when, um, uh, uh, Godfrey Cambridge was here

00:39:43.500 - 00:40:00.830

doing Cola Coup at Tiffany's, uh, they needed, uh, someone to go on for him because he was ill. I got a call here wanting to know if anyone in our troupe was available. Uh, we had an understudy for, uh, Butterfly McQueen when she was here doing

00:40:00.830 - 00:40:19.949

Pearly. Um, just recently we had 3 of our people doing the Great White Hope at the university. Uh, so we're always contacted for this kind of thing. Um, TV commercials. One of our people, if you see the big Kansas City Chiefs billboard that's up now with

00:40:19.949 - 00:40:37.300

a black face, that's one of our black contemporary people. So we're often called on, uh, for these kinds of things. So this happened when, uh, the filming of Bucktown was coming here that we were contacted for auditions. Have you thought in terms of Broadway? Myself? No.

00:40:37.709 - 00:40:54.659

Have you, have you, have you been on Broadway? Oh yes, I go to New York. No, as an actor. Oh, no. No, to me, acting is an avocation. Uh, this is my main profession, speech, hearing, and language. Uh, I, I would encourage younger people. There are

00:40:54.659 - 00:41:15.959

a couple of people who have worked with us and are working with us now who are seriously considering, uh, acting as a full-time profession. Who, who are they? Uh, Michael Brown, who studied in New York last year. Um, Uh, Granville O'Neal, like June Terrell, is she?

00:41:16.360 - 00:41:31.159

No, and Gloria's a very fine person. Yeah, she's a very fine actress, but I don't think she's looking at it as a total profession. This is something you kind of have to jump into and, and fight your way up, unless you just have to get discovered

00:41:31.159 - 00:41:45.260

all of a sudden. But, uh, I think for young people just starting out, it's a great, but of course when I came along. Uh, I, well, I didn't have that much interest in acting as a career, but the, uh, certainly the opportunities were more limited. What

00:41:45.260 - 00:42:06.770

does your wife think about having an actor now? I think that uh she tolerates it. Uh, it's, it's very time-consuming. She enjoys, uh, The kinds of things that we do because of that, she doesn't always like some of the time that it involves away from the

00:42:06.770 - 00:42:20.995

family. You have a daughter, right? Right. Well, what's your wife's name? Charlotte. Charlotte, and your, your daughter Lynn. Yes, she's. What does she think of the theater? I think she loves it. Uh, she did a little theater when she was here since she's been in college.

00:42:21.114 - 00:42:39.159

She's really been involved. She's done children's theater in Saint Louis. Uh, she's done some musicals there and, uh. So she does have an interest and she likes theater. I think this is part of it, just being exposed and liking theater as a cultural art is kind

00:42:39.159 - 00:43:00.669

of enrichment. Uh, what is your, um, your responsibilities with the Kansas City School District? I'm supervisor of speech, hearing, and language services. What does that entail? This involves, uh, our speech therapy staff, which works with children with speech handicaps. It involves our deaf and hard of

00:43:00.669 - 00:43:24.209

hearing staff, uh, which works with children with hearing and. Impairments and losses. Our language development program is, um, a specially designed program for inner-city children in our Title One schools in terms of developing a standard language usage skills. And then we also have a delayed language

00:43:24.209 - 00:43:49.620

program for youngsters who are severely uh delayed in speech and language acquisition. And how long have you been in that capacity? Uh, as supervisor of the total program, this is my 2nd year. As supervisor of the language program, this is my 12th year. Were you ever

00:43:49.620 - 00:44:13.860

in the classroom? Not as a classroom teacher. I, uh, was a speech therapist for many years and then, um, what school? Practically all of the black schools that were black schools at that time, Lincoln High School, Emmanuel, Central, Booker T. Washington, 1952 is when I began.

00:44:15.340 - 00:44:33.120

Addicts, the old Sumner Elementary. Phillips. I'd like to thank you for this interview, Mr. Gibson. Well, it's been interesting, and I think, uh, the Black Archives is really doing a community service by providing, uh, this kind of service to the community. I hope that the community

00:44:33.120 - 00:44:46.949

takes advantage of, uh, this service, and I'd like to know how one goes about. Uh Let me close out the tape first. All right. Thank you, Mr. Goodale.